I'm not sure why this would be an issue. The part-time 4WD in the 5th Gen is a great system. It's same as what comes on all trucks, Jeeps, etc. Road gets slippery? Put it in 4WD. Not sure why that makes it less of a 4WD system. An "advantage" of a AWD in the 4th Gen is you can engage it on dry pavement. But why would you want to? Furthermore, why would you need 4WD at 90MPH?
4th Gen vs. 5th Gen For My Needs?
- Thread starter thomasec
- Start date
I'm not sure why this would be an issue. The part-time 4WD in the 5th Gen is a great system. It's same as what comes on all trucks, Jeeps, etc. Road gets slippery? Put it in 4WD. Not sure why that makes it less of a 4WD system. An "advantage" of a AWD in the 4th Gen is you can engage it on dry pavement. But why would you want to? Furthermore, why would you need 4WD at 90MPH?
road surfaces vary, especially in Tahoe. it can be dry one moment, you hit a bridge, then it's icy. It's definitely an advantage to be able to run AWD all the time. Drivers to Tahoe would appreciate it, as this OP would do.
I believe my example to drive it to 90MPH was an exaggeration... apparently not blatant enough of one. the point is you can throw the car in AWD and go faster than the 35mph on the roads to Tahoe.
I've had no issues just leaving the truck in 4WD in conditions like that. I am in Utah and head up to ski resorts regularly. Zero issues. And no issues going faster than 35mph in 4WD either.
As an owner of both, I actually have the opposite to say than the guy up top who has both. First -- both get crappy MPG, so I wouldn't use that as a determining factor haha.
I have a long torso, and at only 5'11, my hair in my cowlick scrapes the roof of my 4th gen -- not so in the 5th gen. Both of my trucks have the sunroof. Don't get me wrong, I love my 4th Gen, but the 5th Gen is just bigger all around, and IMO much more comfortable. The seats are little bigger with better leg support for longer rides. I do have the LE, so maybe the seats are different, but I still prefer them.
The 5th gen has a defroster for the wiper blades, automatic headlights, push button ignition. Funny story on that -- I know a lot of people don't like push button. The other day when we had our ridiculously cold days, I went out to my truck (4th Gen) and the key wouldn't turn. My ignition was frozen and I had to muscle through it. Something push button wouldn't have problems with.
We also have the full-time 4WD which is nice, but I will admit that I like all the different options of the 4WD selector and center diff lock of my 4th gen. The 5th Gen has a stronger rear diff, though.
The 5th Gen has a quieter interior IMO.
I do like the trunk latch better on the 4th gen.
The face lifted 5th gen looks awesome -- which I know is super subjective.
Lastly, the 5th gen is my wife's ride and I wish I had it haha. So I am not biased toward my truck that I do love and spend a lot of time with.
I have a long torso, and at only 5'11, my hair in my cowlick scrapes the roof of my 4th gen -- not so in the 5th gen. Both of my trucks have the sunroof. Don't get me wrong, I love my 4th Gen, but the 5th Gen is just bigger all around, and IMO much more comfortable. The seats are little bigger with better leg support for longer rides. I do have the LE, so maybe the seats are different, but I still prefer them.
The 5th gen has a defroster for the wiper blades, automatic headlights, push button ignition. Funny story on that -- I know a lot of people don't like push button. The other day when we had our ridiculously cold days, I went out to my truck (4th Gen) and the key wouldn't turn. My ignition was frozen and I had to muscle through it. Something push button wouldn't have problems with.
We also have the full-time 4WD which is nice, but I will admit that I like all the different options of the 4WD selector and center diff lock of my 4th gen. The 5th Gen has a stronger rear diff, though.
The 5th Gen has a quieter interior IMO.
I do like the trunk latch better on the 4th gen.
The face lifted 5th gen looks awesome -- which I know is super subjective.
Lastly, the 5th gen is my wife's ride and I wish I had it haha. So I am not biased toward my truck that I do love and spend a lot of time with.
I am 6'5". I do not have the sunroof in my 4th gen, and I have a ton of headroom. Regarding more space all the way around, absolutely not. I have very broad shoulders, and the B pillar in the 5th gen absolutely sits further into the car than the 4th gen. The seating position is more upright in the 5th gen though, that part is true.
