5th Gen 4R Compared to the 2022 Explorer/Aviator - 4R 6th Gen is Here

[RichinRidgewood]

He’s not trying to hurt your feelings. He’s just saying the next vehicle will need to be massively upgraded. That chip on your shoulder is getting awfully heavy. Might want to address it.

I agree. The 4Runner is way, way behind other vehicles on tech, safety, and options. Toyota either needs to drop the 4Runner or upgrade it to a decent standard that compares to just the basic competitor’s vehicles. It will be very interesting to see what they do.

Most people don’t care if the drivetrain will go 500,000 miles. They want an attractive exterior, comfortable interior, modern gadgets, good economy.

When you look at those wants, 4Runner is way behind.

I don’t question which SUV will last longest. With maintenance the 4Runner is the winner. I thought when I bought mine I’d just drive it till the wheels fall off, which is a very, very long time. But the archaic and poorly engineered interior alone has caused me to regret the purchase. That’s not even taking into consideration last in class everything else other than reliability.

If they don’t have a huge upgrade this time, they’re in trouble. I suspect based on how badass the Tundra is that Toyota gets it loud and clear. I’m hopeful.

It’s way behind in most areas and honestly it seems like common sense that I don’t have enough time to argue on behalf of.

The interior is garbage. Mine pops and rattles on flat pavement, but all over the interior on bumps. My sunroof came with multiple bolts stripped in the rail mounting it to the car. Had to have the entire thing replaced, and now it pops even more. It’s just a junk interior like nothing I’ve ever seen before. Frighteningly poor engineering.

But as I said in another thread, I have been in two other Toyotas recently and they are even worse. Toyotas are just noisy and people like me think they sound like junk. I have not been in a Tundra though, so it may be better.

Happy to see at least one person here got the point of the thread.

I'd attest more of that to Jeep marketing and creating the Wrangler to be a real practical vehicle for soccer moms or the others that always wanted one, but it didn't make sense. Since the JKU, Wrangler sales have gone through the roof because of that. It became the next "cool" thing that everyone wanted to drive. You don't see famous people driving 4runners, so nobody cares. That's not Toyota's thing. It's society more than the fact that the 4Runner is outdated. Up until recently with the JL, Jeep tech was non-existent too. Now if you want it on the JL you are paying additional as nothing is standard on a Wrangler. I give so much credit to Jeep for doing what they did. Toyota SUVs in the US will never be as cool to the US population. If Jeep can sell millions of body on frame wranglers with solid axles, traditional 4WD systems, death wobble, and extremely sparse interiors than it's tough to blame the 4Runners fewer sales on that. Also, the 4.0L is fine on power. It's the transmission that needs an update and really the only thing I'd wish to change on the 4R. Jeeps with the Pentastar and the 5 speed were DOGS too until they went to the 8 speed.

In the US, practicality, reliability, etc. goes out the window for stupid expensive features or what Lebron James drives. The 4Runner is a better made vehicle than all of those that Rich listed.

And Rich, a RWD platform is about the only thing similar to those vehicles and the 4runner. Go get your Intelligent 4WD without a low range, unibody construction, independent suspension, and turbocharged crossover like everyone else with no personality and can't think for themselves and enjoy your trip down the Parkway. It's not the point of buying a 4runner and you know that. We don't want the 4Runner to change and get all those features.

I thought about buying a base model Jeep as a toy.

The Subaru ascent has a GVWR of 6001. Is that close enough to your mandatory GVWR? It has everything that a 4runner lacks and lacks everything that makes a 4runner a solid choice for some people.
Some highlights from your list above include:
Nice seats [emoji736]
Nice colors [emoji736]

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Subaru lol

Me thinks Borothex=RichinRidgewood

my lol is lol’ing.

What is it last in class in? I actually do want to know, not trying to be a jerk. Your likeness to the interior is subjective. Personally, I love the interior in my 4R. It looks great (again, my opinion) and it has actual buttons. It's simple and that's what I like. The TRD seats are sharp looking and are comfy and it has tons of space inside. Could the stereo be better? Sure. Could the UI be better? Sure, but they upgraded that in recent years at the same time Jeep did. Those things are not really important to me and regardless that's what the aftermarket is for. I have yet to get the desire to spend the money in those areas which means it's not as bad as people on forums make it out to be.

