$500 more for certified. Do it?

[coconutpete]

I'm looking at a vehicle right now. It was for sale at the dealer where the original owner traded it in - it sat there for a few months and didn't sell, so it ended up at the auction. The Toyota dealer I'm looking at picked it up from the auction. I noticed in the carfax that it was listed as certified but this place doesn't have it certified. I asked them about it and they said sometimes they "de-certify" cars to get the price down to move them off the lot. If I want them to re-certify it they can do it for $500.

I was just looking at what this entails. Obviously the car has already been through the 160 point inspection since it was certified at the same mileage it's at now. I have AAA so roadside assistance is not a selling point to me. My credit union is offering me a better rate than the certified Toyota financing, so it comes down to the 12 month comprehensive limited warranty and the 100K powertrain warranty. Has anyone had dealings with this? It sounds like a no-brainer simply by factoring in the possible header problem (it's a V8) and the possible transfer case actuator leak problem.

 

[Dexter Morgan]

I'm looking at a vehicle right now. It was for sale at the dealer where the original owner traded it in - it sat there for a few months and didn't sell, so it ended up at the auction. The Toyota dealer I'm looking at picked it up from the auction. I noticed in the carfax that it was listed as certified but this place doesn't have it certified. I asked them about it and they said sometimes they "de-certify" cars to get the price down to move them off the lot. If I want them to re-certify it they can do it for $500.

I was just looking at what this entails. Obviously the car has already been through the 160 point inspection since it was certified at the same mileage it's at now. I have AAA so roadside assistance is not a selling point to me. My credit union is offering me a better rate than the certified Toyota financing, so it comes down to the 12 month comprehensive limited warranty and the 100K powertrain warranty. Has anyone had dealings with this? It sounds like a no-brainer simply by factoring in the possible header problem (it's a V8) and the possible transfer case actuator leak problem.

Depends how dear $500 is to you. Personally, I would do it because it's not a lot of money but when I looked for my 4runner, certified-status was the absolute last thing on my mind. Honestly, I could have cared less. These are among the most reliable, well built vehicles on the road today.

 

[MikeInNH]

I'd NEVER pay for something like that. If they want the sale...have them certify for you for FREE.

Certification and these 160 point inspections are marketing ploys..NOTHING more. If you want to pay for it..go ahead.

 

[Dexter Morgan]

I'd NEVER pay for something like that. If they want the sale...have them certify for you for FREE.

Certification and these 160 point inspections are marketing ploys..NOTHING more. If you want to pay for it..go ahead.

Its not entirely a marketing ploy - you are paying money in exchange for a service (insurance policy). They give peace of mind to potential owners, those who are more risk averse and feel they don't want to take on the risk of paying for potential repair bills.

On a Toyota, I personally don't think its all that worth it because they're so well built and relatively inexpensive to fix, but you ever seen the repair bill for a failed SMG transmission on an M5?? :wow2:

If it makes the OP feel good, get the re-certification and have it lumped into the final price. If you're financing for 3 years, that $500 is about $7/month - not a big deal.

 

[Glock_19]

I would try to get them to throw in the certification. If they won't I would probably still pay for it. I bought mine certified and it made me feel better that they inspected it and were willing to stand behind it.

 

[ebg18t]

I guess the question i would ponder is; what does the certified warranty cover and for how long?

 

[TRDCal]

I asked them about it and they said sometimes they "de-certify" cars to get the price down to move them off the lot. If I want them to re-certify it they can do it for $500.

De-certify?? What?!?! If it passes an inspection it becomes certified. What would they do to de-certify it, install worn out brakes or something?

I have to agree with Mike that I would have them do it for free or at least reduce the price of the truck by $500. It seems like they'd "de-certify" it so they could sucker someone into paying to have it re-certified.

 

[coconutpete]

Bullet points of a certified Toyota that I potentially care about:
- 12-month/12,000-mile Limited Comprehensive Warranty1
- 7-year/100,000-mile Limited Powertrain Warranty2


Bullet points of a certified Toyota that I don't care about.
- 1-year of Roadside Assistance3 (I have AAA)
- 160-Point Quality Assurance Inspection (They obviously already did the inspection since it was certified)
- CARFAX® Vehicle History Report™4 (I already have the carfax for this vehicle)
- Certified customers are eligible for standard new car financing rates (My credit union beats the rate)

So what I'm getting at is: If I can't get them to include it - would you pay $500 for the 12 month / 12,000 mile limited comp warranty and the 7 year / 100K powertrain warranty?

