4th Gen Warped Rotors

[NCSCOTT]

Hello all,

My 04 V-6 2x4 SR5 is starting to feel like it has warped the rotors (assuming the front) w/ just 29k miles on it. Has anyone else out there had any brake problems.

My knowledge of brakes is pretty good. I have always done my own brake work on every vehicle I've owned and some for family to include GM, Ford, Chrysler, Hondas, and Nissan, ect... from 82s-00s. I never turn rotors. If they are warped or too thin I just replace them. Once they are turned they just seem to warp twice as fast the second time. Less metal left to dissipate heat.

If anyone else has experienced this please let me know what you found.

Thanks,
NCSCOTT

 

[bryancos]

I've got just over 19K on my 03, and there are times at highways speeds when braking where the vehicle seems to shake when the brakes were applied. I've not yet taken it in have it looked at, as I've not noticed the shaking driving around town. Let us know what you find out.

 

[toybox]

Hello all,

My 04 V-6 2x4 SR5 is starting to feel like it has warped the rotors (assuming the front) w/ just 29k miles on it. Has anyone else out there had any brake problems.

My knowledge of brakes is pretty good. I have always done my own brake work on every vehicle I've owned and some for family to include GM, Ford, Chrysler, Hondas, and Nissan, ect... from 82s-00s. I never turn rotors. If they are warped or too thin I just replace them. Once they are turned they just seem to warp twice as fast the second time. Less metal left to dissipate heat.

If anyone else has experienced this please let me know what you found.

Thanks,
NCSCOTT

I had this with about 10k on the truck. The dealer resurfaced them for nothing and they supprisingly have not re-warped. I have 21k on the truck now.

Take it to the dealer. It is under warranty as this is not "normal wear". My dealer did not argue but I was ready to fight about it.

 

[NCSCOTT]

I thought about the dealer but most warranties on brakes end at 12k or 12 months. I am past both. I guess it would not hurt to try. I did buy the 4Runner and a 05 Camry new from them in the last 13 months from the same dealer/salesman. Hopefully that might account for something.

I will keep the thread post on how it goes.

Thanks.

 

[beeper]

I had same problem with last truck(2003 Sorento) warped rotors at 19000,brakes are not part of the 60000 mi warrentee. But dealer resurfaced them after telling me it was probably hard driving which was BS.then again at 29000 and I bitched about defect. They fix again but there was nothing left of rotors...$175 each for replacement. Sold it at 32000.

Thought this problem was behind me with the 4runner. The dealer will probably help you if you don't give them an attitude. Pease keep us up to date on the fix,thanks.

 

[ToolmanJohn]

Warrantable repair

Mine also developed brake shudder at about 10K miles. The dealer resurfaced the front rotors and the problem went away.

The 4runner has a 3 year , 36,000 mile warranty. Only wear items are not covered (wiper blades, filters, oil, brake PADS, ect.). The rotors are definitely covered.

 

[rossmon1]

Brakes

I was a licensed California brake inspector for a number of years when i used to be a mechanic and I turned hundreds of rotors on a brake lathe. I never had a callback for warped rotors. I always measured the rotor with a micrometer, b4 and after and stuck religously to spec. So it's gotta make me think that if someone complains about warped rotors maybe they are just burning up the brakes with a heavy foot or some extreme driving. The Toy rotors on my SE look very robust imnsho.
Also to be warped the rotors must be out of true when measured at different degrees of a circle. Ridges, grooves, etc worn into the rotor from wear and tear cause vibes judder etc and are easily cured by turning on a lathe. A warped rotor is a much more difficult item to repair and you may run out of thickness easily when truing it.

 

[gac689]

Rossmo1, I am having the same shuddering problem when I apply my brakes now at 21,000. I can honestly tell you that I am not a hard driver , but now my brakes feel soft and I get that shimmy in the steering wheel when I apply moderate pressure to the brakes ( only happens during braking). If I bring the runner to the dealer, what should I ask them to do if resurfacing the rotor is a bad idea? Should I ask them to just put it on a lathe? ( Will they look at me incredulously and think " what's this broad talking about?) Thanks for any suggestions!

 

[toybox]

Rossmo1, I am having the same shuddering problem when I apply my brakes now at 21,000. I can honestly tell you that I am not a hard driver , but now my brakes feel soft and I get that shimmy in the steering wheel when I apply moderate pressure to the brakes ( only happens during braking). If I bring the runner to the dealer, what should I ask them to do if resurfacing the rotor is a bad idea? Should I ask them to just put it on a lathe? ( Will they look at me incredulously and think " what's this broad talking about?) Thanks for any suggestions!