When I had my JKU the first thing I wanted to do was upgrade the speakers as they were really that bad. A JLU Wrangler of comparable price ($43k was sticker on my ORP), so a Sport S, has so much worse "stock" components than my 4R with candles for headlights, horrible speakers, basic Uconnect, no tech at all, cloth seats etc. and is much smaller inside and not as comfortable to drive. Not to mention leaky roofs, death wobble, overall FCA quality, etc.

Rich is stirring the pot by comparing a 4R to a Lincoln or Explorer, but when you compare a 4R to it's actual competition for the price it doesn't miss the mark at all aside from the outdated 5 speed trans which, again, gives reliability by being tried and true for so long. I'm getting 17.5 MPG in my 4Runner and I got 18.5 in my JKU and a little more in my wife's grand cherokees. Not much off the mark there either, especially when you consider the 4R is much bigger inside, more practical, and 1000% more reliable. It's an easy trade off.

If sharing my experiences and having critical thinking is “stirring the pot” ...

is rich a troll sometimes (Like 90% of the time): yes
do his threads generate interesting discussion and different points: yes
do said threads generate lots of posts / views: yes
will you laugh at his threads: yes

trolls play a vital role in the forum ecosystem. good trolling will generate views and create some interesting threads. interesting content keeps people coming back. just like any ecosystem, a balance is required and the trolls must be kept in check

sure people will get rustled jimmies now and then, but you can't deny, you click on every richinridgewood thread :gun6:

Go tell it to the neighbors dog.

Sure thing. We all believe you.

Why does the Ecoboost even have a cooling system? Apparently according to the expert it doesn't need one right?

Also, what does the "Engine Overtemp" warning mean on the dash? I assumed it meant over temperature. But since we now know that it doesn't go over temperature I'm kinda at a loss for what that means. Can you help?

This one:

Edit: now the second picture is even more confusing. The new warning says over temperature in full words. But we know that can't happen. So I assume it's a very elaborate practical joke from Ford and should be ignored?

It's not overheating Einstein. It's a warning light. It will derate until the temp comes down. Thats what they did when I was there instead of blowing parts all over the highway like some other manufacturers seem to think it's ok. I would tell you what part of the engine they monitored for the algorithm but you know everything so you must know which part it is all ready.

… I'm not sure who you think you are enlightening with your 'insights'. Go buy your Explorer or Aviator already.

……. OP, serious question, have you looked into selling your 4runner to move to the Explorer or otherwise?

This guy is still shitposting? I haven't been active for a little over a year and last time I engaged with this guy, he was a new member to this forum if my memory serves me correctly. Yikes.

This is comparing apples to oranges. Specs aside at least the 4Runner doesn’t look like ass.

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^^^This… This entire statement was the very thought I had, going all the way back to the silly solid front axel fascination thread and ALL the ways ‘ole Rich was schooled, lol.

So in other words - you had absolutely no idea what you were doing when you bought your 4Runner.

Happens all the time - in 2012 I bought my first sports car…after a month I realized that it only had two seats and the Ford Fusion came as a 5 seater which was more practical.
I still haven’t sold that sports car but I complain a lot about it’s missing seats and features.

Rich is a troll. And not a very well informed one, so that's usually where we end up with him randomly choosing a lie and then finding out that it doesn't fit. Like his "must have at least 6500gvwr" requirement and then learning that his 4R is only 6300gvwr.

But, he's not totally wrong that the 4R is WAY behind on drivetrain. And sales are down because of it. I know we can see year over year sales stable or going up a little. But it's a segment where the Wrangler has increased about 5 times in sales while the 4R is about 20% above its 1990s era sales.

And the standard Toyota product frequency is 7 years. Every 4r generation since the first ran for 7 years. This one was a major facelift on the 4th gen not really a new generation. And it's run for 18 years and counting. Toyota has failed IMO. The new tundra is pretty universally seen as a let down from every review I've seen. For me it's the 2017 update that showed up in 2022? And it's really 2023 before they've seriously going to market with it.

Toyota is showing some real missteps here. Due to lack of any meaningful investment in new tech or updating it's vehicles. You can see this in other places too. The RAV4 prime? Brilliant, but they won't sell any because they won't build them. They're rebranding a BYD because they can't build an EV Corolla. They rebranded a BMW because they won't build a 2 door IS500. Toyota does a lot right in the manufacturing process side. They're falling behind in the product side across a lot of segments for lack of innovation.

