5VZ-FE bottom end issues?

[PitbullRescuer]

I've started looking at options for what the hell I'm going to do with this '00 SR5 I bought. When I got it, the intake and heads were already off. The mechanic that was working on it claims it needed rings (because of a miss.) I have my doubts on this. It's got 202K on it but it was well maintained, TB/WP were done twice, etc.

I started searching for a write up on rebuilding a 5VZ-FE but no luck. However, I've found quite a few forums were people thought about rebuilding them but were talked out of it because others are so adamant that the bottom end in these are bullet proof. I've suspected that the issue the PO was having was in the top end but I also never got to hear it run. He claims it was running great but had a CEL for a misfire. That lead to this mechanic tearing it down after throwing parts at it and concluding it needs rings. Claims it had low compression in cylinders 3 & 5 but I don't know how low.

The cylinder walls look super clean and smooth to me. I have my doubts that there are any issues with the bottom end. But that said:

1.) is there anyway at this point to determine what shape the rings and the bottom end are in without pulling the pistons out?
2.) anyone have any experience or know of anyone who had bottom end problems with a 5VZ?
3.) am I correct in thinking it is more likely in the top end? (bad valve maybe)

I'm thinking about just sending the heads out to be hot tanked and doing a top end rebuild and new gaskets. Thought?

 

[02SE]

How competent is the Mechanic? Some so-called Mechanics are nothing more than parts changers.

I've rebuilt lots of engines, but never a complete 5VZ-FE. All I've personally done on those is partial jobs like headgaskets, timing belts, valve adjustments, etc. They are well built, and in a mild state of tune. So they tend to be reliable.

I can say that I've yet to see a 5VZ-FE with problems with the rotating assembly. But I don't work on Toyota's for a living either. So my experience might not be representative.

I'm afraid all we can do on this board while sitting at a computer is speculate on what was wrong with your engine. The only way to know exactly what you have to work with, is to take it all apart and inspect everything.

Good luck.

 

[PitbullRescuer]

I have no idea how competent he was, I never spoke to him. I bought it off the guy that was having the issues. He took it to this mechanic, some Indy shop in VA, they threw a bunch of parts at it, couldn't clear the CEL so they tore it apart and then said it needs rings. I wish I could get a decent picture of the cylinder walls for you guys to look at.

The PO didn't have the money to have the motor rebuilt so I bought it off him as it sat. Honestly, this mechanic sounds like a hack but I'm only going off what the PO told me about him.

 

[PNWRunner]

JDM swap :bigok:

As you know I bought mine in almost exactly the same condition. The bottom ends in these are pretty solid, but your working with 200k unknown miles. Mine was "well maintained" too, right up until it overheated and seized. Theres no surefire way to tell what the issue is unless you pull it apart or put it back together. You could drop the pan and the oil baffle and give it a look from the bottom end.

Master rebuild kits are about $800
Master Rebuild Kit - 5VZ(95-99)Taco, 4Run & Tundra

 

[BrianSD_42]

Dude ....

I paid a lot of cash to have 2 new aftermarket heads put on an engine with 199k. But I have owned the truck since 2002 and believe 100% the bottom end is good for at least 300k miles.

In your case you just don't know. Also we are not talking about the top but a full rebuild of the bottom end. I have never done it although I did rebuild a lawnmower engine in HS autoshop in 1999 - LoL.

For the amount of cash you would need and considering the bottom end is possibly blown, why not just buy a wreck with < 100k miles? You can bid on one in Texas and probably get it for $1000, then drive it up for $500 in Gas.

:uzi:

 

[PitbullRescuer]

I agree with you guys, I just have such a hard time believing it has bad rings. And the reasoning for the bad rings diagnoses is that he did a compression test (after the heads were off.). How the hell do you do a compressionntest with the heads off?

I don't know. I guess I'll just drop a motor in it and then we'll take this one apart for a full rebuild later.