Putting it on a lathe is resurfacing them. Shuddering is different from warped and should be cured by resurfacing.

 

[NCSCOTT]

Warped verses Shuddering?????

Putting it on a lathe is resurfacing them. Shuddering is different from warped and should be cured by resurfacing.

Thank you for the replys.

I am not trying to be a smart@ss here but if the rotors are warped wouldn't they cause the vehicle to shudder or I quess a better way to discribe it is the vehicle is surging to a stop. As if you were lightly pulsating the brake pedal. I guess to me they are the same. If warped rotors do not cause shuddering. What does????

I had the rotors turned on my 96 2wd 1500 dodge and within 12 months they warped again. I replaced the rotors and over 3 years went approx. 60-70k miles, replaced the pads twice but never had to replace or resurface the rotors again.

My wife drove a 98 cavalier sedan LS w/ quad 4 and it warped the rotors at 6k miles. It was a lease vehicle and we had the brake rotor resurfaced or replaced 6 times in 45k miles under warranty everytime. It would never make 12mths or 12k without warping the rotors or drums. My wife drove the car 90% of the time and she is not hard on the brakes. I felt in this case the brakes were undersized/underdesigned for the car.

Thanks,
NCSCOTT

 

[toybox]

Re: Warped verses Shuddering?????

Thank you for the replys.

I am not trying to be a smart@ss here but if the rotors are warped wouldn't they cause the vehicle to shudder or I quess a better way to discribe it is the vehicle is surging to a stop. As if you were lightly pulsating the brake pedal. I guess to me they are the same. If warped rotors do not cause shuddering. What does????

I had the rotors turned on my 96 2wd 1500 dodge and within 12 months they warped again. I replaced the rotors and over 3 years went approx. 60-70k miles, replaced the pads twice but never had to replace or resurface the rotors again.

My wife drove a 98 cavalier sedan LS w/ quad 4 and it warped the rotors at 6k miles. It was a lease vehicle and we had the brake rotor resurfaced or replaced 6 times in 45k miles under warranty everytime. It would never make 12mths or 12k without warping the rotors or drums. My wife drove the car 90% of the time and she is not hard on the brakes. I felt in this case the brakes were undersized/underdesigned for the car.

Thanks,
NCSCOTT

Well I certainly could be wrong but I'm thinking there is surface "warping" and the whole rotor being warped. The former causing "shudder".

Maybe warping is not a good term to describe what causes brakes to shudder. either way resurfacing should take care of the problem.

 

[Koz]

From years of experience I can tell you that there are many reasons why rotors can warp. Heat is the popular rotor killer. This can be caused by several reasons; one cause is letting the pads get worn. Some vehicle's brake pads can reach the wear indicators and then be replaced with no problems. Some pads need to be changed about half worn, each vehicle is different. What happens is the pad itself dissipates and transfers heat to the rotors and calipers. As the pad wears it will transfer more heat to them. So from experience/time you need to know if your vehicle's brake pads need to be changed sooner. Also contaminants can get on your rotors and/or pads and cause the pads to glaze, which warp a rotor in no time. Sometimes the cleaning solution sprayed on wheels/rotors/calipers can cause glazing or wash away need caliper lubricants. You could put new rotors and pads on and still warp the rotors because you didn't clean (oil/dirt from your hands) the pads and rotor before installing.

Warped rotors from overheating may cause the calipers not retract the pads properly and warp brand new rotors (pads dragging on the rotors).

Once a rotor is warped or pads get glazed you need to try and find out what caused it. Sometimes the wheels/rotors are very hot from normal use and water is sprayed on to clean the wheels, this can cause the rotors to warp. Sometimes the brake fluid is contaminated and will cause overheating. Sometimes not torqueing the lugs to spec and/or using the wrong torque pattern will cause the rotors to warp. You may have to slightly scuff/turn the rotors/pads. This is the only time I would pay to (slightly) turn the rotors. Usually when a rotor is cut they will warp soon after. If you think about it, the rotor already warped and now there is just less metal to dissipate the heat.

Sometimes the only way to fix the problem is to do a complete brake job. Part of the complete job would be to use/refer to a repair manual. If your vehicle doesn't have a history of brake problems, I recommend using OEM parts (Toyota parts are very good). Sometimes caliper parts need to be greased (this is where cleaning solutions and power washing the wheels could cause problems). Be careful that the grease doesn't get on the pads or rotors. Replace the pads and rotors. I scuff the new pads (with sand paper) and completely clean the new rotors with brake cleaner (I usually use one can of brake cleaner per wheel). If you have a vehicle that does have a history of let

 

[rossmon1]

brakes

Rossmo1, I am having the same shuddering problem when I apply my brakes now at 21,000. I can honestly tell you that I am not a hard driver , but now my brakes feel soft and I get that shimmy in the steering wheel when I apply moderate pressure to the brakes ( only happens during braking). If I bring the runner to the dealer, what should I ask them to do if resurfacing the rotor is a bad idea? Should I ask them to just put it on a lathe? ( Will they look at me incredulously and think " what's this broad talking about?) Thanks for any suggestions!

