5th Gen Calipers

4Rnr4Evr said:
I want to bring the issue I just had with 5th gen calipers to everybody's attention because I am concerned it is not an isolated case and may affect others.

Possibly should be merged here

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/262937-urgent-help-5th-gen-calipers-needed.html

summary: correct rear caliper casting # for 5th gens is F14. I was sent one F14 and one F14B which made me look things up. F14B is 93-98 Land Cruiser according to several lists I found on google. ... The pistons on the two calipers were different even though both are listed as having 48mm bore!
Click to expand...

Interesting indeed... Since the Land Cruisers have long been considered the gold standard for durability, I wonder if the Land Cruiser calipers might not actually
be an even bigger upgrade. Since they're both 48mm bore, that's a good sign.

I wonder what metals that castings and pistons are made out of? It's been theorized that on the 4R, the two metals used are incompatible, and that may
be why so may of the calipers (at least for the 4th gen) are siezing.


chayos00 said:
Was wondering if anyone else who used the Akebono Performance Performance Ultra Premium Ceramic Pads have been having any cold brake squealing noise?
Click to expand...

The pads have metal hardware (I for get what it's called), but things like backing plates, retaining clips, piston slides (if that's what they're called) and some rubber boots. You need to put a special high temperature grease, or other treatment at the locations where the pads touch caliper pistons. This prevents squeaking. If you use the wrong grease, or don't use grease at these key touch points, then you may get squeaking... so that might be your cause.

Also, you're supposed to lube the part that slides... I think they may be called slide rails... but I'm not sure. I used a special (but different) type of grease to lube that part as well.

Sorry I don't have more specifics in terms of the names of the parts of the breaks, or exactly what products to use, but if you didn't do those two steps, then this would be a good starting point to help you resolve the issue.

I hope this helps.
-Phil

P.S. - An interesting note... on my last inspection, my rear brake pads were worn enough to fail inspection, but my front pads were fine. I towed a boat probably a total of 3000 miles since I changed the pads, and the trailer doesn't have its own brakes. I'm assuming that the weight from the trailer placed on the tongue, and the trailer weight itself caused the rear brakes to provide more of the stopping power than the front. That's something I never thought about, and wouldn't have predicted, but it's the best explanation I can come up with, since I replaced all pads, calipers, rotors and even put in steel brake lines at the same time. Anyway, got some new akebono pads for the rears and new rotors too, and I'm back in business. BTW, I had the inspector (and the mechanic who did the replacement) both check, and my calipers are NOT seized, because that was my first concern.

FYI. :-)
 
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pjbrownva said:
The pads have metal hardware (I for get what it's called), but things like backing plates, retaining clips, piston slides (if that's what they're called) and some rubber boots. You need to put a special high temperature grease, or other treatment at the locations where the pads touch caliper pistons. This prevents squeaking. If you use the wrong grease, or don't use grease at these key touch points, then you may get squeaking... so that might be your cause.

Also, you're supposed to lube the part that slides... I think they may be called slide rails... but I'm not sure. I used a special (but different) type of grease to lube that part as well.

Sorry I don't have more specifics in terms of the names of the parts of the breaks, or exactly what products to use, but if you didn't do those two steps, then this would be a good starting point to help you resolve the issue.

I hope this helps.
-Phil
Click to expand...

When I did the brake job I did use a tub of this brake grease lube, however I'll have to go see as to what the quality of it was later today. Things were quite with them since 11/2016 when I did the swap, until this summer. However when I do get my truck up on jack's again, it wouldn't be that hard to clean things up and use fresh grease on the the pads and all moving parts again. I know I was friendly with the grease as it was a tub of it I had. Thanks for the suggestions! May have to try that on my wife's Infiniti Q50 too as her factory pads are doing the same when cold.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 
chayos00 said:
When I did the brake job I did use a tub of this brake grease lube, however I'll have to go see as to what the quality of it was later today. Things were quite with them since 11/2016 when I did the swap, until this summer. However when I do get my truck up on jack's again, it wouldn't be that hard to clean things up and use fresh grease on the the pads and all moving parts again. I know I was friendly with the grease as it was a tub of it I had. Thanks for the suggestions! May have to try that on my wife's Infiniti Q50 too as her factory pads are doing the same when cold.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Make sure you only use a special "brake grease". It's ONLY for lubing brakes.

