5VZ-FE Replacement Sourcing

[prybar]

Hi all,

I've had my '99 4R for 4 years now, bought it from an old lady who was the only other owner in its life. She took it to the dealer for everything and kept all receipts. Since I bought it, I have taken great care of it mechanically, oil changes at every 3k, using quality oil and good filters.

Yesterday on my way to work, I was sitting at a red light and all of a sudden, got a bad misfire accompanied by clanking coming from the engine. Shit. Pulled over, couldn't figure out the issue right away - it sounded like a broken lifter or something. Took it to the AAA shop (they could get me in the quickest) and they say I spun a rod bearing and there's damage to the lower. They determined this without taking the engine apart, and said they didn't see any metal shavings or chunks in the oil or filter. I trust that their guys are experienced, but I'm not sure how they made this diagnosis and they won't let me talk to the tech (AAA policy, complete BS). For the guys with experience on this motor, how does this diagnosis sound? Would you trust it? They said usually with this sort of issue, it ends up just costing the customer more to tear down the engine and that they'd likely replace it anyway.

So they're telling me my best bet is a motor swap. They want to charge about $5000 for labor. Is this fair?

Where are you guys sourcing your motors from? I'm leaning towards a recycler yard - ToyAuto Mart here in Rancho Cordova, since they're nearby and I can't wait weeks for a new motor - this is my only vehicle. The shop said they've had good luck with Jasper Motors, but those are $4-5k and I don't want to drop $10k on a motor swap. I'm mechanically inclined, but I really don't have the time or interest to do the swap myself. Jeggs sells them for $4-5k as well, but again that's more than I'd like to spend. JDM motor could be an option, but again I can't have the truck down for too long since it's my only vehicle and I'm supposed to move this week. I am aware of all the parts I'd need to swap from my motor and am not worried about that - more concerned with lead time and cost.

Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated. I want to keep my 4R, I couldn't imagine going with a different vehicle at this point and I don't think I'd have luck finding another good one right now, as the prices are pretty high in my area. I'm kinda at a loss for which option to take, so if anyone has experience, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can give me any info on this.

 

[diverscale]

I don't think a spun bearing could cause a misfire...

did the engine make a toc toc toc noise continually?

Maybe start by taking out your spark plugs and have a look at them.

A spun bearing would definitely bring shiny particles to the filter I can't see how it couldn't do so.

 

[prybar]

I don't think a spun bearing could cause a misfire...

did the engine make a toc toc toc noise continually?

Maybe start by taking out your spark plugs and have a look at them.

A spun bearing would definitely bring shiny particles to the filter I can't see how it couldn't do so.

I did have a valve tick before this happened, which was there for a few months. This made me think that it could have been a lifter or something along those lines, along with the fact I could hear it better on the passenger side.

My truck is at their shop so I can't take a look at it. I don't think it was actually misfiring since I didn't get a code for that, and I have fresh plugs and coils (1 year old, densos). But it felt like a misfire, for lack of better words. It also lurched slightly while in gear when I went to pull over.

I'm in the same boat about the bearings. Seems a little shady, maybe the desk guy misunderstood the techs diagnosis.

 

[diverscale]

there are no lifters so no lifter tick possible. What you heard for months might have been a rod knock, manifold leak, a purge valve or something else.

If it was rod knock, a spun bearing is possible but IMO would show in the oil filter. Have they done a compression test?

 

[prybar]

there are no lifters so no lifter tick possible. What you heard for months might have been a rod knock, manifold leak, a purge valve or something else.

If it was rod knock, a spun bearing is possible but IMO would show in the oil filter. Have they done a compression test?

Well, I thought it was a valve tick, sorry I misspoke. You're right about the lifters. It definitely was not rod knock, it was more of a light tick with no weight to it. The guy who I spoke to at the front desk wasn't very helpful and couldn't really tell me what tests they had done, so I'm not sure about compression. I'll ask the manager tomorrow. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't even check it. Hopefully I can get some better info from the manager since I can't talk to the actual techs for some stupid policy reason.

 

[pluton]

Not being able to talk to the techs is common, but it's still BS. Have it towed to a better shop?

 

[prybar]

Not being able to talk to the techs is common, but it's still BS. Have it towed to a better shop?

I'm considering options. I'm going to call around today to other shops and see what they say, if they agree with the diagnosis, how much they would charge for the same work, etc.

The motor definitely sounds really bad. It seems that there's not many shops in my area that are actually willing to tear into the motor and work on internals, so at this point I may be forced to go the swap route..

