4th Gen Lift Questions

[Jared]

Although this is my first post, I have been reading this forum and YT for some time now. I'm finally taking the plunge and going to do work to my '03 4R. I have a couple of questions first. If anyone can help, I really appreciate it.

#1 Is the general consensus about front lifts that the Donohoe setup is the best on the market at the time?

#2 For the rear, I would like to eventually go with what Donohoe comes up with later in the summer, but for the time being would spacers suit me fine? I'm concerned after all of the NE hoopla around here and YT.

#3 I have not see anyone mention it here, but has anyone tried the lift method on a 4Runner that Four Wheeler did on the Trailex? Is it possible to just do what they did and cut the bottom shaft of the coil over and weld a 2.5 inch spacer? It seems like it would be vastly cheaper than the Donohoe setup above, but still proven over the Rubicon. Am I missing something? Also, it would allow me to not uninstall my X-REAS.

#4 When I talked to the folks at Off Road Wherehouse, they mentioned that I had to replace my stock 17's with different rims so they won't rub when I put on 33's?!? What gives, if I get 33's on 16's vs. stock 17's, what difference does the rim make? If the tire radius is the same, shouldn't they both not rub? I understand you want more rubber when offroading, but there's a cost concern.

#5 Lastly (sorry, I didn't want to break this up in separate threads), I have no garage, so I can't possibly do the work myself. I'm in San Diego, so I was planning on going into ORW do get the work done. Does anyone have any experience with them? I'm concerned that they will be overpriced due to how much business they bring in here in S.D.

Thanks for any help!

 

[dcampen]

#1 Is the general consensus about front lifts that the Donohoe setup is the best on the market at the time?

#2 For the rear, I would like to eventually go with what Donohoe comes up with later in the summer, but for the time being would spacers suit me fine? I'm concerned after all of the NE hoopla around here and YT.

In addition to Donahoe, SAW also has a front coilover kit. The SAW also , like Donahoe, does not have anything for the rear. Leaving you with having to install spacers in the rear or, instead of spacers, you could install OME shocks and springs in the rear.

The Donahoe and SAW coilovers seem to have been built to offroad racing requirements and are correspondingly expensive. If you are planning on using your 4Runner in offroad racing then it would seem that you would probably want to wait until Donahoe or SAW had a complete racing package - including rear racing shocks and coils. If you are not planning on offroad racing your 4Runner then why not go with the OME where you can get both front and back springs and shocks for less money than the Donahoe or SAW front coilover.

 

[dcampen]

When I talked to the folks at Off Road Wherehouse, they mentioned that I had to replace my stock 17's with different rims so they won't rub when I put on 33's?!? What gives, if I get 33's on 16's vs. stock 17's, what difference does the rim make?

Yeah, that seems an odd statement. Actually, I think people have said that 32s are the largest you can go without rubbing problems (irregardless of rim size).

 

[Bluto]

Although this is my first post, I have been reading this forum and YT for some time now. I'm finally taking the plunge and going to do work to my '03 4R. I have a couple of questions first. If anyone can help, I really appreciate it.

#3 I have not see anyone mention it here, but has anyone tried the lift method on a 4Runner that Four Wheeler did on the Trailex? Is it possible to just do what they did and cut the bottom shaft of the coil over and weld a 2.5 inch spacer? It seems like it would be vastly cheaper than the Donohoe setup above, but still proven over the Rubicon. Am I missing something? Also, it would allow me to not uninstall my X-REAS.

#4 When I talked to the folks at Off Road Wherehouse, they mentioned that I had to replace my stock 17's with different rims so they won't rub when I put on 33's?!? What gives, if I get 33's on 16's vs. stock 17's, what difference does the rim make? If the tire radius is the same, shouldn't they both not rub? I understand you want more rubber when offroading, but there's a cost concern.



Thanks for any help!

#1, A TTORA coilover debate:

http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1471

Most coilover manufactures make an excellent product. But are different in many ways. Have to decide if coilovers are really what you need, then the best brand coilover for you.

#2, I you have X-REAS, can do a spacer lift front and rear. Anything not NE is fine. But the front and rear shocks are connected. If you put coilovers up front, you have to remove the rear x-reas shocks.

#3, I'd like to know as well.

#4, The new rims will have a different offset. I don't know if it helps the 4gen.

 

[Good Times]

[#1 Is the general consensus about front lifts that the Donohoe setup is the best on the market at the time?

If you plan to add additional weight (i.e. bumpers etc etc) then Coilovers would be recommended as you would be able to adjust the height for the additional weight you add. But that said, you can also go with OME's which are direct coil and shock replacement which is just as good. Coilovers are great but come at a price.

If you have xreas and want to keep it, then I recommend Cornfed Spacers.

If not, then I first recommend OME's and then if you want to go all out, look into Donahoe and Sway A Way.