 

[MikeInNH]

Its not entirely a marketing ploy - you are paying money in exchange for a service (insurance policy). They give peace of mind to potential owners, those who are more risk averse and feel they don't want to take on the risk of paying for potential repair bills.

And unless you ACTUALLY WATCH them perform the service how do you know it was done??? This isn't something new. Dealerships have been doing this for years. They play the numbers games. All they are doing is slapping a warranty on the vehicle..and charging you $500 for it. If it gives you peace...GREAT.

So what it comes down to is an insurance policy...Just like extended warranties...NEVER BOUGHT ONE - NEVER WILL WASTE MY MONEY ON ONE.

 

[Dexter Morgan]

And unless you ACTUALLY WATCH them perform the service how do you know it was done??? This isn't something new. Dealerships have been doing this for years. They play the numbers games. All they are doing is slapping a warranty on the vehicle..and charging you $500 for it. If it gives you peace...GREAT.

So what it comes down to is an insurance policy...Just like extended warranties...NEVER BOUGHT ONE - NEVER WILL WASTE MY MONEY ON ONE.

To your first point: You don't, but that's a whole different conversation - that gets into fraud and that's not really what's at issue here. We are assuming that the inspection is done and $500 is charged to re-certify a vehicle, in this case a 4runner. The decision to purchase the certification is dependent on a lot of factors such as "what do I get for my $500?". "Will I recoup the premium cost through repair bills?" The fact that its only $500 to certify means the underwriters know that Toyota isn't going to break down and isn't expensive to fix so people won't pay a lot. For comparison, it's roughly $2,000 to get a BMW CPO'd (any people pay this left and right!) - and they are actually reliable too, just pricey to fix...it's all relative.

And yes extended warranties are not warranties they are service contracts underwritten by an insurance company. The contract provider is betting that you will not recoup the cost of your policy in repairs. You are betting that you will. There's something not quite right in rooting for repairs on your own car just so you can say you got your money's worth!

Bottom line for me...it is dependent on the vehicle but premiums are relative to the type of car and common issues associated with them.

 

[Dexter Morgan]

Bullet points of a certified Toyota that I potentially care about:
- 12-month/12,000-mile Limited Comprehensive Warranty1
- 7-year/100,000-mile Limited Powertrain Warranty2


Bullet points of a certified Toyota that I don't care about.
- 1-year of Roadside Assistance3 (I have AAA)
- 160-Point Quality Assurance Inspection (They obviously already did the inspection since it was certified)
- CARFAX® Vehicle History Report™4 (I already have the carfax for this vehicle)
- Certified customers are eligible for standard new car financing rates (My credit union beats the rate)

So what I'm getting at is: If I can't get them to include it - would you pay $500 for the 12 month / 12,000 mile limited comp warranty and the 7 year / 100K powertrain warranty?

Assuming you are comparing your $500 against only the first two bullets above, I would not purchase the warranty. Set aside a portion of that money as your "repair kitty" and keep it under your own mattress instead of giving it to an service contract company who will make interest on it immediately. It's highly unlikely you will recoup that through repairs being covered.

Also remember the 7yr/100k powertrain is from the in-service date not the date you purchase:

Ex. 2007 4runner with 70k miles, in service date March 2007, as of today you would have 13 months and 30k miles remaining on that warranty.

 

[04_4runner]

I purchased my 4runner with a Toyota care gold extended warranty because I did not want unexpected repair bills. In the year and a half since I bought it both front calipers were replaced because they were sticking and one axle was replaced becasue the CV boot was leaking. I have 1 1/2 more years on the warranty. No, it has not paid for itself but the peace of mind was and still is worth it to me.

 

[coconutpete]

Also remember the 7yr/100k powertrain is from the in-service date not the date you purchase:

Ex. 2007 4runner with 70k miles, in service date March 2007, as of today you would have 13 months and 30k miles remaining on that warranty.

It's a 2008 w/ 60K, so a little over 2 years and 40K.

Let me see if I can help out: The only reason I'm even considering this is the potential for a $2,000 transfer case actuator leak and a $2,000 manifold replacement bill since this is after all a V8. If those 2 common failure items hadn't existed I wouldn't even be considering this.