 

[jklmc]

ur half way there either way...u can put the top end back and cross ur fingers..or full rebuild...follow ur GUT.

 

[PitbullRescuer]

I think I might just throw head gaskets on it and bolt the heads back on and run a compression and leak down test. See where those numbers are and then go from there. I can do that relatively simply and cheaply. If there's any question at that point I'll just drop a motor in it. If those numbers look good, I'll know it's in the top end and then make my decision from there. Unless I find a great deal on a used 5vz somewhere.

 

[Diagram14]

I once fashioned a metal plate with and air fitting and a rubber base to pressure bleed a brake system. I wonder if you could do the same with a couple of holes for head bolts that would match up for all 6 cylinders individually and see what kind of loss you get.

Another possible idea (I dont know if this would produce any results) is to drop the oil pan and pour a fluid of your choice into each cylinder and see if it drains out the bottom. You could probably do this without dropping the pan if you could monitor the level in a particular cylinder. Again, Im only making things up here...maybe someone can shut this down before you waste your time.

 

[PitbullRescuer]

Diagram, I was thinking along the same lines of a plate to pressure test it but figured by the time I did that, I might as well just bolt the heads back on. Good thinking though, I like your style.

 

[02SE]

It's entirely your call. But since this isn't a job that appears to need to be done asap, I personally would pull the shortblock, and disassemble it to find out what you have to work with. And freshen it up as needed.

Generally, valve sealing issues are more common than ring sealing issues. But considering that a 'Mechanic' supposedly already diagnosed the problem as bad rings, I would have to confirm that for my own peace of mind, before just putting heads back on and hoping for the best.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[Diagram14]

Diagram, I was thinking along the same lines of a plate to pressure test it but figured by the time I did that, I might as well just bolt the heads back on. Good thinking though, I like your style.

Wouldnt you have to install your timing belt in order to get the valves to close to create the sealed cylinder? At the very least you'll put maybe $20 on a plate fabrication instead of throwing $80 at head gaskets that might be used only for the leak down test. Again Im just theorizing off of my limited knowledge base.

 

[athlon450]

I completely rebuilt mine from the ground up last year. The previous owner had and intake leak and burnt a hole thru the top of #2 piston. I completely tore it down and reassembled it. I had the head resurfaced and checked, I did my own valve job, cleaned and honed the block. It can be done fairly inexpensive(I don't mean with cheaply made parts) if you have the time and a few tools. I took approx. 2 weeks to break it down, clean it up and reassemble the whole thing in my spare time. At 10k+ miles and year later. It is running strong and no leaks or smoking. Setup cleaning and proper labeling of all parts taken off during the process is key. One other tip, PICS PICS AND MORE PICS if this is the first time doing this. PM if you have ?'s.

 

[athlon450]

Wouldnt you have to install your timing belt in order to get the valves to close to create the sealed cylinder? At the very least you'll put maybe $20 on a plate fabrication instead of throwing $80 at head gaskets that might be used only for the leak down test. Again Im just theorizing off of my limited knowledge base.

I know they make a air pressure plate to test heads, not sure about cylinders though!

 

[athlon450]

I once fashioned a metal plate with and air fitting and a rubber base to pressure bleed a brake system. I wonder if you could do the same with a couple of holes for head bolts that would match up for all 6 cylinders individually and see what kind of loss you get.

Another possible idea (I dont know if this would produce any results) is to drop the oil pan and pour a fluid of your choice into each cylinder and see if it drains out the bottom. You could probably do this without dropping the pan if you could monitor the level in a particular cylinder. Again, Im only making things up here...maybe someone can shut this down before you waste your time.

Liquid would evetually makes its way around the rings. Wont give you a good detail of piston skirt and ring condition. Not that much into it, to just drop the pan and pop the pistons out, rering and new rod bearing. I haven't heard of many 5VZ bottom ends just giving up the ghost.