#2 For the rear, I would like to eventually go with what Donohoe comes up with later in the summer, but for the time being would spacers suit me fine? I'm concerned after all of the NE hoopla around here and YT.

OME or Downey would be the best bet for now. OME would be my primary choice for the rear. I wouldn't use spacers as that'll make your ride harsh.

#3 I have not see anyone mention it here, but has anyone tried the lift method on a 4Runner that Four Wheeler did on the Trailex? Is it possible to just do what they did and cut the bottom shaft of the coil over and weld a 2.5 inch spacer? It seems like it would be vastly cheaper than the Donohoe setup above, but still proven over the Rubicon. Am I missing something? Also, it would allow me to not uninstall my X-REAS.

Rehashing stock equipment for additional height really defeats the purpose of making it better outside of just gaining more height. The reason ppl lift are two folds. 1. get more lift. 2. get more articulation/travel etc etc if you know what I mean. stock really limits your options so thus having aftermarket suspension is key for better trail ride. It's all about doing it right the first time and not continually rehashing something. When they built the trailux, they didn't have any other options so they went that way. Oddly if they did some homework they would have know that we already had some lifted 4th gens but o well right?

#4 When I talked to the folks at Off Road Wherehouse, they mentioned that I had to replace my stock 17's with different rims so they won't rub when I put on 33's?!? What gives, if I get 33's on 16's vs. stock 17's, what difference does the rim make? If the tire radius is the same, shouldn't they both not rub? I understand you want more rubber when offroading, but there's a cost concern.

Now if you have the SR5 grade, then you can run 16" wheels (which will be cheaper and the tires are too - something to consider) but 17"s are fine. Expect those to be more expensive. If you plan to fit 285's (33's equivalent) then expect to do signficant trimming if you plan to offroad. RUBBING WILL OCCUR! 285's on 16's or 17's are no different so bleh to them. Part of the rubbing will be due to the offset/BS on the stock wheels. When you go 285's I recommend getting some aftermarket wheels (I have 16x8 w/ 4.5BS 0 offset - with rubbing at full lock or full compression).

#5 Lastly (sorry, I didn't want to break this up in separate threads), I have no garage, so I can't possibly do the work myself. I'm in San Diego, so I was planning on going into ORW do get the work done. Does anyone have any experience with them? I'm concerned that they will be overpriced due to how much business they bring in here in S.D.

There's quite a few guys that did lift 4th gens in SD so ask around. I'm sure ppl will offer their place to help you out. Always do these things yourself as lifting the 4th gen is sooo easy! With some direction even a rookie can accomplish this goal. - Offer a wrenchathon or something and ppl will flock (include food and drinks and it's a guarantee!)

Good Luck

 

[Jared]

Thanks for the help so far. I do not plan to do offroad racing. Unfortunately, I don't have ONE type of driving that I do. I'm mostly in Anzo Borego, but that limits it down to sand, rocks, and whoops. My bigest concern is that I still want a well performing truck on the street. I'm concerned that in trying to save some money on the lift, I totally ruin the $30k ride. I love the fact that I can corner in the 4r without leaning even slightly. I'm eager to hear other's responses.

Thanks again for the help so far.

 

[Jared]

Re: Re: 4th Gen Lift Questions

Rehashing stock equipment for additional height really defeats the purpose of making it better outside of just gaining more height. The reason ppl lift are two folds. 1. get more lift. 2. get more articulation/travel etc etc if you know what I mean. stock really limits your options so thus having aftermarket suspension is key for better trail ride. It's all about doing it right the first time and not continually rehashing something. When they built the trailux, they didn't have any other options so they went that way. Oddly if they did some homework they would have know that we already had some lifted 4th gens but o well right?

Thanks for the simply reply. You answered perfectly. It was sort of what I was thinking. I definitely am not lifting this just to lift it (or for looks). I have offroaded on easy->moderate trails so far and have been in situations where I really could use a little more hieght or some bigger tires to be more comfortable. My eventual plan would be to also replace the bumper (ARB?), add some sliders, and some rear protection. Right now, the lift seems to be the first requirement.

I do know what you mean regarding articulation/travel and agree that that is what I'm shooting for.

I have the Sport, so I already have 17's. All along I was planning on putting 32's on my stock 17's, so that is why I was a bit taken back by ORW's comments. Having to buy rims would drastically affect the price point of this upgrade. I'm not totally penny pinching, but a man's got a wife!

I'm interested in doing the work in someone's garage if it really is that simple. I'm a electrical eng. / software eng. so I'm not a total engineering idiot, but I *gasp* have never used a welder!

As mentioned above, I do have a wife, so cutting the truck apart or modifying the body is probably out of the question for now.

