4WD Toyota Magazine article upsets me.

[RL Lemke]

The Nov/Dec issue of 4WD Toyota Owner has a

 

[mav75]

RL, I am totally with you! In the mid size SUV category, nothing comes close to the 4Runner in performance, value, and quality. I picked it over the Sequoia because of the price difference, power to weight ratio, and the better maneuverability.

As far as price compared to the others in its class, it's no worse than an Explorer or a Durango. I bet the writer of that article drives one of those, realized his mistake in buying one, and is now pissed off at the world.

 

[RL Lemke]

The only other mid-sized SUV I considered before buying the 4Runner was the Toureg. I had the notion that the V10 diesel diesel Toureg would be a blast to own. However, I wanted a SUV that would not leave me stranded on the side of the road, let alone being helpless in the middle of a national forest.

The Sequoia is a large SUV in my book. I guess that makes the Mommy-Burb, and even worse Excursion, a really fat SUV. None of these fit on the trails I drive.

Backing-up is an issue few seem to consider. With the factory tinted windows, backing down a tree covered trail is difficult. The 4Runner's opening rear window make all the difference in the world.

 

[Gromulus]

Price vs. Performance

You guys said it all. Unfortunately not all consumers (or even magazine editors) do their product research and testing before drawing these conclusions.

In the world of "true" SUVs, nothing matches the 4Runner when considering a balance of on and off-road performance, comfort, efficency, handling, towing ability, and RELIABILITY!

 

[RunnerUp]

are you talking about the new 4wd toyota owners mag? i havent gotten my issue yet... did he actually say the sequia was a better choice than the 4runner? wow, for who? people who drive to soccer practice?

 

[RL Lemke]

are you talking about the new 4wd toyota owners mag? i havent gotten my issue yet... did he actually say the sequia was a better choice than the 4runner? wow, for who? people who drive to soccer practice?

Yes, the new magazine. When I subscribed thru Amazon, they quickly sent the first issue. The quote is from the Toyota 4WD history article in the second issue.

With Sequoia write-up, the author said that it was a capable off-road vehicle. Well, compared to most soccer mommy SUVs. Compared to any generation of the 4Runner?

I think the author's problem with the 4th generation 4Runner must be the increase in size. I find that the extra width over the previous versions made for a lot safer street vehicle, as the center of gravity dropped quite a bit. While wider than the previous 4Runners, I think Toyota built a lot of off-road ability into the 4th generation.

Yes, the 4th generation 4Runner is a good mall maid too. It is just that the undercarriage has the ability to be easily modified to provide dependable off-road capability.

I watched a 3rd gen 4Runner make an emergency movement on the freeway, right in front of me. They rolled the 4Runner right over the baracade. The 4th gen is a fraction as likely to roll over. Now that I have a 3" lift, my total vehicle height matches the Lexus GX470. So, I expect that my center of gravity is the same or even a bit lower that the stock GX. I feel safe enough, as it relates to roll over. Yet, the greatly increased ground clearance allows me to ride over rocks and trees that caused me problems when I had the stock 9+ inches of ground clearance.

Thus, I think I have the best of all worlds in my 4Runner. Safe handling on the road, and very good off road capability. The Donahoe front suspension is world class, supple when slow, and solid when driving hard. I have given-up a headroom compared to the GX, in exchange for a lower center of gravity.

The 4Runner is the tool that meets my needs just fine. Seldom at a mall, my 4Runner spends part of each working day off road, and most weekends in the woods. I have no interest in wood trim, heated seats (here in Texas), leather/vinyl seats, DVD screen, etc...

Yes, it costs a bit more to take a stock 4th gen 4Runner and add the suspension it should have come with. Just compare the total cost of my 4Runner with any of the other mid-sized SUVs. The Toyota is a great value.

 

[RonMAIDEN]

What's the clearance of the rear diff on a 4th gen? Lowest point on the front end?

 

[RL Lemke]

What's the clearance of the rear diff on a 4th gen? Lowest point on the front end?

The same as stock, plus the extra bit I get running BFG KOs in back.

In the front it is something over 12. I slide under the front to change my oil with it sitting in the garage.