In about 2 or 3 minutes, this portion of a YouTube video shows you what grease to use, and where to put it.

The whole video is 11 1/2 minutes, and might be worth watching.


If you want to learn a TON of info about how and why brakes squeak, watch this video first. It's 13 1/2 minutes long, but it's packed with a TON of info about brakes, brake noise, what can cause it, how to tell the cause, and how to fix it.

Lastly, I used the "google machine" :biggrin1: ... and found this advice:

What is brake grease used for?
Brake lubricant can also be used to dampen vibrations between disc brake pads and caliper pistons. But it should not be applied between the pads and any noise suppression shims that may be used. Use it on the back of a bare pad or between the pad shim and caliper – and use it sparingly.May 2, 2013
Brake Lubricants for Disc, Drum Brakes - Tire Review
​

and this

What is the grease that comes with brake pads for?
Often, a small packet of graphite-based grease will come with the brake pads. Apply this to the clips of the new brake pads to keep them from squeaking, as shown in the photo above. This photo shows that the new brake pad has a riveted-on shim, which is the thin metal plate.​

... but you get no photo!! :fish:

I hope this helps.

-Phil
 
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pjbrownva said:
Make sure you only use a special "brake grease". It's ONLY for lubing brakes.

In about 2 or 3 minutes, this portion of a YouTube video shows you what grease to use, and where to put it.

The whole video is 11 1/2 minutes, and might be worth watching.


If you want to learn a TON of info about how and why brakes squeak, watch this video first. It's 13 1/2 minutes long, but it's packed with a TON of info about brakes, brake noise, what can cause it, how to tell the cause, and how to fix it.

Lastly, I used the "google machine" :biggrin1: ... and found this advice:

What is brake grease used for?
Brake lubricant can also be used to dampen vibrations between disc brake pads and caliper pistons. But it should not be applied between the pads and any noise suppression shims that may be used. Use it on the back of a bare pad or between the pad shim and caliper – and use it sparingly.May 2, 2013
Brake Lubricants for Disc, Drum Brakes - Tire Review
​

and this

What is the grease that comes with brake pads for?
Often, a small packet of graphite-based grease will come with the brake pads. Apply this to the clips of the new brake pads to keep them from squeaking, as shown in the photo above. This photo shows that the new brake pad has a riveted-on shim, which is the thin metal plate.​

... but you get no photo!! :fish:

I hope this helps.

-Phil
Click to expand...
THanks for those links, I'll check them out and see what is suggested and do them next time I've got things apart. I just checked and the following is what I actually used. https://www.amazon.com/Versachem-26080-Synthetic-Caliper-Grease/dp/B004IUIJCE However, I'm pretty sure I lubed EVERYTHING, including between the noise shims too, so may have to revisit that aspect of things too. Thanks for finding this info! I just wasn't sure about these pads as I've never been 100% happy with how they performed vs the OEM pads I had before the swap at 100k.
 
I'm going back to 4th Gen brake calipers.

This go around 5th Gen Eclipse (NAPA - Lifetime warranty) calipers aren't in stock.

I see RockAuto now as 4th Gen A1Cardone's with 'exclusive weatherproof coasting' and a 10 year, 100K mile warranty.

If anyone is interested, it's Model ..
19P2767 front left
19P2766 front right

- Sticking with OEM pads
- New (Sport Edition 338mm diameter) Centric 4th gen rotors.

Warranty card.
https://www.rockauto.com/genImages/1/CardoneWarrantyPolicy_USA_1.pdf

I see the front left doesn't have a core on RockAuto.
It makes me thing the passenger side is the culprit.
 
kimboy said:
I'm going back to 4th Gen brake calipers.

This go around 5th Gen Eclipse (NAPA - Lifetime warranty) calipers aren't in stock.

I see RockAuto now as 4th Gen A1Cardone's with 'exclusive weatherproof coasting' and a 10 year, 100K mile warranty.

If anyone is interested, it's Model ..
19P2767 front left
19P2766 front right

- Sticking with OEM pads
- New (Sport Edition 338mm diameter) Centric 4th gen rotors.

