Ellis_McPickle
New member
This is why I don't. You guys nailed it.
Clearly, I don't know how to quote 2 people in the same post. If a mod can merge the two, that'd be cool.
4Runner vs BMW X5d?? Opinions
- Thread starter Ellis_McPickle
- Start date
This is why I don't. You guys nailed it.
Clearly, I don't know how to quote 2 people in the same post. If a mod can merge the two, that'd be cool.
Brandonium
Member
Yeah, the A8 is spectacular for sure. Would frequently drive one in 2004/2005 and that 4.2 mated to a quattro drive train was heavenly. Same for the S8! I remember a situation where someone with an A8 out of warranty had one of his air suspension struts take a crap. Audi demanded that the owner replace all 4 as the design had changed over the years so that was common practice. It was 6K plus to get his suspension back.
Twin Turbo replacement on an S4? Yeah.. even at that level your balls get chopped clean off with no remorse.
The drive though. I felt sorry for Phaeton owners once that bad boy came out from under warranty or anyone with a W8 passat that needed engine work.
Oh it's fun that's for sure just make sure you feed it some big bills..they don't like the washingtons they prefer the Benji's!
Twin Turbo replacement on an S4? Yeah.. even at that level your balls get chopped clean off with no remorse.
The drive though. I felt sorry for Phaeton owners once that bad boy came out from under warranty or anyone with a W8 passat that needed engine work.
Oh it's fun that's for sure just make sure you feed it some big bills..they don't like the washingtons they prefer the Benji's!
sandcrawler
Senior Member
maybe the short-term, short-money solution is to just drop $300 on a SprintBooster and see if it gives your reliable 4Runner even a fraction of the juice you crave.
if it works out, super. if not, you'll surely find a buyer in the 5G FS thread.
if it works out, super. if not, you'll surely find a buyer in the 5G FS thread.
philsey
New member
Immediately to the R of the "quote" button is the "multi-quote" button. Use that on each of the posts you want to collect, except the last one, then use the "Quote" button on the very last one. Easy-peasey.
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1engineer
Moderator
Ellis_McPickle
New member
[MENTION=29376]sandcrawler[/MENTION], Got the Sprint Booster. It helps, but it's not a game changer.I'll say it's worth the $300 for the better drivability.
[MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] [MENTION=51186]philsey[/MENTION], gratitude.
[MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] [MENTION=51186]philsey[/MENTION], gratitude.
Knight-Errant
New member
You mentioned a Subaru Outback in your first post. I was really impressed by the Outback. I wouldn't mind owning one of those and it was one of the finalists before I made my 4runner purchase.
How about a volvo xc70 wagon? Those are really nice and a bit more sophisticated in terms of style when compared to the outback. My family has had many Volvos and they've been reliable. It is the last model year for the current style, which is a shame because I think it looks really great as is. I hope they don't botch up whatever replaces it.
How about a volvo xc70 wagon? Those are really nice and a bit more sophisticated in terms of style when compared to the outback. My family has had many Volvos and they've been reliable. It is the last model year for the current style, which is a shame because I think it looks really great as is. I hope they don't botch up whatever replaces it.
This is my experience with BMW's and this is a very small sample size:
1. My boss had a 99 540i. It was a rocket ship and was an awesome car. However, it never could hold an alignment and ate front tires. I worked in accounting and paid all of his dealer repair bills.
2. My best friend has a 3 series convertible. Car has been mechanically sound, nothing major however, it has leaked from the day he got it. He resigned himself to that fact and parks it over a drip pan.
3. My brother had a CPO X5. Complete POS. Electrical issues, bad radiator, was always in the shop for something and never got out for under $500.00. His almost 20 year old Wrangler was much more reliable. Dumped it and replaced it with a Honda Pilot. Much happier with the Pilot.
My F-I-L has an Audi Q5 and it has been rock solid.
My gripe with German cars is they are way over engineered, difficult and expensive to repair. IMHO Toyota, Nissan, Honda are better engineered, simpler to work on and assembled better.
1. My boss had a 99 540i. It was a rocket ship and was an awesome car. However, it never could hold an alignment and ate front tires. I worked in accounting and paid all of his dealer repair bills.
2. My best friend has a 3 series convertible. Car has been mechanically sound, nothing major however, it has leaked from the day he got it. He resigned himself to that fact and parks it over a drip pan.
3. My brother had a CPO X5. Complete POS. Electrical issues, bad radiator, was always in the shop for something and never got out for under $500.00. His almost 20 year old Wrangler was much more reliable. Dumped it and replaced it with a Honda Pilot. Much happier with the Pilot.
My F-I-L has an Audi Q5 and it has been rock solid.
My gripe with German cars is they are way over engineered, difficult and expensive to repair. IMHO Toyota, Nissan, Honda are better engineered, simpler to work on and assembled better.