So much fan boy butthurt



.

 

[BorotHex]

That’s the longest multi quote I’ve ever seen! lol

 

[Pedro367]

So much fan boy butthurt

.

You're on a forum for a specific vehicle and don't like it when someone defends and says they like said vehicle. Weird play.

 

[RichinRidgewood]

You're on a forum for a specific vehicle and don't like it when someone defends and says they like said vehicle. Weird play.

Here is the difference as I see it

Normal person reply

"Rich, Fords suck. I like my 4Runner

Fanboy reply

"YOU DONT THINK THE 4RUNNER IS THE GREATEST SUV EVER ? THATS THATS CRAZY TALK. IM GOING KICK YOUR DOG AND PUNCH YOUR MOTHER OH NO ! I SHIT MY PANTS AGAIN!"

word
wtf?





.

 

[mo_mo]

Rear window roll down without having to go into a touchscreen menu = winner

No I don’t want my TV to have a built in VCR thank you.

 

[02SE]

Me thinks Borothex=RichinRidgewood

I don't believe they're the same person, but they apparently do share the trait of being unable to move on.

Rich is complaining again about his 4Runner, but apparently he still has it.

Borothex stated months ago he was trading in his 4Runner the next day, but apparently HE still has his too.

I've owned vehicles I didn't like after buying them, so I sold them. I didn't obsess over them, I just moved on.

I just don't understand why that is so difficult for some people to do...

 

[DallasTRDPro]

I don't believe they're the same person, but they apparently do share the trait of being unable to move on.

Rich is complaining again about his 4Runner, but apparently he still has it.

Borothex stated months ago he was trading in his 4Runner the next day, but apparently HE still has his too.

I've owned vehicles I didn't like after buying them, so I sold them. I didn't obsess over them, I just moved on.

I just don't understand why that is so difficult for some people to do...

Especially in this market. If you don't like the 4R you can make more than you paid for it. You would have to be a moron to hold onto it right now since there are obviously so many awesome tech heavy vehicles out there. Plenty of buyers that love the 4R.

 

[Jetboy]

It's not overheating Einstein. It's a warning light. It will derate until the temp comes down. Thats what they did when I was there instead of blowing parts all over the highway like some other manufacturers seem to think it's ok. I would tell you what part of the engine they monitored for the algorithm but you know everything so you must know which part it is all ready.

Hmmm...

 

[Pedro367]

I don't believe they're the same person, but they apparently do share the trait of being unable to move on.

Rich is complaining again about his 4Runner, but apparently he still has it.

Borothex stated months ago he was trading in his 4Runner the next day, but apparently HE still has his too.

I've owned vehicles I didn't like after buying them, so I sold them. I didn't obsess over them, I just moved on.

I just don't understand why that is so difficult for some people to do...

Nuh uh you're wrong! It's the people that like the vehicle (fanboys) that are the dramatic ones!

 

[Bmnorm2]

best thread in a while.. Us fanboys are just a bunch of luddites

 

[MZ2215]

hahaha I like low tech too. with the advancement of technology it seems like manufacturers are trying to find a way to shove the technology down consumers throats saying 'look you need this and that'. you see it with smartphones, vehicles, all sort of things. because that's what the manufacturers of these goods say you need, people believe they need it or even want it

Reminds me of the Buick commercial i saw the other night that touts amazon alexa in the infotainment system being capable of turning on your christmas lights on your house. Amazing, complicated solutions to problems that we don't have.

 

[scanny]

best thread in a while.. Us fanboys are just a bunch of luddites

I think that whoever likes all those new Fords might start appreciate simplicity and reliability when Ford truck breaks in a place where you have to walk for 10 miles to get cell phone signal to call for help. Or some electronic gismo stops working and all of a sudden your truck becomes RWD only in the middle of a trail.

OP was saying about awful color selection, automatic steering and other features, but I guess that most of the people buying 4Runners know how to steer and take off-road capability and reliability over color and those features you probably only notice when your truck don't start because some sensor died. And 4Runner fuel consumption is probably not too bad considering that you save money on repairs comparing to Ford : )

Besides Ford Explorer is in different class, more accurate would be compare it with Highlander. 4Runner could be compared with Bronco but Bronco's reliability is a no go for me.

 

[mscot]

we're going to be in the market for two new vehicles in the next 8 - 18 months or so. One will likely be the maverick, the other a different mid-size SUV (as I've mentioned before, our needs have changed)

I had some time off so I went and checked out the Maverick, Explorer, and the Jeep GCL today. The Ford interior is only moderately better than the 4Runner imo. Has more bells and whistles but isn't really all that modern or nice. That dumb looking vertical iPad on the dash is really hard to understand from a design perspective. Nothing about the cockpit felt lux at all. There was certainly some neat stuff, like auto folding 3rd row and stuff like that but a lot of stuff I don't need and dont trust to last.

The JGC however was really nice on the inside. comfortable and modern. Not a Mercedes but pretty close to Audi/BMW level.
Reliability scares me as it does most everyone here - but that's true of every domestic vehicle IMO.

I dig the Maverick tho. With a bed extender it will easily haul the amount of lumber I pick up at Austin on a single trip. Will probably need to come up with some brackets for sheets of ply to strap them down.
It will be the perfect city slicker workshop and errand truck and to get my and the kid's bikes around.

 

[BorotHex]

..but Bronco's reliability is a no go for me.

You mean your perception of Ford’s reliability is a no-go for you.

 

[BorotHex]

I don't believe they're the same person, but they apparently do share the trait of being unable to move on.

Rich is complaining again about his 4Runner, but apparently he still has it.

Borothex stated months ago he was trading in his 4Runner the next day, but apparently HE still has his too.

I've owned vehicles I didn't like after buying them, so I sold them. I didn't obsess over them, I just moved on.

I just don't understand why that is so difficult for some people to do...

I stated last week that I was trading it in and it’s gone. Driving a Passport now. Overdramatizing everything in an internet comment isn’t going to get more cred, not that it matters. Just saying.

 

[scanny]

You mean your perception of Ford’s reliability is a no-go for you.

No, I mean my experience with Fords and reports I read about Bronco. In my opinion Ford vehicles are not terrible but there's no comparison with 4Runners in terms or reliability.

 

[BorotHex]

No, I mean my experience with Fords and reports I read about Bronco. In my opinion Ford vehicles are not terrible but there's no comparison with 4Runners in terms or reliability.

I had an F150 with the original engine and transmission that was brutalized for 27 years before it was sold to a contractor for a new life.

If you’re talking about Ford corporate and how it treats customers, I can understand that. Saying Ford doesn’t make reliable vehicles, I can confirm, is ignorant.

The problem I have with all manufacturers is they make cars with problems and don’t stand by them. And that includes my 2021 4Runner.

I have a very good friend who makes excuse after excuse for why I had problems that were unacceptable on my 4Runner because he’s a lifelong Toyota guy. I have no allegiance to brands. They either work correctly or don’t. All of the manufacturers give customers the middle finger now after the car is bought. And all cars have problems. All of them. It’s how it’s handled that matters.

 

[02SE]

I stated last week that I was trading it in and it’s gone. Driving a Passport now. Overdramatizing everything in an internet comment isn’t going to get more cred, not that it matters. Just saying.

Is this what's called revisionist history?

I'm not "Overdramatizing" anything. I just remember what you said, but here you are months later still complaining.

Here's what you stated this back on September 16th...

There’s going to be a 2021 with 9,000 miles on it in my town tomorrow. Trading on a 2022 off-road Frontier. Just got off the phone.

Whatever man. Keep your 4Runner or don't. I couldn't care less. But don't bore us by repeatedly stating you're trading it in the next day... for months on end.

 

[BorotHex]

Is this what's called revisionist history?

I'm not "Overdramatizing" anything. I just remember what you said, but here you are months later still complaining.

Here's what you stated this back on September 16th...



Whatever man. Keep your 4Runner or don't. I couldn't care less. But don't bore us by repeatedly stating you're trading it in the next day... for months on end.

Oh yeah. The Nissan when I got there they tried to gouge me out of $8500 over sticker. Pretty sure I updated that and you’re leaving that out, but don’t give a sh*t. Quote and requote all you want. It’s the internet and full of bull crap and idiots.

 

[02SE]

Oh yeah. The Nissan when I got there they tried to gouge me out of $8500 over sticker. Pretty sure I updated that and you’re leaving that out, but don’t give a sh*t. Quote and requote all you want. It’s the internet and full of bull crap and idiots.

LOL. Whatever buddy. Contrary to what you may think, I don't hang on your every word. I just recalled you stating you were trading it in multiple times. But here you are...

:der: