5VZ vs. 3RZ Valve Job

[head_always_up]

I own both the 3RZ and the 5VZ. I am competent at many tasks with my vehicles, but in my life I work a full-time job, have a kid, 3 dogs, am selling my house, and a number of other things.

Time is precious.

The valve job looks fairly easy on the 3RZ 2.7L. I am willing to spend my valuable time on this job.

The valve job looks a lot more time consuming on the 5VZ 3.4L.

If I have to weight out my precious time and money, should I do the easier 3RZ valve jobs myself and pay about $715 (in 2023) for the 5VZ valve job (I trust this mechanic well)?

Looks more time consuming and involved for valve job on the V6 than the 4-cylinder. Two-sides, more gaskets, etc. I am a busy guy. And I want to go fishing soon and sight my new rifle before I get old.

 

[mtbtim]

Dude, you own two rigs. What's the rush? You work on one in your spare time and you have the other one for transportation.

You know who the best person to work on your rig is? It's you! I suggest buying the OEM valve shim tools. They are worth the money.


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[Pyral]

It depends. People will say the 3rz, but what took me longest wasn't getting to the valves (~5% of the time) , or even measuring the clearance which took some time (~20% of the time). What me by far the most time was removing the valves (~75% of the time).

Because the number of valves shims is dependent on the clearances of the existing ones, it's not a guarantee that you'll need to remove any. My 3rz likely had it done 100k miles before I did it, and I had to replace 12/16 shims. A maintained 5vz wouldn't require removing that many shims, but my I4 did. And there is no way to know what your in for without measuring them.

I say go with whatever engine you know got the adjustment done last. If you don't know, then the 3rz will have the better worst case scenario. But it's an inevitable service item, you'll have to do the other unless you want to get new valves.


Also the Schley valve tool that Timmy used in the 3rz video (and the one I used as well) is no longer made. It's a very necessary tool.

 

[davidch]

Likely I will be widely condemned for making this suggestion, which contains a massive assumption, WRT the 6-cylinder. But here goes:

You could just check clearances on the passenger side bank of cylinders. This would save time and money. No gaskets needed. If those 12 valves are well within spec, it's probably safe to assume the 12 on the other side are too.

Furthermore the 6, in my experience, is far more likely to hold its clearances than the 4-cylinder. Thus a check-only examination of the passenger side bank is useful, quick, and makes no demand for special tools.

You could do this in under two hours.

The attached photo shows my shim collection. 44 shims in there. About 10 are new. The others are shims I've removed and replaced from four 5VZ-FE, five 3RZ-FE, and one 2RZ-FE.

 

[IEatPieLeftHanded]

Id do the 4 banger and pay someone to do the 6 banger assuming you know that this has to be done (you are getting a slight tick) If you can, wait until you need to do valve covers so you can do that as well

 

[mtbtim]

Likely I will be widely condemned for making this suggestion, which contains a massive assumption, WRT the 6-cylinder. But here goes:

You could just check clearances on the passenger side bank of cylinders. This would save time and money. No gaskets needed. If those 12 valves are well within spec, it's probably safe to assume the 12 on the other side are too.

Furthermore the 6, in my experience, is far more likely to hold its clearances than the 4-cylinder. Thus a check-only examination of the passenger side bank is useful, quick, and makes no demand for special tools.

You could do this in under two hours.

The attached photo shows my shim collection. 44 shims in there. About 10 are new. The others are shims I've removed and replaced from four 5VZ-FE, five 3RZ-FE, and one 2RZ-FE.

I think you're correct that the 3RZ is more prone to needing a valve lash adjustment than the 5VZ. But, with that said, my recent experience doing the valve lash adjustment on my 5VZ showed me I had 4 valves out of spec and several others that were at the limit of the spec. I'm glad I finally got off my ass and did it.

To avoid having to have my rig down for a couple days waiting for needed shims to come in, I spent a bunch of money building a shim kit. I bought 2 of each size shim, with the exception of the largest shim size which I didn't purchase any of. I got them for around $10/each from my local dealer that gives me a discount due to my Timmy the Toolman channel and because I've built a good relationship with the Parts Department employees.

I've now done the valve lash adjustment twice, once on my buddy Wei's rig and once on my 2000. I've also done a valve lash adjustment on [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] 2002, but that was part of the cylinder head replacement video series we recently filmed, and it was way easier, because I was able to not only pull the exhaust cam, but the intake cam as well, because the cam pulleys were off.

So, your advice does make logical sense, but if it were me, and this was a rig I was going to keep for a very long time, I'd put the time in and get both valve covers off and do the complete job so I know my engine valve lash is within spec and I'm going to avoid burning up a valve forcing me to pull the head and spend a lot more time and money to fix it.