FYI, not sure where you got the info on the rear diffs but from what I can tell of the parts catalog, these diffs are the same, with only a different gear ratio since 4th gen comes with one aspect ratio smaller tire stock than 5th gen does. BUT, there are 4 different diff carriers offered for each year.
cool you have a 4th and 5th gen! both great rigs.
Yeah... all of that is wrong and you selectively chose to use information that is misleading and disingenuous. Not to mention having nothing to do with car-to-car collisions, which is what we are talking about. Shame on you.
This is the truth about the 2005 4runner:
Driver death rates vary widely by model
That article states unequivocally that if you hit a 4runner in any other car, you die. If you are in the 4runner, everyone else dies except you. The 2005 4runner bashes the crap out of all the other cars (and occupants) in order to save its occupants in a collision. Which is not surprising considering the 4th gen 4runner has a 2x8 fully boxed 12 gauge ladder frame and Subarus do not even have a frame or any metal of any type that would stop a large SUV from completely destroying it.
So lets take a scenario, in a 65mph head-on collision between a 4th gen 4runner and ANY subaru ever created, who do you think will die?
cloudrunner
New member
Sounds like you are only going to do some very light off-roading to get to your favorite ski and hiking areas. Do yourself a favor and save even more by purchasing a 2wd 4th gen. You can find them everywhere. They are great, well built vehicles with plenty of room for hauling all of your toys and friends. 4wd is not a necessity for everyone and you would be surprised how far a 2wd 4Runner can take you. Ask me how I know.
Attachments
Some ski areas do require 4WD, though. But you can also get a pass with chains (usually) so as long as you have them and don’t mind putting them on, then that is ok.
I have gone up to Ski during a storm and was unfortunately in my old BMW (rwd). I did have snow tires and with the tail wagging the whole way, I somehow made it up. Don’t want to do that again...
Yeah, IIHS is pretty stupid. Who would really crash into a concrete wall.... while driving inside of a building? Or wear that much blue and red make up on their faces?
Your article dating back to 2005 about cars produced in 1999 was so much more relevant and informative.
wcjeep
Member
Wife has a 5th Gen. I've been looking at 4th Gens. Pricing in my area doesn't make sense to buy a 4th Gen. Decent lower mileage 4th Gen is about $1k cheaper than a 5th Gen. 5th Gen has better crash protection with standard side air bags, dash airbags and seat airbags. It seems not all 4th Gens have a backup camera or bluetooth. These things can be added. It's still additional cost.
High mileage 4th Gens are readily available. I just don't have the time to deal with the extra maintenance and repairs. Easier to buy a low mileage unit. I also prefer a manual shift transfer case that became available in the 5th Gens.
High mileage 4th Gens are readily available. I just don't have the time to deal with the extra maintenance and repairs. Easier to buy a low mileage unit. I also prefer a manual shift transfer case that became available in the 5th Gens.
Being 6'5 makes you bigger than a large majority of the world's population, so I understand your frustration with the size and agree that the B pillar is more aggressively tapered from the windows up. From my average person size perspective, it feels roomier. My shoulder is just to the front side of the B pillar, but my elbow room seems more sufficient. Also the windshield is much further and upright which makes my cabin experience much more enjoyable.
The 5th Gen uses Toyotas 8.2 diff and the 4th Gen uses the 8.0.
I agree with you they are both great trucks and I love my 4th gen. But if I had the means, I'd buy another 5th Gen.
jrm
New member
I personally
Like to be able to manually AWD while conditions change instead of waiting for the truck to determine which mode it should be in.
Like to be able to manually AWD while conditions change instead of waiting for the truck to determine which mode it should be in.
MightyP
New member
Impressive... Every word in that post was wrong. (okay, maybe not EVERY word, but close enough, I think the quote works) I'm really hoping you're trolling, because otherwise ... well... wow.
Let's start at the top, shall we?
1. He chose info in current model years. Obviously doesn't cover every model year, but it's a good starting point. Further, if you took the time to actually look at the info, you'd notice there is a tab for "Other years" where you can clearly see that Subaru is as good, if not better, than the 4runner in every category where they're both measured.
