4wd with no locking center diff?

[Sungod]

Did you actually see this very vehicle? Because if not then I think the simpler explanation is that the photo is from a 2wd 4runner and was somehow mixed in with an ad for a 4wd.

Otherwise you would have to believe that of all the hundreds of thousands of 4th gen 4runners that were sold between 2003 and 2009, for some reason in 2008 Toyota decided to sell ONE 4runner without a center differential. How the hell would that even happen?

The only other possibilities I can think of are that the vehicle was in an accident and had the dash rebuilt and somehow during the rebuild process they put a blank instead of the center diff lock button (which would mean that there is a center diff lock but the plastic plug and wire are somewhere behind the dash) or, less likely, that the CDL button was switched to a different location (which is possible, I suppose, since after all it's just wires - extend the wires and put the button wherever you want) but why would you do that when you have perfectly serviceable (and unused) buttons on the dash?

Again, unless someone here can verify that there was ever a 4th gen 4wd 4runner without a center diff I think the simpler explanation makes more sense.

EDITED TO ADD: This is one of the biggest 4runner boards on the internet. If Toyota made 4th gens without center diffs, wouldn't you have expected to see at least one person posting here and saying "why doesn't my 4th gen have a center diff?"

Also, I have seen 4th gens without roof racks. They're not common, but I've seen them around.

Have you ever seen Toyotas from the Southeast? I don't have to see this one to know the way they configure vehicles down here. How many Toyotas have you seen with Enkei wheels? They sell them here and they are OE and not aftermarket. That means that if you go to California and have an issue, Toyota has to take care of it.

As I explained before Southeast Toyota does things different. They bring in stripped down vehicles and add port install options because the margins are much better. It is cheaper for them to order them with steel wheels and swap on a set of Enkeis than to order the standard configuration. Because they are independent, they can order vehicles that you would never see through the Toyota owned distribution network.

I don't know if you are familiar with Toyota history, but their original distribution model they would send stripped down vehicles and let the distributor equip them. In the 70s, you could actually get a Toyota with no stereo. Slowly they bought back the distribution networks (technically they don't own the gulf states, but they conform to Toyota standards), but the JM Family has refused to sell or change from the original model.

 

[Martinjmpr]

Have you ever seen Toyotas from the Southeast? I don't have to see this one to know the way they configure vehicles down here. How many Toyotas have you seen with Enkei wheels? They sell them here and they are OE and not aftermarket. That means that if you go to California and have an issue, Toyota has to take care of it.

A center diff isn't a bolt on like a wheel or a roof rack. That center diff is installed at the factory in Japan.

Again, you would have to believe that of the hundreds of thousands of 4runner made for the US market, they made ONE without a center diff for the US market (otherwise there would be people on this board confirming that they own a 4wd 4runner without a center diff.)

Either that or it's non-US spec. Problem there is that the speedo is in miles, not KM and the US is the only market where they do that.

 

[Sungod]

A center diff isn't a bolt on like a wheel or a roof rack. That center diff is installed at the factory in Japan.

Again, you would have to believe that of the hundreds of thousands of 4runner made for the US market, they made ONE without a center diff for the US market (otherwise there would be people on this board confirming that they own a 4wd 4runner without a center diff.)

No it isn't, but if is a configuration option then they don't have to order it. They order exactly what they want. 4wds are not very common, and most likely was a custom order. That means it wasn't made, it was ordered. SE Toyota will actually allow you to order a vehicle which is something Toyota doesn't necessarily do. When I was looking there was actually a 4 runner that was ordered without carpet and had a rubber mat. I had no idea that was even an option, but somewhere in Alabama it exists.

 

[Martinjmpr]

No it isn't, but if is a configuration option then they don't have to order it. They order exactly what they want. 4wds are not very common, and most likely was a custom order. That means it wasn't made, it was ordered. SE Toyota will actually allow you to order a vehicle which is something Toyota doesn't necessarily do. When I was looking there was actually a 4 runner that was ordered without carpet and had a rubber mat. I had no idea that was even an option, but somewhere in Alabama it exists.

OK. Find me a US-spec 4th gen that came from the factory with a manual transmission and then I might believe that they made one, single 4wd 4runner without a center diff.

Until then the simpler explanations simply make more sense: 2wd dash photo or CDL button replaced with a blank for unknown reasons.

 

[techno]

According to the carfax report, this one was sold to a rental company based out of Illinois. Certainly an interesting choice for a custom order.

But anyway, unless someone can actually look at this thing, then all we can do is speculate.

 

[Martinjmpr]

According to the carfax report, this one was sold to a rental company based out of Illinois. Certainly an interesting choice for a custom order.

But anyway, unless someone can actually look at this thing, then all we can do is speculate.

Well, as I said above, if Toyota did make 4th gen 4x4's w/o center diffs I'm sure we would have seen at least ONE here on T4R.org some time in the past 13 years.

 

[techno]

^agreed

 

[xpeppyx]

Well, as I said above, if Toyota did make 4th gen 4x4's w/o center diffs I'm sure we would have seen at least ONE here on T4R.org some time in the past 13 years.

I doubt it. This site like all car and truck forums is such a small segment of owners that I find it highly unlikely that you would see it on here. The majority of the hundreds of thousands of 4th gen owners would never even think about joining or looking at a car forum. This is just a small of enthusiasts on here. I don't care how big a forum appears online, it's still pretty insignificant when you look at the numbers sold.

 

[the great him]

I do like those a lot, but not in the Lexus guise. If they were Prado spec'd then it would be a contender for sure. It's off my list because of leather seats, worse fuel econ than I currently have and they're priced higher than I can afford for the year models I'm looking at. Plus, they're too tall for my garage.

the only thing different from the 4runner on a GX is the body/coach. and the springs/shocks -4runner/FJC stuff will swap in ($50 mod from metaltech for the rear coil conversion -GX has air suspension in the back).

as far as pricing goes they are actually about the same, i just picked up a GX in dec for $18k(including the repairs i had to do within the first month -$2500 for new windshield and ECU). fuel econemy is just as good as the 4.0, i average about 17.5mpg with mine and can pull 21mpg on the fwy.

if you dont like the leather then i guess that is a deal breaker, but if you ask me the 4.7 is a much better motor than the 4.0 and would more than make up for the leather. the GX has more head room and much nicer amenities, and can easily be spec'd out to be a prado with a few badges (fyi when you plug in a GX into a toyota scan tool it comes up as a Land Cruiser Prado 120). the only thing i would search hard for with the GX is one without the navigation, that makes finding one a little bit harder. but it only took me two weeks to find one that matched all i was looking for -color, interior color, 3rd row(not all came with 3rd row, but 90+% did), and no nav(this was the hardest part, and left me with only 4 options, but it was the biggest selling point for me)

not trying to tell you to get a GX, just clearing up some info that you might have been mislead with.

 

[techno]

Thanks, appreciate that. Maybe I'll look more into the cost of ownership and see where that leads me. My initial searching was showing 07 - 09 models under 100k miles way over my budget, but I'll look again.

 

[Martinjmpr]

Thanks, appreciate that. Maybe I'll look more into the cost of ownership and see where that leads me. My initial searching was showing 07 - 09 models under 100k miles way over my budget, but I'll look again.

Don't be afraid to go over 100k. If anything I would be worried about something that had mileage too low - like under 60,000 for an 8 year old vehicle. That tells me that either it has sat idle for long periods of time or has been used on a lot of very short trips - neither of which is good for a vehicle IMO.

Unfortunately it seems like prices for used 4runners have only gone up. Supply and demand, I guess. Maybe the new ones are so expensive that there's a very large market for used 4runners and because there is a finite supply, the demand is driving prices up. I'll bet if I restored my 4runner to stock condition (put the stock bumper back on, stock wheels, running boards) and had it nicely detailed I could sell it for just a couple thousand less than what I paid for it 3 years ago which was $19k. At the time I thought that was a little outrageous for a then-5-year-old vehicle (2007 I bought in 2012) but now I'm feeling good about it, seeing similar 2007's being advertised for over $15k here in Denver.

 

[the great him]

Thanks, appreciate that. Maybe I'll look more into the cost of ownership and see where that leads me. My initial searching was showing 07 - 09 models under 100k miles way over my budget, but I'll look again.

for that yes it probably will be on the high end, but i picked up an 04 with 130k mi. i considered 05s with the vvti and extra hp but the air injection/recalculation pumps seamed to have common issues and the 03, and 04s didnt have the vvti or air injection -there is a easy block-off for them with a fake simulator that tells the ECU everything is fine though. but the air pumps were down low and could potentially pick up water in a deep puddle or water crossing and so it was something that i would block off one way or the other and opted to not need. and most people cant tell the difference in power between 04 and 05+ so again why spend the extra coin. for me i didnt need to have 07 or 08 ect and could care less about the miles as long as i wasnt looking at 200k. i had 300k on my 97 4runner when i made the switch and i had put 100k of that on it, so i figured if i could double the mileage of the "new" rig and still be ahead it was ok by me. i have seen many of the 4.7s surpass 300k so durability and reliability is there for me, so again the mileage wasnt an issue for me. and there are no real changes to anything on the GX470 for its entire run. KDSS, and VVTI are the really only major changes, the only other changes are basically just exterior color and interior color options Lexus GX470

i was never looking at the GX really, i was looking at 100 series LCs but just couldnt bring myself to take that big of a hit in gas(they suck the gas at like 14-15mpg at best), and the front suspension was limited for its available lift amount (2-2.5" max -torsion bar), as apposed to the 120 chassis with its coil overs. once i found out the GX was on the same platform as the 4th gen 4runner, my choice was obvious -i had the seating capacity i wanted, plus the powertrain i wanted -the reasons for looking at the 100 series.

sorry not trying to sell you on the GX -even though i know it sounds like it, i just really like mine a lot, and am very pleased and happy with it. despite having the ECU short out less than 10 after buying it and costing me $2500. im just very very happy with it, both on and off road.