1G3runner
New member
We had a 135i that we just traded in for a Mazda CX5 .
It was the most fun I've ever had driving/owning a car, simply put that thing drove like a go-kart on steroids.
Sadly it ends there. We bought it CPO and just 1 month outside of warranty, the headlight housing melts. They wanted close to $2k to replace 1 headlight and I had to beg them to forward the issue to corporate. Thankfully they replaced it because at this point, we realized the cost and ownership of a German car is out of our price range.
Prior to this, the car overheated on our way back home from Monterey (close to 2hr drive) and the radiator exploded -- covered by warranty and made for a memorable anniversary trip.
Lastly, right before we traded it in we had a TPMS malfunction and needed a new battery. This was when I found out that a new battery was going to cost us close to $500 because it needed to be programmed and registered to the vehicle. Overengineered is an understatement.
Sorry for the long rant but this was all in a span of 2 years.
I would love to own another BMW, based on the driving experience alone but just repeating what everyone has already said, be prepared for the high cost if anything were to happen outside of warranty. I do miss that little kart but I'm so much more content and have a greater peace of mind with the 4runner.
It was the most fun I've ever had driving/owning a car, simply put that thing drove like a go-kart on steroids.
Sadly it ends there. We bought it CPO and just 1 month outside of warranty, the headlight housing melts. They wanted close to $2k to replace 1 headlight and I had to beg them to forward the issue to corporate. Thankfully they replaced it because at this point, we realized the cost and ownership of a German car is out of our price range.
Prior to this, the car overheated on our way back home from Monterey (close to 2hr drive) and the radiator exploded -- covered by warranty and made for a memorable anniversary trip.
Lastly, right before we traded it in we had a TPMS malfunction and needed a new battery. This was when I found out that a new battery was going to cost us close to $500 because it needed to be programmed and registered to the vehicle. Overengineered is an understatement.
Sorry for the long rant but this was all in a span of 2 years.
I would love to own another BMW, based on the driving experience alone but just repeating what everyone has already said, be prepared for the high cost if anything were to happen outside of warranty. I do miss that little kart but I'm so much more content and have a greater peace of mind with the 4runner.
sandcrawler
Senior Member
we like to joke that any and every visit to BMW is measured in $500 increments.
when i replaced our BMW's (lead acid) battery with an AGM myself for a fraction of the dealer's sucker-soaking price they still tried to charge me 2 hours of shop time just to register the new AGM to the vehicle. i called shenanigans about trying to bilk me; they simply connect the computer and change a couple of fields. they did it for free. the legit thing about the registration process is that the alternator is programmed to charge differently for an AGM vs. a lead acid battery.
i find it horrifying that BMW is now eliminating dipsticks in favor of oil level sensors. over-engineered doesn't even begin to describe it.
i've randomly driven a couple other BMW models recently but none of them come close to the special feel of the 335d. in all cases, truthfully, they've all felt super blah with a very light, disconnected steering feel. and the drive-by-wire sensation has been every bit as bad, if not worse, than the 4Runner.
Brandonium
Member
I learned to switch my passion to classics that are not popular (hence not 100k+ classics) and that's where my passion sits these days. I do miss the luxury and stomp that these vehicles have but if I'm being bled dry over time the enjoyment eventually sours.
I always felt sorry for Jag owners that would come in with issues back in the Y2K days. Electrical issues would open up a financial black hole. So many times someone would trade up just to avoid a service bill (even though they were paying it on the back end/out the back end).
These people would often trade into Range Rovers. :crutch:
I've never been a fan of American made vehicles but I have owned them (Ford that is) and I don't hate where they are today but still..I don't get all mushy over their offerings (exception being the 2006 Ford GT Gulf Livery)
I always felt sorry for Jag owners that would come in with issues back in the Y2K days. Electrical issues would open up a financial black hole. So many times someone would trade up just to avoid a service bill (even though they were paying it on the back end/out the back end).
These people would often trade into Range Rovers. :crutch:
I've never been a fan of American made vehicles but I have owned them (Ford that is) and I don't hate where they are today but still..I don't get all mushy over their offerings (exception being the 2006 Ford GT Gulf Livery)
Ellis_McPickle
New member
I've had the GX in the back of my mind since you posted this and actually walked into my raised 4runner tailgate the other day and decided that it would be silly to discount a vehicle solely on the tailgate.
Drove 2 GX's today and I may be sold. It's got a nicer overall feel than the 4runner, just enough more power, audio is sweet! It does everything I'd like it to, just have to consider if it's worth the price to upgrade.
The most amazing part, I was offered nearly what I paid for my 4runner as a trade in! Tempting to take an offer, but tempting to keep something that holds it's value so well.