They will know what you are talking about and be impressed!
I am not experienced with 4runners and how they wear on brakes
, my 1st one has 1100 miles. But here are some things to ponder.
Drivers vary to a great extent. I am one who uses brakes much less than most. I watch the traffic closely, always leave a cushion and react quickly and tend to be able to regulate speed with the throttle. When I lead rallies of exotic cars, many guys following me get spooked cause i generally don't brake much or at all even going into turns. OTOH you have drivers that brake constantly, their brake lites are always on and they have very little confidence, throttle control or driver acumen.
I assume u are somewheres inbetween.
At 21000 miles i could easily expect your pads 2b worn and very possibly the rotors ridged and in need of trueing. Pads can also be crystalized and so can the rotors. These toyota rotors are large and ventilated with 4wheel disks, but the truck is pretty heavy. I could see all sorts of wear and tear and its a lose lose situation to try and comment in more than generalities w/o be able to see the vehicle in question or the driver. There are some other indications of driver useage such as, are your brake pedals worn from constant / hard use, do the tires look particularly worn in some way or is the alignment / balance out and contributing to poor break feel.
Has the brake fluid been flushed / system bled for those with soft pedals. The more sophisticated the brake system the more they seem to be affected by fluid that has absorbed H2O especially in wet climates. The 05 master cylinder that I have looks real complex with many things on it that are firsts for me 2c.

So bottom line for you gac689 is that a front end inspection and brake inspection can't hurt in order to solve your brake problem and inspect the condition of your tires/alignment/ and the front end steering/suspension hardware.

 

[gac689]

Thanks to all of you! I have an appointment on Friday at Toyota so we'll see what happens!

 

[bryancos]

I took mine in last week and they agreed that the pads/rotors would be replaced under warranty. Unfortunately, they didn't have all the parts to do both the front and rear as they planned, so I'm taking it back tomorrow morning. They also noticed some tire wear and the 4R will be getting an alignment too.

 

[Kanab]

Not seeing a warp problem with the SE model, but the SE's come with the bigger rotors

 

[greasefingers]

My rotors are just starting to warp. I can feel them shudder, only under hard braking. Otherwise they feel fine. I am going to have them cut at the local auto store and throw on front pads. I never use new pads without having the rotors cut or replacing all together. There is nothing special about brake pads so I will find anyone other than the dealer for these.

I will be very interested to see if the rotors are solid cast iron. This is the cause of many warped rotors. I have a jeep and the rotors have to be replaced every 20 to 30k miles. They use a composite rotor. Cast iron as a core and some other steel on either side. Solid rotors are the same thickness throughout. Composites are stepped and have two different thickness

 

[Kanab]

My rotors are just starting to warp. I can feel them shudder, only under hard braking. Otherwise they feel fine. I am going to have them cut at the local auto store and throw on front pads. I never use new pads without having the rotors cut or replacing all together. There is nothing special about brake pads so I will find anyone other than the dealer for these.

I will be very interested to see if the rotors are solid cast iron. This is the cause of many warped rotors. I have a jeep and the rotors have to be replaced every 20 to 30k miles. They use a composite rotor. Cast iron as a core and some other steel on either side. Solid rotors are the same thickness throughout. Composites are stepped and have two different thickness’ too them. Turning a composite rotor will only last about 10k miles before it warps again. Solids ones can be turned/resurfaced two times before tossing them in the bin. Of course it depends on how much material was removed. My tr4 has 40k miles, so I will bite the bullet, but I still think it is too early for pads.

If its warped I replace never turn rotors, just end up doing the job again in half the time, I find it costs less just to replace when needed (might be different, if you do all the work yourself). I normally just replace pads and go from there.

 

[greasefingers]

I use the term

 

[DaveS]

I have a jeep and the rotors have to be replaced every 20 to 30k miles.

That is ridiculous in my opinion - but my experience with a Chrysler has been the same - the dealer commented that they replace pads and rotors together because the rotors wear so fast- I asked if they make them out of chocolate nowadays but he didn't appreciate my sense of humor...

We can probably expect this kind of thing to get worse as well since a lot of North American manufacturers are cuttting down weight to enhance mpg by using composites more and more. I am waiting for Chrysler to introduce the first plastic transmission next....