4WD vs AWD Question

M

Mvm

New member
I've had plenty of AWD vehicles, but this is my first 4WD vehicle (2017 Off Road).

I was a little taken aback when I first drove in 4Hi and went to put it back in 2WD and had the lever refuse to go back into 2WD. Also with the different behavior in turning into things like driveways and feeling the decreased turning radius. I finally figured out that this is normal behavior and got accustomed to some of the quirks of 4WD (read the forum).

A question I have is it it OK to use 4Hi in the "in between times"?

I consider these to be, not off road driving, but driving on the highway in slippery conditions (rain or wet road with possibility of freezing conditions). Not running through snow on the road, but wet, or possibly freezing conditions where black ice is a possibility, but not a surety.

I mentioned this to a service rep while I was having a rattle checked and he was horrified that I might be using 4Hi in these types of conditions as 4Hi was "only for off road use".

Driving up to the mountains (CA Sierra Nevada), I don't want to be stuck in 2WD while all the Audis, Subies, and everyone else is in AWD. The conditions can quickly change when going from sea level to 7,000 ft.

(I know I can read the manual but wanted to get responses from the forum)
 
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I agree with your Service Rep. 4wd Hi should only be used for low traction environments. It sounds like reading the owners manual would answer some of your questions. Wet pavement does not usually count as a low traction environment.

You purchased the Off Road. The rear locker has the ability to get you further into trouble. I mean really stuck. Know your skills and terrain. Save the locker for getting out of trouble, not into trouble.
 
4HI should only be used in conditions where your wheels can slip significantly (e.g. dirt, snow, ice) and not on surface streets or in the rain.

I was concerned about being relegated to 2WD too while deciding between the Limited and TRD Pro. I went with the TRD Pro and here are my observations:

1) If you're going to drive in snow, slush, or ice you need to invest in proper tires (3 peak mountain snowflake). 4WD and AWD can only get you as far as the friction between your tires and the road allow.
2) My TRD Pro, in 2WD, with BFG KO2s, is extremely capable up on the windy roads up to Tahoe. I feel confident driving at higher speeds on wet roads and roads with fresh snow or slush while in 2WD because of my tires. I usually find myself passing all sorts of SUVs and sedans with FT 4WD/AWD because they're typically riding on all-season tires.
3) If the road conditions are bad enough to warrant 4WD I will slow down and switch to 4HI (have to be traveling < 50mph) and likely stay at that reduced speed.

In the annoying times where the road goes from relatively dry (or slightly wet) to slippery/slushy/snowy/icy and back again I usually leave it in 2WD and reduce my speed accordingly. If you're worried about black ice reduce your speed and don't panic steer/brake if you hit it. If it makes you feel better, in the 3 years I've been driving to Tahoe during storms I've only hit black ice once--this was during a particularly bad storm last year.
 
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engineeer said:
4HI should only be used in conditions where your wheels can slip significantly (e.g. dirt, snow, ice) and not on surface streets or in the rain.

I was concerned about being relegated to 2WD too while deciding between the Limited and TRD Pro. I went with the TRD Pro and here are my observations:

1) If you're going to drive in snow, slush, or ice you need to invest in proper tires (3 peak mountain snowflake). 4WD and AWD can only get you as far as the friction between your tires and the road allow.
2) My TRD Pro, in 2WD, with BFG KO2s, is extremely capable up on the windy roads up to Tahoe. I feel confident driving at higher speeds on wet roads and roads with fresh snow or slush while in 2WD because of my tires. I usually find myself passing all sorts of SUVs and sedans with FT 4WD/AWD because they're typically riding on all-season tires.
3) If the road conditions are bad enough to warrant 4WD I will slow down and switch to 4HI (have to be traveling < 50mph) and likely stay at that reduced speed.

In the annoying times where the road goes from relatively dry (or slightly wet) to slippery/slushy/snowy/icy and back again I usually leave it in 2WD and reduce my speed accordingly. If you're worried about black ice reduce your speed and don't panic steer/brake if you hit it. If it makes you feel better, in the 3 years I've been driving to Tahoe during storms I've only hit black ice once--this was during a particularly bad storm last year.
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I don't feel my ko2 do well on wet roads.


