5vz rebuild

[SV_Dude]

I'm picking up a 98 supercharged runner on Wednesday but it has 255k miles and a blown engine. I'm going to rebuild the engine and sc. I have seen the rebuild kits from lce for about 800 or so. Anyone use a different kit that comes with reliable parts for less money?

I also did a search but couldn't find any threads from anyone who did an engine rebuild. Anyone know of one?

 

[PitbullRescuer]

The LCE kit is the way to go. It's actually a great kit for the money.

 

[SV_Dude]

Anyone have a link for a 5vz rebuild thread?

 

[SV_Dude]

So... I picked up my newest 4runner today. It's a 98 SR5 5 spd with a supercharged 3.4. I got it for a decent price because the engine is making an awkward noise. The engine has 256k on it and the supercharger has about 100k on it. I'll rebuild the supercharger and run a compression check on the engine but may end up rebuilding the entire engine depending on the compression and the cause of this noise once I find it.

Here's the video:


I'm guessing that this noise is coming from the top end because to me it doesn't sound like a bottom end noise. Also, this noise is only existing when the motor is running. During start the engine doesn't make any noise and I can get it to come and go by blipping the throttle. Either way I'm going to start tearing the engine apart tomorrow after I do a compression test on all the cylinders. I'll start with the front end of the engine and then go from the top down and pulling the block as a last resort. Hopefully the compression will be good and the noise is in the heads and this will be a simple fix.

 

[BrianSD_42]

I didn't find any "Rebuild Guides" or DIY threads per say ...

but there is this thread => http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/126738-5vzfe-rebuild-process-reccommendations.html


I assume you searched YotaTech as well.

After going through a bad rebuild, I've come to the conclusion that it's just NOT cost effective to rebuild a 3.4 the correct way (with OEM parts). I skimped and did it with cheaper aftermarket parts and my motor only lasted about 1.5 years until I had head/valve problems again among other issues like a leaky rear main seal. That left me with the decision to rebuild it again the right way (for about $4K+ with labor - top and bottom), or just get a lower mileage donor motor to swap in.

I do think it's worth it to pull the heads and see what you're dealing with first though. If it's just a head gasket, then I say throw a new set on, resurface the heads and go with it. No need to rebuild the top end if it's just a bad gasket. However if the heads are cracked, severely warped, or have valve issues and need to be rebuilt, then it's going to be a very expensive job to do with OEM parts. And take it from me, DONT use aftermarket crap. You could either try to find a used head(s) and put that on or just get a whole new donor motor. Either of those will be cheaper than rebuilding with OEM parts. And granted, there is always a risk when you buy a used motor or parts, but the price is worth it IMO, especially if you can get a warranty with the donor motor or heads.

Definitely DO NOT use the coolant additive gasket sealer like Stop Leak or Thermagasket. They may work for a short time, but will undoubtedly restrict flow (or clog) your cooling system and water pump. I tried that crap on my truck before I rebuilt it, followed the directions to a tee, and it almost immediately blew my water pump (in like 10 minutes).

So if I were you, if it's not just a bad HG, I would just find a low mileage donor or a used head and go from there. I got a 3.4 with 127K and it's actually being swapped in as we speak. I paid <$500 for the motor, but $800-1200 is about average. If you can do the swap yourself, this would definitely be the cheapest option.

 

[BrianSD_42]

I believe I am the only one on this forum with JE aftermarket heads.

I paid $800 each side for complete aftermarket head by JE (what I was told) and they are still running strong 18 months and 20k miles later. No issues to date. (knock on wood)

Apparently they are pretty popular on the racing scene for 5VZ-FE rebuilds here in SoCal. The shop where I had my work done claims to install them on about 5-6 trucks every month.

 

[SV_Dude]

So I started the tear down today on the engine. Before I tore it down I ran a compression test on all 6 cylinders. 5 cylinders were from 145-155 psi and cylinder #2 was at 125 psi. I think it's a bit low but probably normal for 255k miles. I'm torn whether I should rebuild it or not. How many miles do you guys put on these 5vz engines before you worry about them? Keep in mind this is a supercharged runner with the 6 injector kit and a 2.1 pulley. If I remember correctly, the po said it was tuned n a dyno putting out about 240 rwhp.

I should have done a leak down test but I forgot.

Here's the progress so far:

It doesn't look like much now but it was a few hours worth of work. The worst part was pulling the engine wiring harness from the transmission area. I got the front of the engine apart and the supercharger off. Over the next couple days ill hit it when I have time and try to find out where the noise is coming from.

 

[SV_Dude]

Keep in mind that those compression test numbers were on a cold engine and I didn't try to add any oil to the cylinders. I think if it were a warm engine the numbers would have been closer to 160 psi.

 

[hoe_nah]

looking forward to this thread...I'm thinking of rebuilding a spare motor

 

[BrianSD_42]

I'm torn whether I should rebuild it or not. How many miles do you guys put on these 5vz engines before you worry about them?

@ 255,000 miles you are probably better off (cost & long term reliability) just sourcing a used engine.

 

[8sm]

A machine shop can evaluate the block and heads condition. Your concern is warranted considering its been s/c and the miles. Having said that, if done properly, machined and assembled correctly you should get another 250k miles.

Replace the knock sensors and harness while torn down.