So to sum up so far, if I want to keep X-REAS I need to go spacers all around. If I don't care, then I can go OME all around and be in a fairly good situation? I really don't want to redo this at a later date, so I want to get it right the first time. I read the OME install thread, but to no mention on how they felt compared to X-REAS on the road, so any insight would be helpful.

Sorry again for the long post.

 

[Good Times]

Since you have the SPORTS model that has the XREAS, you really limit your options significantly.

I recommend Cornfed Suspension. Get their spacers for the front and rear and call it a day. If you plan to retain your xreas setup, you'll need to go with spacers so might as well go with their spacers (I personally like theirs the most).

I only know of two people that have removed their XREAS and replaced it with their OME's and both have stated that it rides the same if not better. But this means removing an expensive piece of equipment from your 4runner so keep that in mind (don't think the wife will like that idea). Removing xreas will open up options as you can get a full coil/shock replacement (OME) or even go coilovers up front and coil/shock in the rear.

With the SPORTs model, you're stuck w/ 17's so look into 17" aftermarket wheels and get some 265/70/17 (I think that's one size up right?) and you should be fine with no rubbing. if you want, you can get 285'75'17 (or was it 285'70'17 I forget - 33's equivalent) but expect to trim some key areas (front and rear bumper ends - also mud flaps must come off or they'll just get ripped off while on the trails).

You can also go with a body lift too btw from Roger Brown if you need more lift. The max is 1.5" so keep that in mind.

Good Luck

 

[JB.]

My bigest concern is that I still want a well performing truck on the street. I'm concerned that in trying to save some money on the lift, I totally ruin the $30k ride. I love the fact that I can corner in the 4r without leaning even slightly. I'm eager to hear other's responses.

I go through this mental process every day. As soon as I'm convinced I'm going to lift, I go whipping around a corner, feel the amazing stability, and decide to hold off.

One thing you can do right away while you decide all the other stuff is get 32" tires with an aggressive tread. You'll significantly improve your off-roading and still whip the corners. It'll go a long way towards satisfyiing your urge to change things and give you time to go over all your options.

 

[Jared]

I recommend Cornfed Suspension. Get their spacers for the front and rear and call it a day. If you plan to retain your xreas setup, you'll need to go with spacers so might as well go with their spacers (I personally like theirs the most).

Will I need to do a diff drop with a 2" lift, or should my angles still be fine?

My only concern with keeping X-REAS is that I'm going to need to replace it down the line sometime, and I've heard that replacement can run $1000+ from Toyota.

I've got some thinking to do.

BTW, I talked to the guy from ORW who mentioned that stock rims wouldn't work with 265/75's due to the rub on the UCA from the stock rim's offset. So offset was the reason he didn't recommend stock with any bigger tires.

Man, offroading is the worst (but most addictive) sport on the planet. Even snowboarding/skiing/golf is cheaper!

 

[Good Times]

Stock UCA's will be fine.
stock wheels w/ 265/70/17 (stock is 265/65/17 right?) will be fine - NO RUBBING

not sure exactly the size on the 17's but one size up on stock tires will be perfectly fine with absolutely NO rubbing - search and u will learn real quick that's it's ok. upgrade to 285's and you'll experience lots of rubbing and I mean LOTS of rubbing.

UCA's are not worth the $ that it costs. It's just dang too expensive and you don't get much out of it. Sorry but true. If you plan to offroad A LOT then look into this piece of otherwise save your $$ since the wife will not appreciate a 400-650 item!!!

I would recommend that you do the lift and tires at once so it's all done at the sametime. easier on the wife since she only sees one mod instead of TWO.

I didn't mention diff drops because it's not needed on our vehicles. I've experimented enough to confidently say it's worthless but there are individuals that think otherwise so it's no biggie. For me, it's all about the value on the product and the most bang for your buck that won't kill your budget (especially those that have tight budgets too - like me).

good luck!

Will I need to do a diff drop with a 2" lift, or should my angles still be fine?

My only concern with keeping X-REAS is that I'm going to need to replace it down the line sometime, and I've heard that replacement can run $1000+ from Toyota.

I've got some thinking to do.

BTW, I talked to the guy from ORW who mentioned that stock rims wouldn't work with 265/75's due to the rub on the UCA from the stock rim's offset. So offset was the reason he didn't recommend stock with any bigger tires.

Man, offroading is the worst (but most addictive) sport on the planet. Even snowboarding/skiing/golf is cheaper!

 

[dcampen]

BTW, I talked to the guy from ORW who mentioned that stock rims wouldn't work with 265/75's due to the rub on the UCA from the stock rim's offset. So offset was the reason he didn't recommend stock with any bigger tires.

I am not certain that you two are talking the same thing. It seems that perhaps the ORW guy is saying that you shouldn't go larger than 32" tires (265-75/16) (or 265-70 on 17" rims).