Gecko
New member
If you were offered almost a clean trade for your 4Runner, you'd be crazy not to take it.
GXs hold their value just as well as 4Runners.
DO IT!
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philsey
New member
Yehbut, do tell us MSRP and what discount before the trade. I've looked at GXs and they're always so loaded with stuff I don't want, just like the LC.
That was funny about cracking your head on the liftgate - you must need new struts.
Ellis_McPickle
New member
Alright, a little more info....
I found 2 GX's that I liked, both with the premium package, both '14's, both CPO, for $46,500 and $50,500 respectively. the only difference was miles on the car. I do want the premium package because I guess I'm just high maintenance....
The only thing I don't care for are the 3rd row seats, but not a make or break issue as there's still plenty of cargo space.
They offered $36,000 for the 4Runner, and I have a $4500 insurance check from hail damage just burning a hole in my pocket. Bought the runner in April '15 for $40k.
With regard to the lift gate.... I was talking with a coworker as I was walking into it, he didn't even warn me, but definitely laughed. Also, had backed into a space and was walking on the sidewalk which was raised by a few inches, and I'm 6'2" which puts that thing right at forehead height.
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Doc_Fry
New member
Having owned a 2003 4.5 X5 and a 2015 4Runner I have some
Experience with each and will try to hit the high points here.
Drivability: X5 better performance, Handiling, braking, comfort, and ride.
Reliability: difficult got 285,000 miles before any major issues. Had experienced some problems with the airbags but easily changed myself. My largest and most expensive issue was right after I tore down the motor to the block replacing all the major seals (had a small coolant leak) and cleaing it up replaing some parts. Overall about $1500. Shortly after this not only did my transmission start to go but also had issues with oil pressure. After spending alit if timenin the engine bay I was done with the vehicle. Just didnt have the stamina nor time to get in there and tear it back apart to see where the issue was or if the block was cracked. Plus about $3k for a transmission was a gamble fir whatever might comeup wrong. Kinda a point of hitting major issues. But until then it was great. I would highly recommend a extended warranty with it. Saves some tear down time if its your inly car and cover trannys and the such. Now the 4Runner only have 20k in it but I like it, plus the fact that when I bought it the dealer offered a lifetime warranty. So I am covered pretty mich for anything major unless I cause it. Cant go wrong there.
Value: 4Runner. Even though I have put in some mods on it. The X5 was extremely expensive of of the lot. In the end I got $800 in my pocket and out about $3k in previous repairs.
Repairability: depends on what you can do. Parts are more expensive in the bmw. Some of the systems only the dealer can do.
Mileage: BMW here is where you can save a iittle money
Insirance: 4Runner
Inclimant weather: 4Runner. Though the BMW is awsome in the rain with its full time 4wheelmdrive when things get icy or in snow like Colorado you will have to have a set if winter tires. If you do then the BNW will get the incliment weather.
Packability: I beleive that the 4Runner has more room. But liked the fact that in the bmw I was able to put in a steel cage between the back seats and he cargo soace. Great for dogs and stacking up cargo.
Comfort: BMW. Now especially the newer one father has a few inckuding a new X6 and I absolutely love the navigation system and the integration between the driver and the computer. Plus the aircooled and heated seats, ac system, stereo, perforated leather, all Interior lighting etc makes the bmw the clear winner
Offroad: 4Runner witha caviate has to have some allterain tires. The BMW just isnt really made for anything besides some forest type roads with slight rutting. There is really now clearance. Though Everything under the body is tucked way up there.
Overall winner: depends on what you want and if you can afford it plus the future loss of equity the BMW. Personally beig retired now I am afraid to own ine since the overall cost of ownership and after Insikd the BMW I looked hard at the Chevrolet Tahoe. Has the luxury, power, drivability, space, plus cheaper to work on. I ended up getting a silverado though. A great truck and excelelnt highay driver, actually miss the drivability with it. But its your money and your needs and your choice. Just wanted to be as honest as possible.
Btw beast feature on my X5 was the split tailgate. Great when out with the dogs or out afield bird hunting.
Experience with each and will try to hit the high points here.
Drivability: X5 better performance, Handiling, braking, comfort, and ride.
Reliability: difficult got 285,000 miles before any major issues. Had experienced some problems with the airbags but easily changed myself. My largest and most expensive issue was right after I tore down the motor to the block replacing all the major seals (had a small coolant leak) and cleaing it up replaing some parts. Overall about $1500. Shortly after this not only did my transmission start to go but also had issues with oil pressure. After spending alit if timenin the engine bay I was done with the vehicle. Just didnt have the stamina nor time to get in there and tear it back apart to see where the issue was or if the block was cracked. Plus about $3k for a transmission was a gamble fir whatever might comeup wrong. Kinda a point of hitting major issues. But until then it was great. I would highly recommend a extended warranty with it. Saves some tear down time if its your inly car and cover trannys and the such. Now the 4Runner only have 20k in it but I like it, plus the fact that when I bought it the dealer offered a lifetime warranty. So I am covered pretty mich for anything major unless I cause it. Cant go wrong there.