I installed the oil filter relocation kit without lifting the front wheels. The 3" lift made all the difference in the world. The approach, departure, and break-over angles sure seem much improved. When off roading, I used to hit on the front skid plate a lot, now it is very seldom that the skid plate is ever thouched.

 

[paulnohio]

Yey, the article sucks. Remember, most of the individuals writing these articles are very subjective. So, take what they say with a grain of salt. Most are older, "diehard" domestic fans raised to believe that Ford, Chevy, and Dodge rule the earth and buying anything else isn't "American"! But, I think we can all agree that our beloved 4Runners are built in Japan where management takes quality EXTREMELY serious. I have driven all of the domestic competition, and there IS a difference in ride quality and build quality. The domestics have gotten better. But, Toyota vehicles obviously have a reputation and its due to the simple fact that the they have extremely high expecations and quality requirements. No domestic competitors have these stringent requirements and vehicles that leave their plants are much more likely to be "overlooked" and "acceptible" when the vehicles were in a unacceptible condition. I love what you do for me....Toyota:awais:

 

[Jeff Kleb]

4Runner vs The Competition

Yey, the article sucks. Remember, most of the individuals writing these articles are very subjective. So, take what they say with a grain of salt. Most are older, "diehard" domestic fans raised to believe that Ford, Chevy, and Dodge rule the earth and buying anything else isn't "American"! But, I think we can all agree that our beloved 4Runners are built in Japan where management takes quality EXTREMELY serious. I have driven all of the domestic competition, and there IS a difference in ride quality and build quality. The domestics have gotten better. But, Toyota vehicles obviously have a reputation and its due to the simple fact that the they have extremely high expecations and quality requirements. No domestic competitors have these stringent requirements and vehicles that leave their plants are much more likely to be "overlooked" and "acceptible" when the vehicles were in a unacceptible condition. I love what you do for me....Toyota:awais:

Another thing that swayed me to the 4Runner (my first SUV ever) is the resale value. I got mine with a 36-month/36,000-mile closed-end lease. Since the residual value is much higher than a Durango or Explorer with similar equipment......the monthly payment is a lot lower.

Even though I don't plan to "off road" my truck, modify it in any way or attack eight feet of snow, I like knowing that my vehicle is capable of much more than I could throw at it. I drive a heavy-duty commercial truck for a living (air brakes, air suspension, air horn -- the works), so I have always believed in having more truck than you need - instead of pushing a less-capable vehicle beyond its limits with potentially unpleasant results.

Anyway, I really don't think anything else on the market holds a candle to the 4Runner, although the next-best thing just might be the redesigned Nissan Pathfinder. My 'second car' is a Nissan Sentra ('02 GXE), and it does what it is supposed to do as a commuter vehicle; although it is definitely not in the same category as my Toyota.

Happy Thanksgiving to all of you!!!!

 

[Uneek]

IMO, there simply is no comparison to the 4Runner, in terms of look, capability and reliability. My mom asked if there is another vehicle that is lower in sticker price, but for the options I want, mainly navigation, I can't go lower and there is no alternative. It's 4R or nothing.

I tried looking at the Pathfinder, but I can bring myself to like its fugly looks. The rear side window looks like a slab of glass, rear hatch looks like a wall and the front end looks like a big smilie face, just like the rear of 03-05 Accord sedans. Much like this:

 

[RunnerUp]

Yey, the article sucks. Remember, most of the individuals writing these articles are very subjective. So, take what they say with a grain of salt. Most are older, "diehard" domestic fans raised to believe that Ford, Chevy, and Dodge rule the earth and buying anything else isn't "American"! :awais:

do you have a subscription to this mag? the reason i paid 19.95 for it is because it is all toyota, all the time. im reasonably sure that anyone writing for this magazine drives toyotas. if i were a 4th gen owner, i would prob. hop on yotatech and ask the owner why that comment was made. and if you do that, please include a link

 

[4WDToyOwnMag]

thanks for the feedback

Dear RL and board members,

Great feedback! In fact, RL, I'd like to run it as a letter in our next issue, if you don't mind (let me know).