Warranty card.
https://www.rockauto.com/genImages/1/CardoneWarrantyPolicy_USA_1.pdf

I see the front left doesn't have a core on RockAuto.
It makes me thing the passenger side is the culprit.
Click to expand...

I almost had to do that as well. My passenger front seized, and it took 2 months for me to get the Powerstop 5th gen calipers that showed “in stock” on Amazon (sold through Jegs). I had the pads and rotors within a few days of ordering, and had to deal with countless phone calls to Amazon and Jegs trying to get the calipers. I’m glad I did end up doing the 5th gen though, because apparently my truck had already had the 5th gen stuff installed at some point before I bought it. I didn’t realize it until I saw the the casting numbers on the old ones, and compared the rotor size to the new ones. Good to know there are other options for coated calipers at least. I only stuck out the wait for the Powerstop ones because I already had done the rears and wanted the full set to match. I hope they last, because they do seem to be very high quality assemblies.
 
Well, I did the 5th gen caliper "mod" a year and half now (May of 2017), I have to report that my driver's front caliper is seized(slightly). At least all indications point to this. After a 20 min ride, that wheel is hot, the other is cold. There is a noticeable vibration when applying the brake after a 10 min ride. There is also a SLIGHT tendency for the wheel to veer to the left on the highway when I let go of the wheel. Yes, I'm pissed. BUT, back to the drawing board.
 
CookieRoe said:
Well, I did the 5th gen caliper "mod" a year and half now (May of 2017), I have to report that my driver's front caliper is seized(slightly). At least all indications point to this. After a 20 min ride, that wheel is hot, the other is cold. There is a noticeable vibration when applying the brake after a 10 min ride. There is also a SLIGHT tendency for the wheel to veer to the left on the highway when I let go of the wheel. Yes, I'm pissed. BUT, back to the drawing board.
Click to expand...

Definitely NOT good to hear! You’re right about that caliper being on its way out, that is how mine started behaving before it completely seized. When I finally got my calipers after the 2 month wait, not only could I not rotate the tire on that side by hand when the front was off the ground, but I had to use a heavy hammer to get it off the rotor once it was unbolted.
 
Terminator03 said:
Definitely NOT good to hear! You’re right about that caliper being on its way out, that is how mine started behaving before it completely seized. When I finally got my calipers after the 2 month wait, not only could I not rotate the tire on that side by hand when the front was off the ground, but I had to use a heavy hammer to get it off the rotor once it was unbolted.
Click to expand...

I'm still ticked off, but it is what it is. If I have time today or next week, I'll take the wheel off and see if maybe the pins are stuck or something. I'm already looking at a set of AC Delco COATED (I live in PA) calipers on Rockauto. I've give Amazon a look (that is where I got my Civic's A/C compressor new, couldn't find one elsewhere).

It seemingly started yesterday, but I remember that from time to time (going back a few months), when I pull out, I would hear a squeal for about 2-3 seconds...........so........... yeah, it was on it's way out months ago, it's only starting to get lots worse now. Its my wife's DD and so she only drives a few miles a day so I'm not going to rush it. If it's only the pins, then awesome, but I won't know until I take the wheel off.

This sucks.
 
:hiding: mine are still okay and its going on to its 6 year mark. My rear right caliper is leaking which I am planning on changing the seals next spring
 
Took the wheel off to get a look at what might be happening. I was hoping my only problem would be the slider pins. Turns out, they were dry and rusty so I cleaned them up and lubed them good.

59XXopbl.jpg


Crusty! Got them cleaned up and lubed.
jQhoGYWl.jpg


inner side of the pistons. Looked fine (to me)
0O1EFWbl.jpg


outer side. Again, looked ok to me.
bzStBwMl.jpg


Pads were difficult to take out, they were definitely dragging. Pads have plenty of life left in them. What I wanted to do was to crack open the bleeder, but I didn't have any brake fluid with me and didn't want to make a mess (I only had 20min to do this). Anyway, with the pads off, I couldn't get ANY of the 4 pistons to retract. I've seen stuck pistons before, but they looked fine. What I should've done was crack the bleeder (I didn't), maybe I have a collapsed line.......... put everything back together.