2. His information was far more genuine and objective than yours. Don't attack him as part of your argument. Shame on you. (See how lame that sounds?)
3. What exactly do you think car-to-car collisions demonstrate that car to concrete wall doesn't? Nevermind. Let me tell you. Other than the data supplied in your article (which has to simply accept a lot of unknown variables) there is no usable info.
4. So... Did you actually read the article you linked? You say it's the "truth about the 2005 4runner" but it's actually an article about... wait for it... 3rd Gen 4runners!!! Crazy, huh. The article was just published in 2005.
5. Umm... I'm going to mostly skip your monologue here. See my point in bullet 4 for why everything you said is irrelevant.
6. In your scenario, assuming both are doing 65 mph, everyone dies. Crash test ratings are at 50 mph (give or take) into a immovable object at the high end. Your scenario is effectively hitting a solid object at 130 mph. Everyone dies.
Last, and most importantly, you're not providing useful information. Your comments boil down to "Subarus suck" and "Small cars suck" and "anything not an SUV sucks." In the future, you'd be better off using the article you linked to support your belief (one I agree with) that larger cars are generally safer than smaller ones. Then, use things like Toyota's reliability and/or capability or other items to explain why you believe a 4runner is the best option for the OP.
"A" for effort.
For the record, I love my 4th Gen and I also loved my STi before.
Wow, I can't actually believe I have to write this. The article references the 2003 4runner. I'm sure you know that a 2003 4runner IS a 4th gen?
Congratulations for proving yourself completely wrong. Also, yes, the article was from 2005. Here is a more recent article which states the same thing I have been saying:
chrome-extension://oemmndcbldboiebfnladdacbdfmadadm/http://www.iihs.org/externaldata/srdata/docs/sr5203.pdf
For some concrete data from 2015: Deaths in a tin can Subaru Impreza (in 2015) are 54 per million, while the deaths per milliion in a 4runner are 9 per million.
That means that in 2015, your chances of dying in an accident in a subaru are 6 times higher than if you were in a 4runner. I would call that significant.
I know you think you are clever and all because you like Subarus and that you found some random detail and exploited it to make yourself feel better, but you are really just annoying and wrong.
I'm not sure why this would be confusing. Copy and Paste from the article:
"Fewer than 30 driver deaths per million registered years,
1999-2002 models during calendar years 2000-03"
Nice cherry picking data. Why are you bringing up the Impreza? We're talking about Outback's. No one ever mentioned the Impreza until you just brought it up. I might as well bring up the fact the Corolla has almost 6 times the death rate compared to the Outback.
Let's look at the OB and 4R. The 4R does indeed have 9 per mil; however, that is just 4WD models. 4R 2WD is at 19. Why they separate those two, I don't know. The chassis is the same, as well as the safety equipment. So, in reality, it's 28 per mil. The OB, as you can clearly see, is 12 per mil. Also note that the OB had over 2 times the exposure as the 4R.
Your claims are unfounded, as you have yet to provide any credible evidence that "...if you hit a 4runner in any other car, you die."
Have a good weekend. Stay safe. And welcome to the ignore list.
LOL! You cannot add two "rates" together from 2wd and 4wd to get a data point. I can see that you desperately read through that document to find anything at all that states Subaru's are safe. They are not. Every IIHS document from every year states that vehicle to vehicle deaths in all subarus are higher than in all 4runners.
Here is another one for people who aren't sore losers and choose to "ignore" the truth about auto safety:
Death rates vary widely by model
Hopefully when you are in an accident you are in a 4runner and not a Subaru.
pjbrownva
New member
:flamewar: :flamewar:
4 Runners are clearly safe, and being in a safe, larger car is generally a good thing (provided that the car is safe).
Back to the OP, I think you'd be happy with either vehicle. Post pictures when you decided and if you purchase something.
I want to be clear in saying that I don't think the 4Runner is unsafe in any way. I was just trying to get some facts straight for Steve Miller there, posting some outrageous and unfounded claims. He's on my ignore list, so please no one quote him so I won't have to read any more of the non-sense.
Yes, OP, either will do you fine. Have fun with whatever you get.