 

[MikeInNH]

that gets into fraud and that's not really what's at issue here.

Fraud is only fraud if you can PROVE it.

Does that $500 certification give you a better warranty?? What other perks does it offer except piece of mind??

I usually don't buy used..I usually buy NEW and keep it for ever. But when and IF I do...I get it inspected by a trusted independent mechanic. That inspection is FAR cheaper then a Dealership certified used vehicle...and as good or better. Dealerships play the numbers games. A 2-year old vehicle comes in with less then 5k miles that was traded in by a little old...it automatically gets the Certified used car. If the vehicle doesn't meet their statistical criteria..then it'll NEVER be certified..no matter how good it is.

 

[Dexter Morgan]

It's a 2008 w/ 60K, so a little over 2 years and 40K.

Let me see if I can help out: The only reason I'm even considering this is the potential for a $2,000 transfer case actuator leak and a $2,000 manifold replacement bill since this is after all a V8. If those 2 common failure items hadn't existed I wouldn't even be considering this.

You've to go beyond that these issues exist. What actuaries do for large insurance companies (as well as any statistician) is figure out the probability that it will happen. At what % of probability of occurrence are you willing to forego the warranty?

Sure the actuator can and has failed on other 4runners, but if it's affected 1 in 50 vehicles, does it make sense to dump $500 for the 2% chance that it happens to you? The tougher part is figuring out the %, by coming on this board you'd think it was 75% but I guarantee it's way, way lower than that. Way lower.

If you insist on having it, just finance it with your payment it'll take the sting out of $500 cash and call it a day. Its probably ~3% of your purchase price, not a lot.

 

[Dexter Morgan]

Fraud is only fraud if you can PROVE it.

Does that $500 certification give you a better warranty?? What other perks does it offer except piece of mind??

It gives a limited bumper to bumper for a year and the balance of the power train, so yes of course it gives you a better warranty than a non-certified '08 with 60k. The other piece of mind, should you choose to believe it, is that the vehicle has been thoroughly inspected above and beyond what the dealer's sdtate mandated "safety check" encompasses. You've got to remember, the great percentage of the general public knows fuk all about cars so they rely on these extra checks and warranties.

The question is whether or not the OP will incur costs exceeding $500 during that 1 year, and thereafter costs related to the drivetrain only until it expires. I personally don't think he will but that's not scientific, that's just me.

 

[MikeInNH]

The other piece of mind, should you choose to believe it, is that the vehicle has been thoroughly inspected above and beyond what the dealer's sdtate mandated "safety check" encompasses. You've got to remember, the great percentage of the general public knows fuk all about cars so they rely on these extra checks and warranties.

And the dealers know that....So they INVENT the certified program to make you THINK they are doing this extra work for YOUR benefit. But in fact they are doing it for THEIR benefit.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/06/automobiles/06USED.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

[coconutpete]

And the dealers know that....So they INVENT the certified program to make you THINK they are doing this extra work for YOUR benefit. But in fact they are doing it for THEIR benefit.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/06/automobiles/06USED.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

While I agree to a certain extent, I don't think you can fairly compare the "GM Certified" program to ANY other carmaker except maybe one from the old eastern bloc. This is, after all, the company who brought us the "we don't know what you are talking about, that was a different company" Impala scandal and threw a party as the rest of the world mourned the hundreds of thousands of lives lost in Japan after the tsunami.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Dexter Morgan]

And the dealers know that....So they INVENT the certified program to make you THINK they are doing this extra work for YOUR benefit. But in fact they are doing it for THEIR benefit.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/06/automobiles/06USED.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

I'm not as cynical, but understand that there are dishonest dealers out there. Caveat Emptor.

 

[MikeInNH]

I'm not as cynical, but understand that there are dishonest dealers out there. Caveat Emptor.

Of course there are...and that's my point. Just because the vehicle is certified means NOTHING. I don't deal with dealers often enough to know which one is ALWAYS being honest. I have run into a couple of very dishonest dealerships that I no longer visit. I have a buddy in upstate NY who owns a large dealership that I fully trust...But I really don't know any of the local dealerships to know how trustworthy they are. A couple I know are total sleaze...outside of that..I really don't know. And since it's MY money spending...I'm NOT going to just take their word for it when they say this vehicle is Certified.