I totally appreciate your viewpoints. The 4th gen is an excellent vehicle! We wrote general comments about each vehicle, but by no means do we think it's a lame truck. Nor did we mean to imply that those buying a 4R are incapable of buying a Sequoia or LC, or that those trucks are better Toyotas. I can see how it came across that way--we're sorry.

For those that haven't seen the article, it's called "History Lesson" where we showed most of the 4WD Toyotas released in the US and a one-to-three paragraph bio on each. They included 4Runner, Land Cruiser, Tundra, Tacoma, Sequoia, T100, mini pickup, light use (RAV4, Highlander).

I stand by that they can be expensive:

Model:

4x4 Limited V8 (8688)
$38,385
Delivery, Handling and Processing Fee:**
$605
Options:
$7,190
DVD Navigation System w/JBL AM/FM/CD and Backup Camera, Daytime Running Lights, Driver & Front Passenger Side Airbags and Front & Second-Row Roll-Sensing Side Curtain Airbags w/Cutoff Switch, Power Tilt/Slide Moonroof, Rear Air Suspension w/X-REAS Shocks, Rear Seat DVD Entertainment System w/2 Wireless Headphones, Rear Audio Controls & 115-Volt Power Outlet, Rear Spoiler w/Center High-Mounted Stop Lamp, X-REAS Shock Absorbers

Accessories:
6-Disc CD Changer (P9)
$570
Front Skid Plate (S0)
$179

_Total MSRP:***
$46,929

Let's say you're in California--add approx $3754 in taxes. $50,683 is a lot of dough! It's the high end of the price range, but it's still certainly possible--and I can think of a lot of professions, police officers and teachers included, who don't make that much in a year of salary! So although there are indeed cheaper 4Runners, the high end ones are quite a bit more expensive that their predecessors..

Anyway, great feedback. I'm not here to cut hairs over prices. The 4th gen rocks, and is a great Toyota. We'd own one in a minute. Oh, and we all own and drive Toyotas.

Please stay in touch, and thanks! I take all feedback seriously.

Dave

 

[Thai]

Re: thanks for the feedback

Let's say you're in California--add approx $3754 in taxes. $50,683 is a lot of dough! It's the high end of the price range, but it's still certainly possible--and I can think of a lot of professions, police officers and teachers included, who don't make that much in a year of salary! So although there are indeed cheaper 4Runners, the high end ones are quite a bit more expensive that their predecessors..

Dave, while the $50K MSRP is quite high for a midsize SUV (from a non-luxury brand), you need to remember that NO ONE pays MSRP nowadays for a 4runner. The 4th gen 4runner has been out for a few years now...so, the 4runner should no longer command full MSRP. I would bet that you can get that same 4runner (listed by you above) around $45k or even lower.

Although $45K is still $10k more than a 3rd gen Limited in 2002, the 4th gen has A LOT more options, including DVD Navi, JBL sound system, side-curtain airbags, memory seats, full-time 4wd or Multi-mode 4wd, etc. In addition, the 4th gen has a lot more metal to produce (aka much bigger) than the 3rd gen and can be optioned with the mighty 4.7L V8, as compared with the relatively meager 3.4L V6 (only engine available for 3rd gen).

At $45K, the 4runner can match option-for-option with many LUXURY SUVs at the same price range. Also i would consider the fact that you STILL can get a basic 4runner at around $30K or lower. And you still would have more stuff in it than a 3rd gen 4runner Limited.

 

[RunnerUp]

ok... not to hijack but how the hell do i get a picture of my truck in the members ride section of your magazine, and i am really impressed that you came on this board and that is why i will continue to order your mag as long as you produce it, i really love everything in it, esp. this months story about "steep and deep" now to just get some pics of my truck doing those water crossings.....


and wow, the 4th gen is really expensive, i know when i looked at an 05 limited i could pick it up for right around 38 with the v8 and 4wd... pretty expensive, but in my eyes its still true to its roots, even though it might have become a little more refined, but the 3rd gen was refined from the w2nd gen.... now just to see what they will come out with next.

 

[Koz]

Re: thanks for the feedback

Dear RL and board members,

Great feedback! In fact, RL, I'd like to run it as a letter in our next issue, if you don't mind (let me know).