A final thing I'd like to say is you can't always get the lash exactly where you want it due to the limit in valve shim sizes. It's always better to be at the upper end of the spec rather than the lower end of the spec. A valve at the upper end isn't going to cause you much issue. A valve that is too tight, won't allow the valve to close all the way and you'll end up burning a hole in the side of it because the ignited air/fuel mixture is able to blow past it and not get the full cooling effect from the engine coolant running through the coolant jackets in the head. When the valve is fully seated, the heat from the combustion process is directed from the valve, to the valve seat and then to the aluminum head. If the valve isn't fully seating, the the complete transfer of heat from the valve to the valve seat isn't happening. So, the hot gases are blowing past that valve acting like a blow torch eating metal away from the valve until there's a hole in it. I learned this recently from a guy who works at Yota1 Performance and has been in the engine machining business for 45 years. I did adjust some valves from the upper end of the spec to somewhere in the middle and it was a judgement call. Maybe I should have left them alone at .014 for the exhaust valves, instead of adjusting them and bringing them to .012. But, regardless, all my valves are within spec and I'm happy I did it. I think I'm good for another 100k miles, but maybe I'll check it again in another 50k.

Check out my Valve Lash Work Sheet below.

 

[davidch]

Toyota sells shims in thicknesses from 2.5 to 3.3 millimeters, in increments of 0.05mm

I had intended to add a link to an Australian company that makes 28mm shims from 2.0 to 5.50 millimeters, in increments of 0.02mm. I have not ordered any shims from them.

Flat Shims

That they have shims of less than 2.50mm might be useful to know.

 

[gamefreakgc]

Without checking the valve clearances you might be paying for a job that isn't even needed. The 5VZ-FE is very easy on valves and doubtful that you'd need any done. Even in Tim's example, only four were out of spec and only very slightly with most of them on the exhaust cams. Not one was more than 0.001 out of spec so that tells you something. That's been my experience with the 5VZ-FE as well, the valves and clearances are normally fine even after 100,000 or 200,000 miles. The ones I replaced years ago were once again, just barely out of spec and almost entirely on the exhaust cams.

If you're concerned about your 3RZ-FE engine then pop the valve cover off and check the clearances. If they are out of spec and you'd rather pay money than time have your shop do it. But don't bring them in blind with no issues or problems related to a valve stuck open or closed and pay a shop to fix a problem that isn't there. This is not a 'peace of mind' sort of job as it's very expensive to pay a shop to do it (some shops will outright refuse) and rarely causes any serious consequences if left alone for years. You'll start throwing misfire codes if a valve ever gets that bad.

 

[head_always_up]

You know who the best person to work on your rig is? It's you!

Don't I know it. The best mechanics still don't do your own vehicle justice a lot of the time. And what about replacing the A/C Compressor for a customer and not addressing an obvious leak in the line? Then later offering to fix it for you for more money and another round of opening the system, and the whole time not bothering to consider replacing easy wear items, like the drier?

 

[head_always_up]

Furthermore the 6, in my experience, is far more likely to hold its clearances than the 4-cylinder. Thus a check-only examination of the passenger side bank is useful, quick, and makes no demand for special tools.

The mechanic I have lined up who would do this job, if I don't, already said the same thing. Which is that in his experience the V6 rarely needed much. If I did it myself, I would consider your idea quoted above.

I don't know when either of these vehicles last had the adjustment, if ever!

But the 5VZ needs the valve cover job NOW. The 3RZ most likely also needs it now or soon.

As far as the clearances, my gut says the 4-cylinder needs it more based on the engine and my experience, and based on your comments in this thread. Anyway, even though I have both of these vehicles and a backup daily driver, I am doing so much other work on these vehicles and another vehicle right now that I am okay paying to have someone do one of the valve jobs (most likely). I hate do it, but this thread was basically about deciding which one was harder and how much time I have to tackle it, versus pay for it on the harder vehicle.

 

[head_always_up]

Without checking the valve clearances you might be paying for a job that isn't even needed.

On the V6 the valve cover needs to get done. It's leaking, which is what started this, and I made the appointment with my mechanic in case I needed it and wanted him to tack on the clearances to the valve cover job. Then I started thinking I should do this myself even though I don't have much free time right now.

But then I realized the 4-banger also needed the valve cover replaced sooner than later. Which is why I thought, pick one and do one, and pay someone for the other.

Like it was said, don't want to take anything in blind. Also, don't want to fuss around if the clearances are okay. They probably won't be though on the 3RZ.

Thanks all. At least I know the 3RZ is easy to get to, so if I do the valve cover job and check the clearances, it won't take too much time. Sounds like getting the shims out can sometimes be hard.

EDIT: AND THANKS to Timmy for the videos that help in the first place! Even though I have an extra vehicle, it's still more about other logistics and time. About to rip into my 5.9 Cummins this weekend, first of all, and do the water pump, thermostat, coolant refill, fan clutch, serpentine belt, and radiator hoses all at once - cause it's easier if things get opened up for the fan clutch job already. And the only thing on that last that might not be needed is the water pump, but hey, it wasn't that expensive and it's gonna be perfectly exposed already. My life is about paying others for services sometimes, and saving money other times. And having free time with my family, getting some exercise, catching some fish, and getting ready for the hunting season. Only so many hours in a week.

