5 mpg drop after Flowmaster install

TheThunderRunner

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So about a month ago I decided to install a Flowmaster 44 on my 03. Before the install I got about 16-17 mpg city driving (with winter fuel). After the install and after allowing time for the ECU to reset. I was averaging about 11.5 mpg city. I thought maybe the ECU had learned incorrectly because for the first week I revved it a lot to hear that new muffler. So I reset the ECU again and drove much more conservatively for about 2 weeks but I am still getting around 11-12 mpg around the city. I have read some articles that say the lack of backpressure can hurt your mileage but I thought the ECU reset would compensate for that. Can anyone give me some advice? Please and thank you!
 
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So about a month ago I decided to install a Flowmaster 44 on my 03. Before the install I got about 16-17 mpg city driving (with winter fuel). After the install and after allowing time for the ECU to reset. I was averaging about 11.5 mpg city. I thought maybe the ECU had learned incorrectly because for the first week I revved it a lot to hear that new muffler. So I reset the ECU again and drove much more conservatively for about 2 weeks but I am still getting around 11-12 mpg around the city. I have read some articles that say the lack of backpressure can hurt your mileage but I thought the ECU reset would compensate for that. Can anyone give me some advice? Please and thank you!

From what I understand the computer is not a reliable way to determine gas mileage. What you should do it put in fuel and count how many miles it takes to burn that amount of fuel. Computer could be wrong.
 
What ^ that guy said. Every time I read about fuel mileage people say that the cpu is incorrect at the fuel mileage calculation. Mine has been consistently off by about 10 to 20 % when I have checked. Usually I just put gas in and go and not worry too much about mileage because I live in Colorado, have a larger than standard size tire and my driving habits change according to weather. Lately with slick roads I do a lot more sliding and kick a lot more donuts. It isn't like these SUV's are known for getting good gas mileage.
 
... and my driving habits change according to weather. Lately with slick roads I do a lot more sliding and kick a lot more donuts....
I was expecting you to say with slick roads you drive more cautiously, so I chuckled at this, the exact opposite. :D
 
From what I understand the computer is not a reliable way to determine gas mileage. What you should do it put in fuel and count how many miles it takes to burn that amount of fuel. Computer could be wrong.
Regardless of the computer inaccuracies, he has been using the computer before the muffler change and should be using it after the muffler change. He is looking for the relative change and doesn't care about the accuracy of the calculation.

The ECU doesn't care or know how to determine back pressure.

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I would say check if your front calipers are frozen! I know from experience when I have a milage drop like that it was a frozen lower piston on the caliper.

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Regardless of the computer inaccuracies, he has been using the computer before the muffler change and should be using it after the muffler change. He is looking for the relative change and doesn't care about the accuracy of the calculation.

The ECU doesn't care or know how to determine back pressure.

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+1

Doesn't matter if it's off. Just matters if it's the same amount of off as before.
 
+1

Doesn't matter if it's off. Just matters if it's the same amount of off as before.

I wouldn't count on the ECU reporting predictable mileage values. A critical part of the mileage calculation has been changed and I wouldn't necessarily expect the ECU to behave linearly. But I know nothing about how the ECU works.

Hand calculations would be 100% (more or less) accurate and repeatable.
 
Regardless of the computer inaccuracies, he has been using the computer before the muffler change and should be using it after the muffler change. He is looking for the relative change and doesn't care about the accuracy of the calculation.

The ECU doesn't care or know how to determine back pressure.

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The problem is that it's not that cut and dry, there isn't a chart/explanation how that formula works (trust me I've looked...) For example my "lie-o-meter" is currently stabilized at about 14.5mpg with my 35's in reality I am getting closer to about 11.5mpg in town on winter gas. Before on my 33's I think it was saying somewhere between 15~16mpg if it wasn't being weird and I was probably getting closer to 12~13mpg in town (this was also when I probably drove no more than 5~10mi total a week since work was less than a mile from the house and I never got out, conversely out where I live now work is about 8mi from the house). It's just not consistent and so differences may not be consistent either.

Really? That's interesting, please explain.

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Eh... the only thing I can think of is that they're implying that the knock sensors are reacting to the noise. But I find that highly unlikely as they are usually rather buried and isolated; also the tail pipe/muffler is far enough from the vehicle it shouldn't be an issue.
 
Its a thought

Really? That's interesting, please explain.

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Do you have any performace chips? Sometimes after a mod, you may need to take it and have the timing, ignition, fuel ratio, ect reset to "realize" your benefits. Maybe the computer is messing things up?
 
So the computer tells me I'm getting about 16 around town. But my hand calculations tell me I'm getting around 11-12. Sure wish it was the other way around.
 
I got my 4runner and removed the resonator and put on a flow master Delta 40 and went from 18 to 11-13 mpg. That's all I did, no chips or anything. I also calculated this mpg through the odometer and simple calculations so there aren't any computer discrepancies


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First, like everyone else has said the only way to calculate mpg accurately is to write down how many miles per tank and how many gallons to fill it up. Or use an app that does the same thing. I reset the mpg calculator every time I fill up but only use it as a guide as I have an Excel spreadsheet that I track my mileage with. The on board calculator tends to be conservative.

Second, just putting a high flow muffler on isn't going to be noticed by the ECU or the knock sensors. Resetting the ECU isn't going to change you mpg. It will lower your back pressure which means you will lose some low end torque. How much this affects you mpg is based on what size engine (V8 or V6) and how you drive. If your calculator is indicating lower mpg and you are driving conservative then it means your engine has to work harder with the loss of low end torque.

There are no performance chips for Toyotas. There are piggy backs you can wire in and tune your fuel maps to optimize you power but for bolt ons that is usually a waste of money. My thoughts are if you want to make your truck louder invest in a quality cat back. You may still lose some low end torque but they are at least dyno tuned to produce power to help compensate for that in the mid to high rpm range. Otherwise high flow mufflers are all show and no go. And I base this information on having a custom built header and exhaust on my MR2 with dyno graphs before and after. Also, just putting a high flow muffler on an 04 Corolla I could feel the low end loss. For my 06 V8 4Runner I left everything stock so far because I tow and losing low end power is not an option for me. That and it is my road trip vehicle and I don't want all that noise for hours on end.

In short, if everything else is the same and only the muffler was added then you have to decide if the loss of mpg is acceptable for the sound or not.

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I got my 4runner and removed the resonator and put on a flow master Delta 40 and went from 18 to 11-13 mpg. That's all I did, no chips or anything. I also calculated this mpg through the odometer and simple calculations so there aren't any computer discrepancies


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I also have a v6

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I am also having this same issue. I got a gibson system on lost almost 2 mpg. The piping is 2.5 and it resonates to much to be dealing with drone And i couldnt find any answer online why this is happening. Hopefully someone answer i dont want to spend more money in getting a resonator and my mpg doesnt get better. Cause i know it wont
 
I am also having this same issue. I got a gibson system on lost almost 2 mpg. The piping is 2.5 and it resonates to much to be dealing with drone And i couldnt find any answer online why this is happening. Hopefully someone answer i dont want to spend more money in getting a resonator and my mpg doesnt get better. Cause i know it wont

If it's droning, you'll want a resonator or a longer muffler. I have a Jetta vr6 that will make your head explode with the amount of done it gets. Nothing ever helped in terms of insulation, etc. It was a stainless cat back though so I didn't want to chop it up.

I've also heard that extending the tail pipe further from the under carriage MIGHT help a little.
 

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