I totally appreciate your viewpoints. The 4th gen is an excellent vehicle! We wrote general comments about each vehicle, but by no means do we think it's a lame truck. Nor did we mean to imply that those buying a 4R are incapable of buying a Sequoia or LC, or that those trucks are better Toyotas. I can see how it came across that way--we're sorry.

For those that haven't seen the article, it's called "History Lesson" where we showed most of the 4WD Toyotas released in the US and a one-to-three paragraph bio on each. They included 4Runner, Land Cruiser, Tundra, Tacoma, Sequoia, T100, mini pickup, light use (RAV4, Highlander).

I stand by that they can be expensive:

Model:

4x4 Limited V8 (8688)
$38,385
Delivery, Handling and Processing Fee:**
$605
Options:
$7,190
DVD Navigation System w/JBL AM/FM/CD and Backup Camera, Daytime Running Lights, Driver & Front Passenger Side Airbags and Front & Second-Row Roll-Sensing Side Curtain Airbags w/Cutoff Switch, Power Tilt/Slide Moonroof, Rear Air Suspension w/X-REAS Shocks, Rear Seat DVD Entertainment System w/2 Wireless Headphones, Rear Audio Controls & 115-Volt Power Outlet, Rear Spoiler w/Center High-Mounted Stop Lamp, X-REAS Shock Absorbers

Accessories:
6-Disc CD Changer (P9)
$570
Front Skid Plate (S0)
$179

_Total MSRP:***
$46,929

Let's say you're in California--add approx $3754 in taxes. $50,683 is a lot of dough! It's the high end of the price range, but it's still certainly possible--and I can think of a lot of professions, police officers and teachers included, who don't make that much in a year of salary! So although there are indeed cheaper 4Runners, the high end ones are quite a bit more expensive that their predecessors..

Anyway, great feedback. I'm not here to cut hairs over prices. The 4th gen rocks, and is a great Toyota. We'd own one in a minute. Oh, and we all own and drive Toyotas.

Please stay in touch, and thanks! I take all feedback seriously.

Dave

I disagree completely. I have a loaded 05 V8 Limited with all the goodies, Nav, side curtain air bags, auto leveling rear air suspension, etc. and I paid $39K. I compared it to all the other mid-sized SUVs and the 4Runner was the best bang for the buck, period!

Koz

 

[RL Lemke]

price per pound?

When I purchased my 2004 4Runner SE, I considered very few other vehicles. That is because I am very specific in my needs, which were discussed earlier.

I am finding that many new vehicle buyers are more concerned about the most vehicle they can get for their dollar. That being said, there are quite a number of domestic pickups that can be purchased at very attractive prices. Price per pound that is.

As SUVs and pickups continue to grow each year, the lane widths and trail widths don't.

IMHO, a vehicle is far more than the weight of it's parts. Bigger is seldom better.

 

[greasefingers]

Expensive is relative. Yes I believe it is a good value. But considering the national household Income is close to owning a new Limited; then yes it

 

[LeeRunner]

How much is fully loaded Limited Sequoia Rav4 or Hilander? Even loaded Tacoma and Thundra are very expensive. It makes no sense to make price issue point with only 4Runner and not others. Good new 4Runner is only $28,000.00

 

[NCSCOTT]

How much is fully loaded Limited Sequoia Rav4 or Hilander? Even loaded Tacoma and Thundra are very expensive. It makes no sense to make price issue point with only 4Runner and not others. Good new 4Runner is only $28,000.00

I was $1800 upside down in my trade when I got my 04 in April of 04 and I still ended up out the door (OTD) less than $29700.00 with 3.99% APR for a SR5 V-6 2X4. Granted mine has very few options (Only 17" wheels, Leather steering wheel, Floor mats, Roof Rack). For what I paid at the time, I could not have gotten anything from the Big 3 that even came close. There were no Employee price promos then. You take out that negative and I would have been below the 28k mark OTD.

I love my truck and now that the Wife has finished college and is working I have a few more mods planned. Soon to come K&N FIPK kit. Thanks again Vandert. I picked up his slightly used kit on Ebay. When I get it installed I can say part of my Truck has run 110MPH on the audibaun (Please excuse spelling).

Less than a year later I bought a 05 Camry to replace our car. I've gone Toyota and will never go back. :driving: