timelapse
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I had another thread going the other week regarding KDSS lean on my 2014 TEP. I got some great info as a result and ended up installing a new adjustable C/O lift to account for the lean. I went with the Ultimate Lift from Toytec along with an extra OME trim spacer in the rear. Everything leveled out well. I also added SPC UCA's to get my caster extra high for a better fit with my 285/70 and -10 offset 4.3BS wheels from VTX. Not to mention better handling...
Now the lean is fixed, but I'm dealing with a new headache. My local shop who just couldn't get my alignment dialed in. I should have known better, because this happened last time they installed my original 5100's w/ stock springs and I ended up having to spend double (on alignment) and go to a separate shop with a better alignment tech. The original shop had said I needed the adj UCA's for them to align properly. Went to a new tech at a different shop and within 15 minutes he had my caster to 2.4* (not bad for stock arms and lift) and no more negative camber. The funny thing is that shop A (who has installed my lifts deals with lifted 4runners all the time... seems like all the local guys/gals go here) while shop B is more a general import oriented facility, but damn do they know alignments on modified suspension (lifted or lowered).
Anyways, fast forward to this new lift install to level my lean and I let the original shop perform the alignment (they have a top of the line Hunter machine) because I assume it's going to be a piece of cake with the new UCA's set to position D for +2 caster. Not so much. It took the alignment tech almost as long tinkering with the alignment as it did for them to install the entire lift. One very long day and I had the pleasure of standing around to observe it all. The tech just couldn't get the caster above 3-ish without also having lots of negative camber. In the end, I left with an alignment that drives straight BUT it has major problems. The Hunter machine was showing 3.4* caster on both sides after lots of tinkering and some positive camber (0.2*), but then they took the sensors off the wheels BEFORE tightening everything down. I'm no alignment tech, but I have read enough over the last year on these forums to know that is a big NO and poor practice. The shop closes and the technician is stressed out. I drive home but notice that I cannot even make simple turns anymore without hitting my body mount. I stop and take some measurements. My passenger side is almost 1 full inch closer to the back of the wheel well and body mount than my drivers side. Something isn't right with caster big time. I then look at the cam bolts that are visible from behind the front tires and see that the passenger side CAM bolt is positioned up side down. It's inverted from the drivers side. They usually always face upwards. Very odd. I also see that the SPC UCA has been adjusted to a lower caster position (now in E, instead of standard D like the drivers side). Clearly the caster isn't right on this side of the truck, but it's odd the Hunter machine was showing both sides equal. I suspect that something moved while all cam bolts were being locked down AFTER they had removed the sensors. Further more, I feel like I observed the tech (well 3 of them trying to figure it out) rolling the wheel around some when they were struggling and I think that some of this added play basically confused/cheated the Hunter cameras and it could have been giving a false reading.
I know the simple answer/solution is going back to my other shop/alignment tech and paying him to fix the issues from the 1st shop. It's just really frustrating to pay more money to a 2nd shop after paying top dollar at the first. The original shop is offering for me to come back and give it another try to make it right, but I'm just not feeling confident in risking more time with them banging on my truck. They didn't give me a print out or allow me to snap a photo before they started pulling sensors off, but the Hunter was reading roughly 0.2 degree camber and 3.4* caster last I had seen it on both sides.
Here's a photo of the two cam bolts. Notice the passengers side is now upside down. Drivers Side / Passenger Side
For those of you running SPC, do you recommend hitting 4* + caster when running with a stock bumper and only fender liner mod on 285s? That was my original goal, so I'm thinking to request that the other good alignment tech set the UCAs to position C for 3 degrees of caster while stock cam bolts are still zeroed out.
Any tips or advice besides getting a new alignment shop?
Thanks for hearing my rant.
Now the lean is fixed, but I'm dealing with a new headache. My local shop who just couldn't get my alignment dialed in. I should have known better, because this happened last time they installed my original 5100's w/ stock springs and I ended up having to spend double (on alignment) and go to a separate shop with a better alignment tech. The original shop had said I needed the adj UCA's for them to align properly. Went to a new tech at a different shop and within 15 minutes he had my caster to 2.4* (not bad for stock arms and lift) and no more negative camber. The funny thing is that shop A (who has installed my lifts deals with lifted 4runners all the time... seems like all the local guys/gals go here) while shop B is more a general import oriented facility, but damn do they know alignments on modified suspension (lifted or lowered).
Anyways, fast forward to this new lift install to level my lean and I let the original shop perform the alignment (they have a top of the line Hunter machine) because I assume it's going to be a piece of cake with the new UCA's set to position D for +2 caster. Not so much. It took the alignment tech almost as long tinkering with the alignment as it did for them to install the entire lift. One very long day and I had the pleasure of standing around to observe it all. The tech just couldn't get the caster above 3-ish without also having lots of negative camber. In the end, I left with an alignment that drives straight BUT it has major problems. The Hunter machine was showing 3.4* caster on both sides after lots of tinkering and some positive camber (0.2*), but then they took the sensors off the wheels BEFORE tightening everything down. I'm no alignment tech, but I have read enough over the last year on these forums to know that is a big NO and poor practice. The shop closes and the technician is stressed out. I drive home but notice that I cannot even make simple turns anymore without hitting my body mount. I stop and take some measurements. My passenger side is almost 1 full inch closer to the back of the wheel well and body mount than my drivers side. Something isn't right with caster big time. I then look at the cam bolts that are visible from behind the front tires and see that the passenger side CAM bolt is positioned up side down. It's inverted from the drivers side. They usually always face upwards. Very odd. I also see that the SPC UCA has been adjusted to a lower caster position (now in E, instead of standard D like the drivers side). Clearly the caster isn't right on this side of the truck, but it's odd the Hunter machine was showing both sides equal. I suspect that something moved while all cam bolts were being locked down AFTER they had removed the sensors. Further more, I feel like I observed the tech (well 3 of them trying to figure it out) rolling the wheel around some when they were struggling and I think that some of this added play basically confused/cheated the Hunter cameras and it could have been giving a false reading.
I know the simple answer/solution is going back to my other shop/alignment tech and paying him to fix the issues from the 1st shop. It's just really frustrating to pay more money to a 2nd shop after paying top dollar at the first. The original shop is offering for me to come back and give it another try to make it right, but I'm just not feeling confident in risking more time with them banging on my truck. They didn't give me a print out or allow me to snap a photo before they started pulling sensors off, but the Hunter was reading roughly 0.2 degree camber and 3.4* caster last I had seen it on both sides.
Here's a photo of the two cam bolts. Notice the passengers side is now upside down. Drivers Side / Passenger Side
For those of you running SPC, do you recommend hitting 4* + caster when running with a stock bumper and only fender liner mod on 285s? That was my original goal, so I'm thinking to request that the other good alignment tech set the UCAs to position C for 3 degrees of caster while stock cam bolts are still zeroed out.
Any tips or advice besides getting a new alignment shop?
Thanks for hearing my rant.
