4th gen vs 5th gen vs Jeep - Help Needed

[tom4416]

I am trying to do a good friend a favor and talk his wife out of a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon and into a 4Runner (at his request). I raved to her about my 4th gen, trouble free, very off road capable, retaining value, etc.. Referred her to the reliability tables for Jeep vs Toyota. It is mainly going to be used for off road geo-caching so no real rock climbing just some mild off road usage in the mountains and deserts of AZ.

Problem I just ran into is that I had her convinced the 4Runner wasn't huge (one of her concerns) and was very comfortable on the road. She turns around and talks to someone she knows who has a 5th gen and had previously owned a 4th gen. She told my friends wife she would kill to have the 4th gen back, hates the 5th gen - too big, terrible highway ride, worse fuel economy. I have a hard time believing any of that, sounds more like buyers remorse than a real problem with the vehicle. Anyway, now she's back onto the Jeep and my friend wants me to get some real input from this community about real world use of the 5th gen.

FWIW, my friend actually drives a 1977 Landcruiser in immaculate condition, converted to a 350 Chevy small block so he knows off roading and wheeling and just hates Jeeps. He's also smart enough to keep his wife happy at all costs so he has to win this "argument" with diplomacy and facts.

 

[redneckcrawler]

Very simple. Tell her to test drive the jeep down a bumpy road, one with a fair amount of potholes. Take a 4runner down the same road. If she still wants a jeep after that, tell your friend to divorce her.

 

[mteolus]

Have her watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwLCbO_j7uQ

Here is an article to read: https://jalopnik.com/new-jeep-wrangler-frame-welds-are-failing-and-now-fca-i-1829551649

Now for all you guys, this may be the only reason to buy a Jeep, but only if she comes along with it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRVjzcTUnNo&t=22s

Buddy of mine owns a 2017 JK Rubicon. My 5th Gen is way smoother and way quieter plus has much more room. Unless you are going to wheel in some place like Moab, 4Runner is hands down a winner. Plus the reliability is off the charts.

 

[ToolUser1]

not the jeep - but not the 5th gen either

I hate to say it but I'm in the same camp. When I replaced my 2000 sport after 15 years with a 2011 trail I felt the same way. After several years of adding upgrades to try and get back to the quality and utility of the 2000 I'm still not super satisfied with the 5th gen. I know that approaches heresy here but it is what it is. It's simply a fact that the 5th gen is way bigger, gets pretty much the same not really great gas mileage (17mpg vs 18.3mpg, and I keep meticulous records), the build quality is lower, the option list is shorter, etc.

The electronics simply aren't a plus for me. The heater is a tremendous minus. For me the overall size of the 5th gen is less optimal than the 3rd gen. The handling was truly bad but reached the acceptable level after throwing $1000 at it - but it's still a constant low level bummer. And there's lots of other little constant irritants like no locking gas cap, no power antenna, no cargo area light, etc., etc. etc. Most of which were standard in 2000. And after 11 years we still didn't get the limited slip center diff without all the other Limited crap.

So yeah, I'd definitely recommend a 4runner, just not the current generation. So flame away, but really only if you have lots of experience with an earlier generation and can make a realistic comparison rather than a fanboi whine.

And no it's not buyers remorse - I'm very fortunate to be able to afford pretty much any car I want within reason. I thought hard about a Land Cruiser, factoring into the price replacing a chunk of the electronics with less annoying overseas parts, but in the end the size killed it for me. So I'm making the best of the 5th gen, but wish to hell I'd taken better care of the frame on the 3rd gen as that's what finally killed it.

 

[Inv4drZm]

I hate to say it but I'm in the same camp. When I replaced my 2000 sport after 15 years with a 2011 trail I felt the same way. After several years of adding upgrades to try and get back to the quality and utility of the 2000 I'm still not super satisfied with the 5th gen. I know that approaches heresy here but it is what it is. It's simply a fact that the 5th gen is way bigger, gets pretty much the same not really great gas mileage (17mpg vs 18.3mpg, and I keep meticulous records), the build quality is lower, the option list is shorter, etc.

The electronics simply aren't a plus for me. The heater is a tremendous minus. For me the overall size of the 5th gen is less optimal than the 3rd gen. The handling was truly bad but reached the acceptable level after throwing $1000 at it - but it's still a constant low level bummer. And there's lots of other little constant irritants like no locking gas cap, no power antenna, no cargo area light, etc., etc. etc. Most of which were standard in 2000. And after 11 years we still didn't get the limited slip center diff without all the other Limited crap.

So yeah, I'd definitely recommend a 4runner, just not the current generation. So flame away, but really only if you have lots of experience with an earlier generation and can make a realistic comparison rather than a fanboi whine.

And no it's not buyers remorse - I'm very fortunate to be able to afford pretty much any car I want within reason. I thought hard about a Land Cruiser, factoring into the price replacing a chunk of the electronics with less annoying overseas parts, but in the end the size killed it for me. So I'm making the best of the 5th gen, but wish to hell I'd taken better care of the frame on the 3rd gen as that's what finally killed it.

Must have skipped over the 4th gen 4Runners, it has pretty much everything on your wishlist right? Selectable center diff, built in antenna to the rear window, little bit smaller, arguable more power with same fuel economy if you opt for the V8, less electronics, factory rear dome light.

 

[LandCruiser]

Arizona and Cali are probably dry enough that you can own a Jeep without experiencing the many joys of how they leak the outside elements into the truck, regardless of the quality of the top and doors you're using.

Either way, just tell her that FCA stoners did the welds on the trackbar and it'll likely divorce itself from the frame and try to kill her.

 

[Inv4drZm]

To me a Jeep is more easily modifiable, they make bolt-on kits to build it any way you want to as a rock-crawler, but if you won't take advantage of that aspect and plan to keep it mostly stock, you might as well buy a 4Runner. Sounds like both the 4Runner and Jeep will do fine for her offroading needs, with the 4Runner being the better road vehicle.

Though when some people get in their head exactly what they want, the only person to convince them otherwise is themselves, after they buy the Jeep and sell it for a 4Runner.

 

[wcjeep]

Check Edmunds, Car Complaints, nhtsa. Compare the two. The 2018 JL Wrangler suffers from the first model year problem.

See if they would bother to rent one for the weekend. Extended test drive is cheaper than buying the wrong one. I own an old offroad Wrangler. Given the JK and JL reliability I never considered them as a means to drive to work.

The 5th gen 4runner is about 2" wider and 3" longer than the JL 4dr Wrangler. 4runner has predictable steering and better road manners. 4runner has higher cargo and towing capacity.

The Jeep has better aftermarket support.

Have the husband pre test drive 4runner models to see which one is preferred (limited, no kdss, w/kdss). Then have wife test drive one 4runner that fits the family needs.

 

[4Reak Show]

I'd rather sign divorce papers than one check for a jeep payment

Tell him the box he's looking for reads "Irreconcilable differences"

Kidding. Jeeps are turds. I was a mechanic for 11 years and every. (EVERY) aspect of Toyota engineering and maintenance is significantly better than jeep. On Jeeps best day and Toyotas worst It would still be like having the best high school football team all stars from across the nation play scrimmage against the worst NFL teams 3rd stringers. Total annihilation.

Best day in a jeep owners life is the day he trades it for a Yota fwiw.

 

[Offwidth]

I would have bought JL Moab edition (Sahara with some Rubicon bits) with SelecTrac, if I planned to wheel it. It’s reliable enough, cheap to fix when not, and convertible factor is cool.

But I plan for extended trips to the woods and 4Runner is the only choice. And finally almost perfect size in 5th gen.

Almost wrote a check for GX460, but it’s ugly plastic hanging around, and useless fancy interior turned me off from paying extra 20k for v8.

Got off-road premium with kdss.

 

[TRD PANTHER]

I purchased my friends 2016 Jeep Rubicon “Hard Rock” for a great price as an interim vehicle after I sold my best vehicle ever, a 2001 supercharged 4x4 TRD 4Runner, and before I got my current 2018 TRD Pro 4Runner. The Jeep was never off road and was fully loaded with 285-70-17 KO2’s. What a POS! The Jeep rode terrible, rattled over every bump and wasn’t very comfortable. The build quality is terrible and the plastics are cheap. Taking the top off is a pain and a two man(person lol)job. I thought it would be a cool alternative to a 4Runner as I had driven Toyota 4x4’s as my daily drivers since 1982. After one month of considering an AEV suspension lift, 35’s etc. I ran, not walked to a Toyota dealership, which had a PRO in black that I wanted and traded it in. Luckily, I got my money back out of it and was so happy to get back into a comfortable, quality, quiet, smooth riding 4WD SUV that I think can serve me for 17.5 years like my 2001 did. Also, dealer service prices are ridiculous on the Jeep. If your plans are to go rock crawling and drive around without a top and can deal with the time and inconvenience of R&R’ing it then go for it. The problem is, that you have to drive it to where your going.

 

[chester4Run]

I've owned two Jeeps (ZJ Grand Cherokee V8, KJ Liberty CRD) and three Toyotas (95 Taco, 94 4R, 11 4R) and I have to express the (possibly unpopular given the audience) opinion that they each have their strengths. I'm not a serious offroader, but I've driven all of these vehicles offroad through roadless/pathless wooded terrain, sand, and mud as well as all kinds of on-road terrain (paved, dirt, sand, mud, logging, snow, ice, etc). It's my opinion that the suspension, traction control, and transfer case setups (in combination) on the Jeeps are more capable. It's a bunch of small things that add up to better performance in horrible traction situations.