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Rightside Up said:
Mine don't. Once they get around 12-15,000 miles on them they become hard.
When mine on my Jeep get worn down some more, I'm done with them.
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Don't quote me on it, but I think the KO2s have little or no silica and silane compounds. Which usually means a harder tire when cold and may explain poor traction when its wet and cold. The tread pattern and sipping seemed to be enough to get a 3PMSF rating (a paid for certification based on a battery of tests).
 
yes it's made for offroad use,
but I also use it in-between when the roads are wet and the weather is tricky, and there might be black ice around the corner. I worked with somebody that claimed "4x4 is for when you're stuck" and he rolled his brand new jeep on the way to the office on a slippery road. In 2wd. I would much prefer to replace 4x4 components than to wind up in a ditch because I was driving in 2wd on wet roads hovering around the freezing mark.

Also, there is not a lot of difference between our trucks and the limited model, which is full-time 4x4 with a torsen center differential. For tight turns, by all means switch to 2wd. But if you're on the road and the conditions are the "in between" that you're describing, go for it.

I don't know about you, but that's why I bought a toyota 4x4.
 
Rightside Up said:
Mine don't. Once they get around 12-15,000 miles on them they become hard.
When mine on my Jeep get worn down some more, I'm done with them.
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Im done with my KO2 as well- in fact today I am replacing them. I have 23k on them and they have never been good on wet roads. I run 33-35 psi and have this experience so I dont think it is because I have them over inflated.
 
Mvm said:
I've had plenty of AWD vehicles, but this is my first 4WD vehicle (2017 Off Road).





A question I have is it it OK to use 4Hi in the "in between times"?
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I live in an area that gets very little winter weather but when we do the roads are rarely treated well and tend to be icy. I use my 4Hi in conditions anytime I've begun to experience any sliding and am in and out of it on those days when I come to a shaded section of road or icy on ramps.
I'd rather worry about wear on components than a major collision.
Additionally, I believe Toyota suggest driving in 4h for 10mi on straight roads once a months to keep components lubed. I can't imagine driving a day in mixed conditions is doing any damage.



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Well, the good news is that all of you with the slippery KO2s can run in 4HI all the time since your tire traction is so bad and you won't bind your drivetrain.

I run 265 KO2s in C load at 38psi and haven't had any wet traction issues. I think mine have around 30-35k miles on them now. I also throw mine into 4HI when it's raining hard and I'm on a relatively straight road to help keep everything lubed up and in good working order. I've also run in 4HI when it's patchy snow/ice and haven't really worried about it.
 
I had the same concerns when I first got my trail last October. For my first drive in it out to the mountains the conditions couldn't have been worse, it was a nail biter and I thought I couldn't put it in 4H at all. The highway was, for the most part, dry but with loads of black ice and it was pitch black dark.

The issue really came up when going uphill i.e. when the vehicle is accelerating and then hitting an ice patch. Three times the back end slide out before I thought, screw this - 4H engaged! Passed four other cars in the ditch that morning.

As we head the mountains practically every weekend, I had to figure this out. First step was ditching the all terrains for Nokians but the biggest help for my piece of mind was a very technical write up somewhere on this forum (sorry, couldn't dig it up again) which explained why dry pavement driving, even on a highway at higher speeds (think - pretty much a straight line) is fine. A great write-up with all sorts of pictures and charts.

In short, use it when you need it and don't worry about it.