Regards ...... 8sm

 

[SV_Dude]

@ 255,000 miles you are probably better off (cost & long term reliability) just sourcing a used engine.

Why a used engine instead of a rebuild? LCE has rebuild kits for just a tad under 900 and they have Mel's head gaskets, new water/oil pumps, timing belt goodies and seals. As long as the block doesn't need to be bored then ill have them deck the heads of the block a couple thousandths, hone the cylinders and hot tank it. The block work should be no more than a couple hundred to include a check of the heads. S/c rebuild will be about 150 bucks or so, maybe less and between other misc fluids maybe anther 80 bucks.

All said and done I can have basically a brand new engine and s/c for under 1500 bucks. A new engine alone from someone reliable is way over that cost, and a used engine I'm rolling the dice with so I'm not seeing the logic there.

 

[Willhickey]

The only issue I see with this plan is you have to do rings since your not sure if the leaks in the heads or block . Also you might as well plastigage the block and put in new bearing .. Hone cylinders ( knowing a toyota prolly doesn't need it ) point is it all ads up quick . It's the little stuff like head bolts torque to yield etc that breaks you ...

 

[EatonKyleH]

I know you are already torn down but a couple things and diag tips come to mind when I see this kind of thing.

Running compression tests, and if a cylinder is shown to be further suspect a cylinder leak down test.

When you have an engine noise and suspect a certain cylinder try forcing a misfire on the suspect cylinder (such as pulling a plug wire). Relieving it of the force caused by detonation can sometimes make the noise go away which would typically indicate lower engine problems.

I personally am a big fan of the stethoscope for isolating noises just without the turn your head and cough kinda thing. I do also have a nice digital borescope it you wanted to to take a look down in the cylinders through the spark plug holes for scoring, piston/valve damage, and the like.

In no way am I trying to tell you what to do or how to do it. Just trying to lend a hand as I am fairly local and travel south near you to see family regularly.

Good Luck,
-Kyle

 

[Willhickey]

I would go used or reman

 

[Willhickey]

That guy ahead is head on we diagnose stuff so we know what to fix ...

 

[SV_Dude]

The only issue I see with this plan is you have to do rings since your not sure if the leaks in the heads or block . Also you might as well plastigage the block and put in new bearing .. Hone cylinders ( knowing a toyota prolly doesn't need it ) point is it all ads up quick . It's the little stuff like head bolts torque to yield etc that breaks you ...

Like I said, I forgot to do a leakdown test so we don't know if any cylinder is leaking. As for machine work, it's only needed if I decide to do a rebuild.

I know you are already torn down but a couple things and diag tips come to mind when I see this kind of thing.

Running compression tests, and if a cylinder is shown to be further suspect a cylinder leak down test.

When you have an engine noise and suspect a certain cylinder try forcing a misfire on the suspect cylinder (such as pulling a plug wire). Relieving it of the force caused by detonation can sometimes make the noise go away which would typically indicate lower engine problems.

I personally am a big fan of the stethoscope for isolating noises just without the turn your head and cough kinda thing. I do also have a nice digital borescope it you wanted to to take a look down in the cylinders through the spark plug holes for scoring, piston/valve damage, and the like.

In no way am I trying to tell you what to do or how to do it. Just trying to lend a hand as I am fairly local and travel south near you to see family regularly.

Good Luck,
-Kyle

I should have done a leakdown test but I forgot to do it. I figured it was a moot point because either way I'm taking the heads off and having the machine shop go through them and rebuild/replace as necessary.

I'm fairly certain the noise isn't coming from the bottom end but I'll pull the oil pan either way and check all the bearings to be sure they're in good shape if I decide not to rebuild.

 

[EatonKyleH]

I should have done a leakdown test but I forgot to do it. I figured it was a moot point because either way I'm taking the heads off and having the machine shop go through them and rebuild/replace as necessary.

I'm fairly certain the noise isn't coming from the bottom end but I'll pull the oil pan either way and check all the bearings to be sure they're in good shape if I decide not to rebuild.

Sounds like a good plan and I would guess top engine as well. I'm sure you'll get this thing in order and be loving it real soon.

 

[8sm]

I would also suggest considering what made it possible for your engine as well as many other 3.4L 3rd gen engines last so darn long. Then I would try to duplicate that process of success for longlasting results. In others words .... consider OEM parts.

Regards ..... 8sm


P.s. I would strongly suggest taking up Kyle on his offer.

 

[SV_Dude]

I would also suggest considering what made it possible for your engine as well as many other 3.4L 3rd gen engines last so darn long. Then I would try to duplicate that process of success for longlasting results. In others words .... consider OEM parts.

Regards ..... 8sm


P.s. I would strongly suggest taking up Kyle on his offer.

I'll use the LCE rebuild kit if I decide on a rebuild, toyota parts are way too expensive and I think they are pretty equal to LCE as far as quality of their parts.

I was thinking that a bore scope would have been handy yesterday while I was diagnosing the engine but I wasn't going to get myself hung up on not having one. A bore scope would only have told me what I was going to find out by taking the heads off anyway. Don't get me wrong, I am grateful that Kyle offered to help and I'm sure that during this process I may have to ask him for help on a thing or two.

I may have a line on a totaled 99 limited runner with a good engine, leather interior and an e-locker. Depending on what comes of this 4runner I may not have to do a whole lot at all other than swap some parts over.