So why do I currently own two Toyota SUVs (and a Toyota minivan)? The jeeps took a crazy amount of maintenance to keep trouble free. I don't know how anyone can afford to maintain one if they don't wrench. Differential oil every 15K...and you have to pull the cover on the rear diff. Transfer case every 25K. Transmission every 25K (and you need to drop the pan, no drain plug). Outstanding forum support that convinces you to buy/mod all kinds of things (for me it was more tempting and involved than the 4R forums). The Jeeps were as much a hobby as they were vehicles. I started listening to every rattle, knock, hum, vibration. I was looking for the next repair/upgrade/enhancement all the time. They were a lot of fun, and a lot work, and I was proud as could be of where I went in them.

But I couldn't just drive them. I can get into my toyotas, drive them like I stole them, ignore any weird noises until they get persistent, and still go pretty much all the same places. The maintenance is less frequent and easier to do (yay drain plugs!). If I were paying a mechanic to fix them it would be less labor than the Jeeps, and the labor is usually the bulk of the repair cost (though Jeep parts are usually less expensive than Toyota parts).

So, to your friend's issue, the Wrangler is in a class of its own as an open top offroader. They hold value pretty well, so even if she goes that way and hates it the pain shouldn't be too bad. The maintenance though...and they really can't touch the people and cargo capacity or the comfort of the 5th gen 4R.

If you could find a three year old version of the wrangler trim she's interested in, let her drive that and see whether she still likes it. If she does like it still, and she's excited by the smell of gear lube and RTV, she might be a Jeeper.

 

[MossJenks]

Is this going to be a long-term vehicle or just a couple of years and flip it over again? If the latter, get the Jeep just for the experience. They are fun in the summer. Long-term? Jeeps don't really go long term without some serious maintenance and repairs. The transmissions have long been a big Achilles Heal. A Runner (any vintage) will go several 100k miles relatively trouble free.

 

[rkwfxd]

OP

Why do you even care what vehicle your buddy's wife gets?







You gave her your opinion now step away.

 

[Matt_in_MI]

She really needs to drive the 5th gen and a Jeep, and then decide for herself what she wants. If it's going to be her vehicle, she needs to make that decision on her own.

 

[bbermann]

She really needs to drive the 5th gen and a Jeep, and then decide for herself what she wants. If it's going to be her vehicle, she needs to make that decision on her own.

Agreed.

I have both vehicles- 2012 Jeep JKU and 2018 4Runner ORP

Both modded and lifted a little.

The Jeep reliability has been great.

They are both great but quite different. If one wants a capable vehicle which is also spacious and comfortable, go 4Runner. If one wants a smaller capable vehicle with less room, rougher on the road and will take advantage of the removable front roof panels and back top, go Jeep.

My thoughts are: if you are not taking advantage of some of the cool stuff unique to the Jeep Wrangler, the novelty likely will wear off.

 

[Orc]

Jeep is designed for specific needs and has capabilities designed into the vehicle that if arent taken advantage of are simply an annoyance. Removing tops, doors even the windshield, are for serious jeepers and when people use jeeps as cars well...

 

[slowveloce]

Is it the vehicle she needs/wants or the lifestyle she wants to exude? Lots of people ride Harleys when a Honda or Yamaha may be a much better choice. You can't argue with that thinking with logic one way or the other.

 

[BaddaBing]

Four of my friends wives have purchased 4 door Wranglers in the last two years. Two of my friends had me tell wives how much I liked my 4Runner for the same reason, they didn’t want a Wrangler. 10 years ago I rarely saw women who owned and drove Wranglers as daily drivers. Today Wranglers are the Hot vehicle for women in my area. They like to customize to add personal flair and they love to remove top and doors in warm weather. Non of my friends wives ever go off road and love their Jeeps. The fact that Wranglers now come in 4 doors have made the decision even easier for the ladies. All of the women I have mentioned have children. 1 lady said all of the ladies at her Cross Fit gym drive Wranglers and that is all she wanted.
Tell your buddy to let her get what she wants. If he talks her into a 4Runner and she doesn’t love it she will make him miserable. Just get on board and help her pick out a nice one.

 

[tom4416]

OP

Why do you even care what vehicle your buddy's wife gets?

You gave her your opinion now step away.

That's kind of the point of this thread. I'll send him a link to it as a guest, he can let her read the viewpoints of other people, look at some of the resources quoted here and then perhaps make a more informed and less emotional decision. I'm the gearhead in our social circle so am sometimes considered an authority and, sometimes wives tend to listen to outside opinions more than their husbands if they think their husband is predisposed to think a certain way. She will buy what she wants - doesn't need anyone's permission, has plenty of her own money but she also asked me for my opinion which is what got her interested in a 4R but then she talked to one actual owner and completely changed her opinion. I'm thinking that one opinion may have been skewed and that people here, even though also skewed, can compare generations since many have owned more than one and there are also a lot of former Jeep owners here as well.