 

[Ibrad]

I would not go with the first shop that told me something. I fix everything myself as I don't trust any shop for anything. They're in business to make money and if they aren't letting you talk to a tech then I see that as the classic pressure tactic. I'd sit outside at closing time then talk to the dirtiest guy as he walks out of the shop. Chances are he's a young guy that knows nothing much about diagnosing much of anything. If internal damage has happened there will be signs of metal in the oil and filter. If oil is clean please look elsewhere and start with the simple stuff first. New coils do go bad. A couple of bad coils will cause the motor to clank as you said and will make it seem as though something bad has happened. If this is your spare vehicle take it home and diagnose yourself. A spun bearing will not cause a code to throw. Do not let them just swap your motor without a complete tear down and showing you the bad parts to prove their diagnosis. This forum will guide you in the right direction if you just listen to what others are saying. You are free to do what you want but I suggest working on the rig yourself. You can only gain knowledge and understanding of how everything works and provide insight to others that may encounter things such as this.

 

[prybar]

I would not go with the first shop that told me something. I fix everything myself as I don't trust any shop for anything. They're in business to make money and if they aren't letting you talk to a tech then I see that as the classic pressure tactic. I'd sit outside at closing time then talk to the dirtiest guy as he walks out of the shop. Chances are he's a young guy that knows nothing much about diagnosing much of anything. If internal damage has happened there will be signs of metal in the oil and filter. If oil is clean please look elsewhere and start with the simple stuff first. New coils do go bad. A couple of bad coils will cause the motor to clank as you said and will make it seem as though something bad has happened. If this is your spare vehicle take it home and diagnose yourself. A spun bearing will not cause a code to throw. Do not let them just swap your motor without a complete tear down and showing you the bad parts to prove their diagnosis. This forum will guide you in the right direction if you just listen to what others are saying. You are free to do what you want but I suggest working on the rig yourself. You can only gain knowledge and understanding of how everything works and provide insight to others that may encounter things such as this.

Thanks for your insight. I was able to talk to the shop manager today, and he basically said they diagnosed it based off other 3rd gens that have come in with the same sound/symptoms. They said they'd be happy to pull the motor apart and only fix what's wrong, but he said a lot of times there's more wrong than is worth it to fix, and they'll end up swapping the motor.

I spoke to a different shop today (Made in Japan) about a second opinion. They said they'd tear the motor apart to diagnose and that if it were the bearings then it would obviously be a relatively cheap fix compared to a swap.

Unfortunately, this is my only vehicle. I just signed a new apartment lease and I need to start moving my stuff, and it sucks to do without a car. So I really need to get it back on the road ASAP.

I definitely didn't get any pressure from the shop to start work on anything, they've been super nice and answered all my questions.

Taking the vehicle home to drop the pan and look at the lowers will take more time than I have right now, due to having to move. The timing is really poor.

But I agree with everything you're saying about verifying the problem before dropping a huge chunk of money on a new motor. However, it would be nice to start with a fresh motor - I'm burning oil pretty bad.

Still undecided on what route to take. I wish I had the time and space to just look at everything myself, but unfortunately, I just don't at the moment.

 

[Ibrad]

A shop can't diagnose one car by what other cars they've seen come in. Every car doesn't have the same problem although the same problem does happen in the same cars for sure. Although a new motor seems logical the rest of your rig will still be the same. Older bushings and bearings and everything else that may need attention will still be waiting for your wallet to open just the same. Think this way. If you have enough cash reserves to sink into a 4-5 thousand dollar motor why not find a cheaper car to drive now and slowly bring the 4Runner back to life on your own. That's my suggestion. You have to drive something if you let the shop fix your rig anyway. Find a good deal on a used car that will get you by for a year or so and work on the rig yourself. I'd suggest also looking for a wrecked 4Runner and see if you can pick one up for cheap and swap in that motor.

 

[yuckscott]

well if it makes you feel any better, I can commiserate. Last summer was visiting family across the country and got a bad misfire and white smoke out the tailpipe. had to get back out west to return to work so I didn't have much of a choice but to bring it to the only shop I could find locally who would tear it down. got the engine more or less rebuilt with all new gaskets and seals, replaned the heads, new fuel injectors and more. hurt the wallet and lost me a couple weeks of sleep but in the long run, im glad with the outcome. best of luck.

 

[diverscale]

If there really is internal damage and the shop can do it, and it is your only vehicle, I'd go for it. Might even be faster than finding another car these days. Then once you get it back in order, rust proof the shit out of it every year and replace every fluid per specs (diffs, xfer case, pan drop on transmission once in a while) and you'll still have a great vehicle for a while to come.

I just hope for you that the diagnostic was fair with the lack of information that you can provide.

 

[pluton]

Unfortunately, this is my only vehicle. I just signed a new apartment lease and I need to start moving my stuff, and it sucks to do without a car. So I really need to get it back on the road ASAP.