 

[Sungod]

OK. Find me a US-spec 4th gen that came from the factory with a manual transmission and then I might believe that they made one, single 4wd 4runner without a center diff.

Until then the simpler explanations simply make more sense: 2wd dash photo or CDL button replaced with a blank for unknown reasons.

I am sorry you don't understand the southeast distribution model. If a manual transmission was an option, I am sure they would order one. They order the specs that they want. They don't order roof racks which are standard from all other distribution networks and all are port installed. Again this is to increase margin.

There are very few 4wds in Fla. When I was looking there were 3 in the entire state. That was how I found out about their ordering ability. You can order exactly what you want and don't want. My guess is that this was a custom order by looking at the wheels, lack of roof rack, etc. and they simply didn't select the CDL. When I checked with the mid atlantic dealers I was told that they can put in requests, but unless it was something they were slated for, it was pretty much wasn't going to happen. They were the ones that referred me to the southeast dealers because they had better ability to do custom orders.

This is from my first hand experience. When you spend some time in the south, feel free to question me.

 

[techno]

...
There are very few 4wds in Fla. ...

I wish they called them 2Runners instead. So annoying when internet shopping and thinking you've found a great deal, only to find it's 2wd. :redbrick:
Still, thankfully, the majority sold nationwide are 4wd.

 

[Martinjmpr]

My guess is that this was a custom order by looking at the wheels, lack of roof rack, etc. and they simply didn't select the CDL.

Except the center diff was never an "option" on the US Spec 4th gen. If you got 4wd you got the CD. The only way to not get a center diff was to order a 2wd.

And BTW I lived in North Carolina from 1992 - 1998 and while I realize that while some people might act like "the South" is a different country, it's not. :

 

[DisguisedRope]

No comment on how it happened to be this way, but if you look at pics 13, 14, and 16 it looks like there is no white writing (so probably blanks) on the left two buttons. So this seems to negate the possibility of one picture of a 2WD getting mixed in with the bunch.

 

[Sungod]

Except the center diff was never an "option" on the US Spec 4th gen. If you got 4wd you got the CD. The only way to not get a center diff was to order a 2wd.

And BTW I lived in North Carolina from 1992 - 1998 and while I realize that while some people might act like "the South" is a different country, it's not. :

Really? You can get into DealerDaily and tell me that isn't an option? The roof rack wasn't an option either, but this one sure doesn't have one. Carpet wasn't an option, but I sure there is at least one out there. I haven't actually seen, but I did see the order config.

My reference to the south was not a geographic reference, but that of being exposed to the southeast Toyota region.

 

[Sungod]

I wish they called them 2Runners instead. So annoying when internet shopping and thinking you've found a great deal, only to find it's 2wd. :redbrick:
Still, thankfully, the majority sold nationwide are 4wd.

I know what you mean. The first one I saw was in Fla and I thought someone had lowered it until I realized it was 2wd.

 

[Martinjmpr]

Really? You can get into DealerDaily and tell me that isn't an option? The roof rack wasn't an option either, but this one sure doesn't have one. Carpet wasn't an option, but I sure there is at least one out there. I haven't actually seen, but I did see the order config.

My reference to the south was not a geographic reference, but that of being exposed to the southeast Toyota region.

I believe what I actually see and experience. We are all making conjecture based on what showed up on an online ad where none of us actually looked at this particular vehicle.

I simply refuse to believe that Toyota made ONE 4th gen 4x4 without a center diff for the US market. It just makes no sense. The roof rack, as you pointed out, is installed after the vehicle arrives in the US so it's absolutely conceivable that a 4runner could be sold without a roof rack. For that matter, I've seen 4th gens with no roof rack so I know they exist.

But I've never seen a 4th gen 4x4 that didn't have the center diff. Never saw one and never even heard of one, since the center diff was standard in all US spec 4x4 4th gens. If the center diff was an option, you would expect there to be some mention in the owner's manual that not all 4x4s have the center diff, but there isn't (at least in mine, although mine is an '07.)

I understand Toyota may do things differently in different parts of the country but unless someone can show me that Toyota ever offered a "center differential delete" option on the 4th gen 4x4, I'm not going to believe it.

Saying you can order a 4th gen without the center diff would be like saying you could order one with a manual transmission or a diesel engine - both of which are available in other parts of the world but both of which were never offered in US Spec models.

Again, everything we've said has been conjecture based on a couple of photos. The simplest explanation would be either a swapped photo or a CDL button that's been replaced with a blank for reasons unknown.

 

[Martinjmpr]

16" 6 spoke wheels too. I rarely see those.

My '07 SR5 came with those same wheels. :