6 Disappearing Car Features

[Jeff Kleb]

Car Safety


Of course cars have gotten safer - with today's "econoboxes" being light years ahead of the huge behemoths that rolled out of Detroit decades ago. Radial tires, traction control, advanced suspensions, anti-lock disc brakes, crumple zones, better headlights, independent rear suspensions, sway bars, gas-charged shock absorbers, air bags, proximity sensors, adaptive cruise control, three-point safety belts and myriad other improvements have made our highway fatality rate plummet. No doubt about that! Even pavement technology and automated traffic signals have added to the mix.

That being said, there is nothing like the occasional chance to drive a "prehistoric" 1960s Detroit machine -- huge V8 engine with a 4bbl carburetor (preferably with mechanical secondaries), no power steering, no ABS, drum brakes all around, marshmallow suspension, bias-ply tires, stick shift with a dry clutch and no emission controls whatsoever. Try it on a snowy day for some extra fun!

The best you can do (with most modern performance cars) sometimes is switch off the traction control and have a little bit of fun in a parking lot.

There have always been good drivers and bad drivers - but it seems as though cars are getting better, while drivers keep getting worse. I drive almost 100,000 miles a year and it seems that etiquette, lane discipline and proper technique have gone to the dogs. Most people do not use their directional signals half as often as they should and only about 1/3 of motorists always drive in the proper lane (keeping right, except to pass). What many people do around tractor-trailers is nothing short of having a death wish!
:fish::der:

P.S. I love the video with the 1959 Impala. One of those (coupe version) was used as the platform for the "Batmobile" in the original TV series. The PA State Police had some trouble with the 1959 Chevy BelAir and Impala because the rear of the car had a vertical lift effect at high speeds.

 

[Hanau]

-all cars nowadays have factory tinted windows.
-4-lug wheels that are smaller than 15"
-front bench seats
-i think e-brakes handles will eventually disappear

 

[TRDCal]

Manual tranny? I had SMG on my old BMW M3 and that thing would shift so damn fast! How many of us are really good at manual shifting to REALLY take advantage of it?? I doubt more than a handful on this forum. How many do toe-heel braking into a corner on a consistent basis? Look at Porsche. Their dual-clutch automanual is damn good...and is the preferred tranny. Porsche Cayman going from 0-60 in 4.1 seconds! Wow.

Nostalgia is great...but nah, i prefer my A/C, power windows, status symbol (aka START), ATRAC, factory high-end audio system, and my dual-clutch tranny.

For alot of us it doesn't matter if the auto is a sec faster or gets better mpg, we just like driving manual transmissions. Plain and simple.

 

[Thai]

For alot of us it doesn't matter if the auto is a sec faster or gets better mpg, we just like driving manual transmissions. Plain and simple.

Fair enough. The connection of driver to machine. However, have you driven an automanual that is done right, such as DSG (in VW) or any other dual-clutch automanual? (Ford's dual clutch tranny in their cars suck to no end!) The connection is all there except for no clutch pedal. There is no torque converter. Shift action is super smooth and immediate. The car goes as if you're driving a manual...no "creep" and plenty of rollbacks on hills. And if you're ever in traffic, then it is far less demanding! And yeah, like a manual, you do need to replace the clutch...but far less frequent because the automated clutch exhibits less wear than human-abused clutches.

 

[Thai]

There have always been good drivers and bad drivers - but it seems as though cars are getting better, while drivers keep getting worse. I drive almost 100,000 miles a year and it seems that etiquette, lane discipline and proper technique have gone to the dogs. Most people do not use their directional signals half as often as they should and only about 1/3 of motorists always drive in the proper lane (keeping right, except to pass). What many people do around tractor-trailers is nothing short of having a death wish!

Jeff, I do agree that there are some folks who have a death wish out on the highways! And yeah, even though I am fairly young or old depending on mood (38 y/o), I do pay attention to proper etiquette on the road.

BTW, on my Prius, I have all those safety nannies, including radar cruise and lane keep assist (LKA). The LKA has actually FORCE me to use my turn signals a lot more now!! Because I use it all the time, if I make a lane change without signaling, LKA goes beeping-beeping-beeping! So, to avoid this annoyance (aka negative reinforcement), I use the turn signals more now! And I use it more now on my other cars that don't have this technology because I have "learned" it!

 

[eddiebx]

For alot of us it doesn't matter if the auto is a sec faster or gets better mpg, we just like driving manual transmissions. Plain and simple.

Out of curiosity, do you mean you rather drive a manual transmission even when out wheeling, or just generally speaking? Granted I am not well versed in off-road driving whatsoever, so please take this with a grain of salt, but I don't see any benefits of having a manual transmission in those instances?