 

[Pyral]

One word of caution about the 3rz, avoid turning the camshaft with several shims removed. The cam lobes like to catch on the edge of the empty shim buckets and bind up, if you keep turning the edge of the shim bucket will crack and potentially mar your camshaft lobe.

Measure the shim thickness and reinstall it. Removing the shims twice sucks, but removing the camshaft to replace a bucket is worse.

 

[gamefreakgc]

On the V6 the valve cover needs to get done. It's leaking, which is what started this, and I made the appointment with my mechanic in case I needed it and wanted him to tack on the clearances to the valve cover job. Then I started thinking I should do this myself even though I don't have much free time right now.

But then I realized the 4-banger also needed the valve cover replaced sooner than later. Which is why I thought, pick one and do one, and pay someone for the other.

Like it was said, don't want to take anything in blind. Also, don't want to fuss around if the clearances are okay. They probably won't be though on the 3RZ.

Thanks all. At least I know the 3RZ is easy to get to, so if I do the valve cover job and check the clearances, it won't take too much time. Sounds like getting the shims out can sometimes be hard.

EDIT: AND THANKS to Timmy for the videos that help in the first place! Even though I have an extra vehicle, it's still more about other logistics and time. About to rip into my 5.9 Cummins this weekend, first of all, and do the water pump, thermostat, coolant refill, fan clutch, serpentine belt, and radiator hoses all at once - cause it's easier if things get opened up for the fan clutch job already. And the only thing on that last that might not be needed is the water pump, but hey, it wasn't that expensive and it's gonna be perfectly exposed already. My life is about paying others for services sometimes, and saving money other times. And having free time with my family, getting some exercise, catching some fish, and getting ready for the hunting season. Only so many hours in a week.

Gotcha, that makes sense about why you are looking to get the valves adjusted in the first place. I still would not be surprised if your mechanic gets the valve covers off, checks the clearances and tells you that they are ok. I think that would be the best case scenario and then you're only paying for a valve cover gasket job. I hope the repairs go smoothly!

 

[head_always_up]

And the results are in...

I decided to pay to have the 5VZ Valve Cover Job done by my mechanic and have him check the clearances. My logic was the same as started for the most part, which was that I am so busy I will pay to have the more time consuming valve cover job done (5VZ) and do the less time consuming one myself (3RZ) sometime in the near future.

The job ran $545 if anyone wants a comparison. This is late June 2023 in Western Montana, for reference. I figure I've saved a lot of money doing virtually all the maintenance myself already, so paying for some work every now and then doesn't stress me out.

5VZ clearances were within spec, although some on the low end for intake.

Cyl. 6 Intake were both .005, and Cyl. 3 Intake were both .005. The rest of intake was either .007 or .008.

Exhaust was essentially in the middle of spec.


We'll see how the 2.7L looks when I get to it!

 

[burningclutch]

Glad you ended up with everything in clearance. Curious how many miles are on your 3.4?

been looking at this job as well and seems like the real pain in the neck is getting the shims out with the cam in. I’m not afraid to pull the exhaust cam and it looks way easier than messing with prying the shims out. my plan was to not use the special tools at all. check clearances, pull exhaust cams measure shims and replace as necessary. as for the intake cam i’m overdue for a tb job anyway so if those are out of spec i should be able to pull that as well after the tensioners are out of the way etc. am i missing anything here?

of course at this point it would be tempting to go ahead and pull the whole head off and take a look. ugh

thanks for the vids [MENTION=120071]mtbtim[/MENTION], gave me the confidence to buy a beat up old 3rd gen that needs some love at 255k miles

 

[amalik]

Glad you ended up with everything in clearance. Curious how many miles are on your 3.4?

been looking at this job as well and seems like the real pain in the neck is getting the shims out with the cam in. I’m not afraid to pull the exhaust cam and it looks way easier than messing with prying the shims out. my plan was to not use the special tools at all. check clearances, pull exhaust cams measure shims and replace as necessary. as for the intake cam i’m overdue for a tb job anyway so if those are out of spec i should be able to pull that as well after the tensioners are out of the way etc. am i missing anything here?

of course at this point it would be tempting to go ahead and pull the whole head off and take a look. ugh

thanks for the vids [MENTION=120071]mtbtim[/MENTION], gave me the confidence to buy a beat up old 3rd gen that needs some love at 255k miles

Be careful. Pulling the head off means you need to re-seal /re-do the head gasket properly, and Lord knows being as OCD as we enthusiasts are, you might just get an idea to re-do your block and head while she's all apart. What started as a valve clearance check turns into a F1 race-car engine build on the old lady ound:

 

[head_always_up]

Just happened to notice this now...

Glad you ended up with everything in clearance. Curious how many miles are on your 3.4?

My 4Runner had about 208, 400 miles when the job got done. The mechanic said he has seen many higher mileage 3.4L engines not needing adjustment.

my plan was to not use the special tools at all.

At least the feeler gauges with the angle...?