 

[Jared]

I am not certain that you two are talking the same thing. It seems that perhaps the ORW guy is saying that you shouldn't go larger than 32" tires (265-75/16) (or 265-70 on 17" rims).

Yeah, I screwed up by writing 265/75. He was saying that the stock tire (265/65/17) when upgraded to (265/70/17) would rub at full compression. Right now with the stock tire, there's probably only a fingers width of space between the tire and the UCA. Right now I'm more trusting of Lance because of all the posts I've read of his here and on YT.

Now I'm REALLY hesitant to change the rims. #1 I like the rims, #2 I dislike spending money.

He mentioned me getting 265/75/16's (that's why I mentioned 265/75 on accident) with 16 aftermarket wheel, but I doubt I can find a 16 wheel that will clear the monster calipers.

Thanks for all the feedback!

 

[Good Times]

Since you have the SPORTS model, you can't run 16" wheels Sorry.

You're stuck w/ 17" so make the best of it. There are many people on here and on other forums that run the 265/70/17 with no rubbing at all (maybe abit if you're going 500 mph and turn into a driveway or something - sarcasm at it's best) but don't worry about it.

Running stock UCA's will be fine as I know only of 3 people that are running aftermarket uca's. And we all know there are plenty of people running lifts on the 4th gen so need not worry.

I would say screw ORW and just get your spacer kit elsewhere and install it at someone's house/garage/driveway. There are plenty of members in SD from this forum that wouldn't mind giving you a hand on how to install the lift kit. If you don't mind driving out to LA I wouldn't mind helping you out as long as you provide all the tools (since I don't plan on doing a hand tool XREAS install anymore - it was a pita esp the coil compressor.... ugh).

Since $ is tight, I'd say give Cornfed a buzz and get their spacers - they're abit slow though since he's in the military so give him ample time (warning). Get some 265/70/17's (MT or AT - REVO's come highly recommended if you want the best of both worlds - the only drawback is that I believe the REVO's in the 265/70/17's are not rated that high as a MT would be. check into this - ask bulldog_yota since he has these exact tires in the exact size w/ 2 diff lift setups - he'll give u the skinny on rubbing - and he's still running stock UCA's).

Good luck

 

[dcampen]

If you don't mind driving out to LA I wouldn't mind helping you out as long as you provide all the tools (since I don't plan on doing a hand tool XREAS install anymore - it was a pita esp the coil compressor.... ugh).

With the OME coils/shocks package, the trdparts4u guy over at YT is offering a kit that would seem to bypass the need for doing teh coil compression:
"If you prefer this to be a complete bolt-in swap, we can preassemble your coilovers with brand new Toyota top plates, bushings & nuts for only $150 more. Considering that most places charge $20 per to swap, you save time and retain a complete coilover assembly, making resale of your used parts easier! You must be willing to accept the possibility of the minor cosmetic scuffs/scrapes that may happen from strut/coil compression, and the units will be non-returnable."
http://www.yotatech.com/showthread.php?t=44741&page=2

 

[Good Times]

he has the xreas so I don't think he's going to want to remove it so thus the spacer direction

 

[Jared]

You guys are awesome thanks. Lance, I'd be totally lost if not for your many posts. BTW, your setup is _really_ nice. My compliments.

I'll let you know what I end up with. Right now I'm going to keep the stock UCA (I never planned on changing that) and the stock rims. I've looked at the Revo's, but I'm also looking at the Toyo Open Country AT's. I've heard good things about them.

Lance, one thing I am considering is heading up to L.A. to get work done. I'm pretty set on only going to someone who has done an X-REAS uninstall already. ORW has never done that, and I don't want a potentionally sell-able $1000 suspension ruined. Not that they aren't talented, but I'd rather be on hand for any damage!! That reminds me, do you think there is even a market (ebay or whatever) out there that would buy an X-REAS kit, or stock 17's?

Thanks again for all of your help everyone!

 

[Good Times]

not sure if there's a demand for the xreas (good question).

if you're planning to remove the xreas then i recommend ome's kit

enjoy and good luck!

 

[TeCKis300]

With the SPORTs model, you're stuck w/ 17's so look into 17" aftermarket wheels and get some 265/70/17 (I think that's one size up right?) and you should be fine with no rubbing. if you want, you can get 285'75'17 (or was it 285'70'17 I forget - 33's equivalent) but expect to trim some key areas (front and rear bumper ends - also mud flaps must come off or they'll just get ripped off while on the trails).

Instead of replacing the wheels, why couldn't you just add like a 5mm wheel spacer to gain some extra offset? Wheel spacers are use all the time on sports cars...do they not apply to trucks?

 

[gonzo]

Probably a dumb question, but . . .

If I were to lift my runner using spacers, would it be a simple body lift, or could it lift the frame as well?