Rebuilding/partial rebuilding/swapping the motor isn't going to be a "drop it off Tuesday, pick it up Thursday" type of thing. It could be in for a week or longer.
The idea of buying a cheap car is worth considering IMO. Also, you could rent a U-Haul pickup truck (or equivalent) which would be very helpful for moving.

 

[TracyNorton]

PLEASE do not take it back to that shop.
If what you say they were telling you....something is jank there.
Try another MORE REPUTABLE shop for a diagnosis...
Drive 100mi if you have to....

 

[prybar]

If there really is internal damage and the shop can do it, and it is your only vehicle, I'd go for it. Might even be faster than finding another car these days. Then once you get it back in order, rust proof the shit out of it every year and replace every fluid per specs (diffs, xfer case, pan drop on transmission once in a while) and you'll still have a great vehicle for a while to come.

I just hope for you that the diagnostic was fair with the lack of information that you can provide.

Thanks man, just dropped it at the shop today, we'll see what they say when they tear into in. Hoping for the best, expecting the worst of course. I maintain the whole rig pretty damn well, All my fluids are fresh, and I live in the CA valley, so rust isn't an issue for me here. Hoping I can keep her running for years to come

 

[prybar]

Rebuilding/partial rebuilding/swapping the motor isn't going to be a "drop it off Tuesday, pick it up Thursday" type of thing. It could be in for a week or longer.
The idea of buying a cheap car is worth considering IMO. Also, you could rent a U-Haul pickup truck (or equivalent) which would be very helpful for moving.

Yup I'm aware at best-case scenerio I'll not have a vehicle for a couple weeks. I have access to my folks vehicles to use and am setting up a rental for the mean time. Don't really want to go thru the headache of buying a beater for a short time, though it could be an option if I need. I probably will end up doing a u-haul truck or something to move

 

[prybar]

PLEASE do not take it back to that shop.
If what you say they were telling you....something is jank there.
Try another MORE REPUTABLE shop for a diagnosis...
Drive 100mi if you have to....

Yup, exactly what I'm doing. I brought it there just cause they could get me in the same day, I thought since it was AAA they'd be real mechanics... nope. Bringing it down to the Made in Japan shop, I've been there before and they do good work. Waiting to hear back on what they found.

Yeah, I just couldn't see how a guess could justify a new motor. Even if I do need a rebuild, I gotta know for sure before I drop that kind of cash.

New motor would be cool though...

 

[prybar]

A shop can't diagnose one car by what other cars they've seen come in. Every car doesn't have the same problem although the same problem does happen in the same cars for sure. Although a new motor seems logical the rest of your rig will still be the same. Older bushings and bearings and everything else that may need attention will still be waiting for your wallet to open just the same. Think this way. If you have enough cash reserves to sink into a 4-5 thousand dollar motor why not find a cheaper car to drive now and slowly bring the 4Runner back to life on your own. That's my suggestion. You have to drive something if you let the shop fix your rig anyway. Find a good deal on a used car that will get you by for a year or so and work on the rig yourself. I'd suggest also looking for a wrecked 4Runner and see if you can pick one up for cheap and swap in that motor.

Thanks for your input. Totally agree with what you said about diagnosis being shady. The shop just wants my money they don't give a shit about me or my vehicle.

I maintain the 4R pretty damn well, I'm not worried about bushings or bearings, I'll just take those as they come. I would like to attempt the motor swap myself, but realistically I don't have the space or time to do that right now. As far as sourcing motors, I found a couple good yards in my area that have good used options. But at this point, if I do have to swap it, I'm leaning towards a rebuilt one so I don't have to worry about my motor for a few years.

A lot of folks would get a car to drive for a year while they fix up the 4R, but in my case, not doing the work myself, I might as well just have the shop fix it and I'll drive a rental in the meantime. Buying and selling cars can be a headache (or I've just had headaches with it), so I'd rather not go thru the hassle. Hoping to get good news from the second-opinion shop today, but expecting bad news. Fingers crossed

 

[prybar]

Update: got a call back from the shop that actually looked at the motor, and they said it's best to do a swap. So at this point I'm looking at rebuilt engines.

Side note - with a new motor I'd be comfortable installing the TRD supercharger. Anyone know a good place to source these? Looking online, all I can seem to find is the new Magnussen supercharger and I don't want to drop $4k.

 

[phattyduck]

Update: got a call back from the shop that actually looked at the motor, and they said it's best to do a swap. So at this point I'm looking at rebuilt engines.

Side note - with a new motor I'd be comfortable installing the TRD supercharger. Anyone know a good place to source these? Looking online, all I can seem to find is the new Magnussen supercharger and I don't want to drop $4k.

$4k is quite cheap for a brand new supercharger system... look at prices for other applications.

Used older style (MP62 instead of TVS1320) are likely still going for like $3k unless they are beat up and in poor condition.

-Charlie