Value: 4Runner. Even though I have put in some mods on it. The X5 was extremely expensive of of the lot. In the end I got $800 in my pocket and out about $3k in previous repairs.
Repairability: depends on what you can do. Parts are more expensive in the bmw. Some of the systems only the dealer can do.
Mileage: BMW here is where you can save a iittle money
Insirance: 4Runner
Inclimant weather: 4Runner. Though the BMW is awsome in the rain with its full time 4wheelmdrive when things get icy or in snow like Colorado you will have to have a set if winter tires. If you do then the BNW will get the incliment weather.
Packability: I beleive that the 4Runner has more room. But liked the fact that in the bmw I was able to put in a steel cage between the back seats and he cargo soace. Great for dogs and stacking up cargo.
Comfort: BMW. Now especially the newer one father has a few inckuding a new X6 and I absolutely love the navigation system and the integration between the driver and the computer. Plus the aircooled and heated seats, ac system, stereo, perforated leather, all Interior lighting etc makes the bmw the clear winner
Offroad: 4Runner witha caviate has to have some allterain tires. The BMW just isnt really made for anything besides some forest type roads with slight rutting. There is really now clearance. Though Everything under the body is tucked way up there.
Overall winner: depends on what you want and if you can afford it plus the future loss of equity the BMW. Personally beig retired now I am afraid to own ine since the overall cost of ownership and after Insikd the BMW I looked hard at the Chevrolet Tahoe. Has the luxury, power, drivability, space, plus cheaper to work on. I ended up getting a silverado though. A great truck and excelelnt highay driver, actually miss the drivability with it. But its your money and your needs and your choice. Just wanted to be as honest as possible.
Btw beast feature on my X5 was the split tailgate. Great when out with the dogs or out afield bird hunting.
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KingTaco
New member
Having owned a 2003 4.5 X5 and a 2015
Btw beast feature on my X5 was the split tailgate. QUOTE]
I don't necessarily agree with every opinion in your post, but this one, I am on 100% board with. That split tailgate was GREAT! Wish it rolled down, too
I had a 2013 N54 335is for a bit. Great car with awesome low-end torque! I never owned it out of warranty, but I never had any issues with it. The N54, and the N55 which followed it, actually work quite well once BMW worked out all of the bugs.
The biggest issues with regards to the N54 were cooling (which BMW addressed in later model years and can be fixed quite easily with aftermarket kits) and oil blow-by in the engine (which can be mitigated with an aftermarket catch-can). Quite honestly the oil blow-by is an issue for many turbo engines, both gasoline and diesel, so it's not just unique to BMW.
BMW's reliability isn't actually too bad, especially when you consider the performance you're getting. Higher performance vehicles, by their nature, have less room for error and malfunction. A lot of people who have "problems" with these cars are often the ones using piggy-backs or ECU tunes to get huge boosts in horsepower, well beyond what the engine and drive line was actually designed for.
That said, Toyota vehicles have better reliability, hands down. Thinking of all the things I've done to my 4runner and how it has worked flawlessly, I would never risk treating a BMW in such a manner. And Toyota's resale value is much easier to live with; brand new, and even slightly used, BMW's plummet in value in the second you drive them off the lot.
In short: BMW's are great to buy used as a hobby/track car while Toyota's are great to buy new or used for your reliable DD.
Edit: In regards to the OP's post, I never saw much point in buying BMW's, or any European performance brand, for everyday use. You're paying a lot of $ for the cache and brand more than anything else. If you want a reliable and cost-efficient daily driver, Toyota, Honda, Chevy, Nissan, Subaru, Ford, and heck even Volvo have great SUV's and crossovers that fulfill that role. Now, if you want a 2nd or 3rd car for pure driver-enjoyment and hobby garage work, used BMW's are hard to beat.
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Figured I'd bring this up to the top after the call I got from the BMW dealer this afternoon. My wife's 2011 X5 35i needs a new transfer case at 44,000 miles.
Fortunately there are a few months left on the CPO warranty, so it will only cost me a $50 deductible. Had this happened after Jan. 16th, it would be somewhere north of $5k at the dealer.
Probably won't be difficult to guess which of the two I'd recommend at this point.
Fortunately there are a few months left on the CPO warranty, so it will only cost me a $50 deductible. Had this happened after Jan. 16th, it would be somewhere north of $5k at the dealer.
Probably won't be difficult to guess which of the two I'd recommend at this point.
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