Besides, getting the dedicated snows gave me an excuse to order up some summer wheels - Ray10's on their way !! :reddance:
 
I've been runnin KO2s for about 7k miles. Overall I really like them, but on the wet and Snow in 2wd they are just ok in my opinion. But know their limits and use accordingly. I run dedicated snows on my Tesla P90D and its a beast on anything less than 6inches. 5k pounds and even wt distribution. Wife has Studded Blizzaks on her Q7 and that 2 is a beast on ice and snow. I traded my RRS 5.0 Dynamic for the 4runner when I started doing more hardcore offroad stuff. Ran Nokians for the winter on the range and have to agree 100% its all about the tires. I'll take 2WD and NOkians over AWD and all seasons. That said, in daily driving I do find it a PITA to switch in and out of 4WD. I find the A$$ end slips all over in 2WD when starting & stopping etc. Still, I'm sticking with the KO2s.
 
engineeer said:
2) My TRD Pro, in 2WD, with BFG KO2s, is extremely capable up on the windy roads up to Tahoe. I feel confident driving at higher speeds on wet roads and roads with fresh snow or slush while in 2WD because of my tires. I usually find myself passing all sorts of SUVs and sedans with FT 4WD/AWD because they're typically riding on all-season tires.
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Or they're just driving slower.
 
I am over 60 years old and live in Montana on the east side of the Divide and own a cabin I travel to almost every weekend located on the west side of the Divide. I drive over a 5500 foot high pass to make the trip. I have seen it snow in Montana every month of the year except July but typically we have snow from October or November to May or June with the bulk of our snow in the November to March time period. Right now there is 4-5 feet of snow at my cabin. I drive on snow and ice often. My wife and I have always owned a 4WD and have never owned an AWD. We recently (3 weeks ago) bought our first 4Runner—an SR5 Premium 4WD. Prior to our 4Runner we had several Chevrolet Suburbans for the last 15-20 years and I have always had a ¾ ton 4WD pickup. I hunt often in the months of October and November and have had more than my fair shore of experiences driving in snow and, much worse than snow, eastern Montana gumbo mud.

Here is my experience with 4WD. I NEVER use 4WD in wet conditions. For snow on pavement I pretty much always use 4WD. While I also always use 4WD when I know the roads are icy I am far more careful on ice than snow. If you have ever been in a serious 4WD slide on ice you know you might as well let go of the steering wheel because you will have no control until you stop. A common road condition particularly here in eastern Montana where we have lots of high winds is intermittent ice and snow with long patches of bare pavement. You can drive at highway speeds for several miles on dry pavement and then unexpectedly encounter an area where snow has blown across the road, melted, and then frozen into a sheet of ice that can be a short stretch or a mile long. When the roads have this type of intermittent ice I leave my vehicle in 4WD because you sometimes encounter the ice as you round a corner or top a hill and don’t have time to engage 4WD. I am sure there are those who think driving on bare pavement in 4WD even for short distance will ruin or break something. However I have left mine in 4WD over extended dry pavement when I encounter the dry pavement/long stretches of icy road conditions described above and have never encountered any damage or problems with my vehicles. However, I would not drive a 4WD on dry pavement at slower speeds where there are lots of turns—the kind where you experience the front wheel hop we all know about. If you are driving slow enough you may not need 4WD at all.

Eastern Montana gumbo? Whole different story—tires fill with mud so thick the treads fill and you can find yourself unable to get traction in 2” of mud. I have been in Gumbo so bad you had to wait for nighttime and the cold for the mud to set up enough or freeze so you can drive on it. I would gladly take the worst ice and snow conditions over gumbo. My worst/scariest driving experiences in my entire lifetime have been in Gumbo. In my part of the country you get off the dirt roads and get to pavement as soon as possible if it starts to rain!
 
jamesq said:
I don't feel my ko2 do well on wet roads.


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My KO2s will slip a little bit when rain initially comes down and the roads are dirty/oily, but that's only if I'm driving more aggressively than I normally do e.g. trying to make them break loose

MossJenks said:
Or they're just driving slower.
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And they're usually driving slower because any faster and they'd slide off the road, but yes I agree with you :)

Every weekend I drive up and pass people I get at least one or two that take offense to being passed (legally) and will try to keep up. It typically only takes a single turn for them to realize that's a bad idea on all-season or summer tires despite them having a 4WD/AWD vehicle.
 
I live up a hill with a few curves and turns on the way. One rainy day last week I decided to put it in 4H on the way up to see what happens.

Nothing! No sliding, no hard steering, even on a 90 degree turn. I leave it in 4H for mixed conditions, but not for rain only.
 
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