The calipers I got were Centric (non-painted), painted them with G4 paint (as you can see, I didn't completely cover the damn things). On Rockauto, I see a pair of A/C Delco's that come coated for salt regions. I'll go with them if it turns out my caliper is bad.

This sucks.
 
Worth it? You decide!

Well, cracked the bleeder open, but it was still stuck. It unsticks when it wants to. Urghhhhh. So, the caliper is toast. All 4 pistons would/will not budge.

Next? Ordered "coated" AC Delco Professional calipers with rotors/pads/etc from RockAuto. (price/core/total@checkout). These parts listed are coated for rust prone regions.

ACDELCO 18FR12552C Caliper $ 92.79 $ 60.00 1 $ 152.79
ACDELCO 18FR12551C Caliper $ 92.79 $ 60.00 1 $ 152.79
WAGNER BD180404E Rotor $ 50.79 $ 0.00 2 $ 101.58

If anyone recalls, the original part list on this thread had Centric calipers that were bare metal. Even after I painted the calipers, some rust came through. Still, after 1.5 years, they should NOT have failed. YMMV

Sorry guys, this mod does JACK S++T to prevent stuck calipers. To those who say, "Because the hardware is bigger, I stop better". Whatever man.

Most of us did this mod b/c we ALREADY needed to replace the calipers and doing this is fine (for those of us who have Limiteds/Sports), but don't expect the stuck caliper problem to go away. It won't.

Good speed to those who did this mod and have/haven't had recurring sticky calipers.
 
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CookieRoe said:
Well, cracked the bleeder open, but it was still stuck. It unsticks when it wants to. Urghhhhh. So, the caliper is toast. All 4 pistons would/will not budge.

Next? Ordered "coated" AC Delco Professional calipers with rotors/pads/etc from RockAuto. (price/core/total@checkout). These parts were listed has being coated for rust prone regions.

ACDELCO 18FR12552C Caliper $ 92.79 $ 60.00 1 $ 152.79
ACDELCO 18FR12551C Caliper $ 92.79 $ 60.00 1 $ 152.79
WAGNER BD180404E Rotor $ 50.79 $ 0.00 2 $ 101.58

If anyone recalls, the original part list on this thread had Centric calipers that were bare metal. Even after I painted the calipers, some rust came through. Still, after 1.5 years, they should NOT have failed. YMMV

Sorry guys, this mod does JACK S++T to prevent stuck calipers. To those who say, "Because the hardware is bigger, I stop better". Whatever man.

Most of us did this mod b/c we ALREADY needed to replace the calipers and doing this is fine (for those of us who have Limiteds/Sports), but don't expect the stuck caliper problem to go away. It won't.

Good speed to those who did this mod and have/haven't had recurring sticky calipers.
Click to expand...

Crap. Sorry CookieRoe.

Going to be me next
 
Having the same issue with my 5th gen calipers. 3 years old and rt caliper frozen. Went with the centric ones and they failed. This will now be my 4th set in 9 years.
 
I went through both Centric front calipers from RockAuto within 2.5yrs and <30k miles. The rears I got at NAPA and one failed shortly after the fronts. The NAPA rear was easily replaced for free under warranty. The fronts are now also NAPA. I've also become really good at changing calipers and bleeding the brakes, seems to be the only solution.
 
84ability said:
I went through both Centric front calipers from RockAuto within 2.5yrs and <30k miles. The rears I got at NAPA and one failed shortly after the fronts. The NAPA rear was easily replaced for free under warranty. The fronts are now also NAPA. I've also become really good at changing calipers and bleeding the brakes, seems to be the only solution.
Click to expand...

Complete agree on "seems to be the only solution". I, too, have come to terms with that these brakes (apparently shared with the GX460) are just a very bad design. No mod/change will correct that. However, someone DID suggest that every 6 months one should take the pads out, clean out the crud that accumulates between the pads and the pistons. Also, lubricating the slider pins isn't a bad idea. I'm not 100% sure this will correct the problem, but it seems to be a viable option. Of course, no layman (ordinary folks) would ever do this.

I'll post follow ups on my setup and better pics of seized calipers.
 
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