4runner on road traction control... or lack there of!

[Zeusmotorworks]

As I feared, we went for a test ride (extremely mild) and because "the light on the dash came on, it seems to be working". However, at my insistence they still have it and are going to plug it in and see if they find anything. Will post up any or no findings later this afternoon.

 

[tired_old_dave]

Thanks for the update. We are all pulling for you. Your outcome will carry a lot of weight in my decision. The 4runner is inexpensive for what you get when looking at the price of new vehicles. However, hopefully Mr. Toyoda is improving not only the vehicles but also all the dealerships. I have expanded my vehicles to consider.

I had a little abs action in the H3 but the wife with her extremely low miles Latitude HP on the GX had no issue in the recent downpours here. While at the dealership, ask what oil they use. I asked for Toyota 0w20 from quart bottles after hearing noise about 5w30 and Valvoline made to Toyota specs. This was prompted by the Bitog thread - is Toyota oil made in heaven.

 

[Zeusmotorworks]

Well, as I suspected, they could find nothing wrong with it. I'm not completely put out yet as listening to the Wife describe the incidents to the Service Person, there were some details that were not as clearly dictated to the husband (me). Being that she could/can control wheel spin on a 500whp rally car and a 174whp 425lb motorcycle, I think she may have been subconsciously feathering the throttle in her up hill scenario (negating TRAC) and may have not stepped out as much as she originally thought in the fish tail scenario being that this is the first 2WD experience she's had in almost 15 years. Regardless, I will be driving it next time rain is in the forecast and will be trying my damnedest to get it to act up. If it does, it's gone simple as that. If not, she may have to "let the electronics work". If that is the case, we'll decide if she's going to rewire her software or move on.

 

[1engineer]

Well, as I suspected, they could find nothing wrong with it. I'm not completely put out yet as listening to the Wife describe the incidents to the Service Person, there were some details that were not as clearly dictated to the husband (me). Being that she could/can control wheel spin on a 500whp rally car and a 174whp 425lb motorcycle, I think she may have been subconsciously feathering the throttle in her up hill scenario (negating TRAC) and may have not stepped out as much as she originally thought in the fish tail scenario being that this is the first 2WD experience she's had in almost 15 years. Regardless, I will be driving it next time rain is in the forecast and will be trying my damnedest to get it to act up. If it does, it's gone simple as that. If not, she may have to "let the electronics work". If that is the case, we'll decide if she's going to rewire her software or move on.

I find it hard to believe that if she (or you) can drive a rally car to it's full potential that a little wheelspin or fishtail would be any big deal. This vehicle is almost impossible for even a 16 yo girl talking on a cell phone while putting on makeup to get out of shape on slick roads. This is my 3rd year of driving on slick and snow covered roads so I have personal experience with trying to get it to slide. Yes, hold the button down for 3 seconds and you can make more doughnuts than Krispy Kreme. Otherwise, it goes where you point it. To each their own though. You don't have to wait for it to rain just find a dirt or sand road and have at it. Better yet, get a bag of play sand and put it on your driveway for several feet in front of your rear wheels. Nail it and it should try to spin, then cut the throttle and apply brakes to the spinning wheel all in an eye blink.

 

[Zeusmotorworks]

The spin/fish tail is not the "big deal", the fact that it was not supposed to happen is the real issue at hand and I'm sure I was not clear on that AT ALL. You are right... sideways and airborne is how the car spend much of it's life with us and is par for the course. I'd said I'd never by another 2WD vehicle again after going AWD with everything we had on four wheels. However, some of the FJ guys convinced me that the TRAC and VSC on the Toyotas was the greatest thing since sliced bread and we'd not miss the AWD/full time 4WD moving her to the part time 4WD 4runner. So that's the pisser for us with this. I have a old bag of Oil Dry (kitty litter) that I can throw under the truck tomorrow. Maybe I'm making excuses FOR Toyota... or just being too sensitive to the issue.

 

[tired_old_dave]

Prompted by your use of "pisser". I know the feeling. I reread post 31 by scanny two times. I recognize your experience level. But if you don't want to bail on your purchase, when you drive in the next monsoon and if you duplicate the issue, redo the test but engage 4x4 you won't bind the axles. If it prevents the event then try a hard stop to see if you slide. If you do slide I am guessing it's tires. I don't know the effects of the firmer stabilizers of the kdss. I could not slide the jeep with load range c duratracs but the noise and multiple tire belt failure moved me to kumho ( should've bought cooper). The duratracs never slid in the rain where the grabbers did. And high speed lane change in the rain was like dry pavement

And I also up tire pressures. The GX uses an H with 51max psi and I have hers at 6 above factory recommended 32. The H3 is 4 over at 39psi but it's 33"s are load range d since there is no load range c and I should probably lower to at least 35psi. I remember long ago reading that sustained high speed(over 65?) required increasing tire pressure.

On lexus forum and I believe here koz and others moved to lower speed rating and LT ms2 tires on their GX's.

 

[Bimmer-Bob]

Well, as I suspected, they could find nothing wrong with it. I'm not completely put out yet as listening to the Wife describe the incidents to the Service Person, there were some details that were not as clearly dictated to the husband (me). Being that she could/can control wheel spin on a 500whp rally car and a 174whp 425lb motorcycle, I think she may have been subconsciously feathering the throttle in her up hill scenario (negating TRAC) and may have not stepped out as much as she originally thought in the fish tail scenario being that this is the first 2WD experience she's had in almost 15 years. Regardless, I will be driving it next time rain is in the forecast and will be trying my damnedest to get it to act up. If it does, it's gone simple as that. If not, she may have to "let the electronics work". If that is the case, we'll decide if she's going to rewire her software or move on.

The first thing I thought when reading the OP is that she's not used to driving RWD. I suspect she's just giving it too much go pedal at the wrong time, despite your vouching for her driving prowess.

 

[Zeusmotorworks]

Didn't have the opportunity to do what I wanted today, but suspect if it's her vs the truck, she's trying to correct the problem with the skinny petal vs let the electronics do their job. Which is what I'm getting from "Joe" the the Toyota foreman as the potential cause. Again, guess I blew this out of proportion on the principle of how we believed it should behave vs it being a huge "problem" per se.

 

[1engineer]

Didn't have the opportunity to do what I wanted today, but suspect if it's her vs the truck, she's trying to correct the problem with the skinny petal vs let the electronics do their job. Which is what I'm getting from "Joe" the the Toyota foreman as the potential cause. Again, guess I blew this out of proportion on the principle of how we believed it should behave vs it being a huge "problem" per se.

One thing: I don't care how good of a driver she (you) are/is the electronics on the 4Runner are better. While I'm sure you guys can go faster through a turn in a controlled skid the VSC can brake each wheel independently(!) To keep it shiny side up. Humans can't do that and it might be a selling point to her. Hope everything turns out ok during your tests.

 

[Zeusmotorworks]

One thing: I don't care how good of a driver she (you) are/is the electronics on the 4Runner are better. While I'm sure you guys can go faster through a turn in a controlled skid the VSC can brake each wheel independently(!) To keep it shiny side up. Humans can't do that and it might be a selling point to her. Hope everything turns out ok during your tests.

Engineer,

That's the whole reason I was "ok" on the idea to "step down" to a part time 4WD from full time (not to mention the 4runner is SO much nicer than the FJ for her). The fact that modern safety nets have come so freakin far. In addition, we are getting old... dropping the youngest kid off to MEPS to become a Marine next weekend. With that said, my knee jerk reaction to the "incidents" was do to expecting these safety nets to keep my Wife (who is my best friend by the way) safe as the reflexes/no longer practiced skills wain. My over emphasis on her experience was merely to establish a baseline (not a "typical" driver) and nothing more. The point is for us both to have confidence in the machine. That means vetting this out to our comfort and moving on.

 

[tired_old_dave]

Zeus,

Your concern for your wife who is an experienced driver is also my concern for my wife. That's why I went on and on about tires. I can no longer change the tires on the H3 but thankfully arthritis fused my spine and I can walk. Better-half just had a knee replacement that was considered one of the worse at utsw.

The GX has a knee air bag but neither Lexus nor other testing body knows if it is good or bad for replaced knees. The surgeon said this is her only knee until she dies. The 4runner GX don't pass the new small offset crash test. Looking underneath you can see the beam for the plastic bumper stops before reaching the area in front of the tire. A little welding or an aftermarket azir or steel bumper may solve that. My wife doesn't take corners with the speed limiter cutting in like I do so I told her if she has to hit anything take it full frontal.

Never played in the mud never been to Moab. Somebody got a dang nice rubicon when I traded it in for her GX. The jk didn't feel solid like a sandbagged jeep speeding into war zone c. And I will never forget the sound of the tranny doing 65.

Google showed a closed business in Austin Zeus Motorworks. If that's you then I didn't underestimate your background.

 

[Zeusmotorworks]

Dave,

Sounds like you've had a rough go of it. Wish you and yours a recovery be it swift or not, but at least a recovery.
We do the best with what we have. I'd like to give up about 6 meds and especially the need for them myself.

Yes that's me... or was. Back had enough stooping over other peoples cars but learned a thing or two over the years. Let me clear the air. I think Toyota makes some great trucks. Only cars of theirs I know my way around with a wrench was the MK VI Supra. Man I wish I'd have gotten one but "never got around to it". I have lost no confidence in these trucks, but was apparently overly optimistic in my (our) expectations giving up full time 4WD. We'll see. I've got this nasty habit of being attracted to above average "bang for the buck". I believe you get that from both the 4runner AND the FJ. For a daily driver I'd still suggest the FJ for someone wanting to lean to the side of light to moderate rock crawling, and a 4runner for someone who will go offroad (a little), but likes more creature comforts and minds scratches down the side of their trucks. Of course that scale slides all over the place and no one fits someone else's particular mold.

As for the 4runner crash worthiness, I didn't see that slight offset data until after the purchase of course. I've not looked at it, but cant help but wonder if an older 5th gen bumper might not bolt under there with minor trimming. Of course your suggestion and many peoples reality of an aftermarket bumper could make that a moot point.