I loved driving a manual transmission vehicle when I was younger, I wouldn't have it any other way. Now that I've gotten older I just start to not give a damn and rather enjoy having a free hand and foot at my disposal, lol.

 

[eddiebx]

Jeff, I do agree that there are some folks who have a death wish out on the highways! And yeah, even though I am fairly young or old depending on mood (38 y/o), I do pay attention to proper etiquette on the road.

BTW, on my Prius, I have all those safety nannies, including radar cruise and lane keep assist (LKA). The LKA has actually FORCE me to use my turn signals a lot more now!! Because I use it all the time, if I make a lane change without signaling, LKA goes beeping-beeping-beeping! So, to avoid this annoyance (aka negative reinforcement), I use the turn signals more now! And I use it more now on my other cars that don't have this technology because I have "learned" it!

Way off topic but, does the prius have this feature where you "tap" the signal stalk up or down and it blinks the turn signal for you approximately 3 times and stops? When I say tap, I mean you push it either up or down as if you are going to signal, but don't push it all the way so that it clicks into place.

I noticed this feature on a rental Camry, and found it pretty cool for when you just want to signal a lane change w/o heavy traffic around you.

 

[Thai]

Out of curiosity, do you mean you rather drive a manual transmission even when out wheeling, or just generally speaking? Granted I am not well versed in off-road driving whatsoever, so please take this with a grain of salt, but I don't see any benefits of having a manual transmission in those instances?

I loved driving a manual transmission vehicle when I was younger, I wouldn't have it any other way. Now that I've gotten older I just start to not give a damn and rather enjoy having a free hand and foot at my disposal, lol.

In off-roading, a manual transmission in general gives you two things:

1. Higher (numerical) crawl ratio...good for descending a big hill or cresting over a big rock.

2. You can choose the exact gear that you want and keep it there.

Pros of auto tranny off-road:

1. True automatics make up for lack of crawl ratio with the torque converter's torque multiplication...such as going up a hill.

2. Left foot free allows for pedals manipulation of both gas and brake over a big boulder...kinda make up for above.

3. Automatics allow for more appreciation of nature and terrain (thus, allowing you to take a better line) because you have less to worry about.

As modern automatics are getting better and better everyday, the advantages of manual tranny off-road are academic more than practical.

Way off topic but, does the prius have this feature where you "tap" the signal stalk up or down and it blinks the turn signal for you approximately 3 times and stops? When I say tap, I mean you push it either up or down as if you are going to signal, but don't push it all the way so that it clicks into place.

I noticed this feature on a rental Camry, and found it pretty cool for when you just want to signal a lane change w/o heavy traffic around you.

Nope. I think that is a 2012-2013 thing for Hondas and Toyotas. 2010 models such as my Prius does not have this. (Of course, BMWs have had it forever!) But, one nice thing about my Prius is that it has auto UP and DOWN windows all around, not just driver's. Toyota went crazy with auto windows in 2010 on most of their cars!

 

[Whiplash Willy]

Fair enough. The connection of driver to machine. However, have you driven an automanual that is done right, such as DSG (in VW) or any other dual-clutch automanual? (Ford's dual clutch tranny in their cars suck to no end!) The connection is all there except for no clutch pedal. There is no torque converter. Shift action is super smooth and immediate. The car goes as if you're driving a manual...no "creep" and plenty of rollbacks on hills. And if you're ever in traffic, then it is far less demanding! And yeah, like a manual, you do need to replace the clutch...but far less frequent because the automated clutch exhibits less wear than human-abused clutches.

I drove a 2011 Jetta TDI with the DSG for over a year. While the transmission was an amazing feat of engineering, and shifted extremely fast (Faster then an F1 Transmission I have read) there are some problems with them. They are expensive and complex. US VW Dealers wont' even open them if there is a problem, they will just swap in a $4k refurbished unit from Germany. Also, even though it shifts fast, the shift points are for efficiency, and are terrible. It would always put you in 6th gear, even when cruising at 35mph! Then if you ever wanted to accelerate, you had to really step on it to downshift, and accelerate, which was awkward, then it would immediately go back into 6th. You could put it into S mode, but those shift points held onto the gears way too long. You could put into manual shift mode, but it's response to changing the gear was delayed and awkward. It took more effort fighting the DSG for the correct gear in a normal driving situation, then shifting a MT yourself. All of that automatic back and fourth shifting couldn't be good for the wear on the DSG as well. At 10k miles it was already developing weird issues, that the dealer could never figure out, and it's horrible shift points drove me crazy enough to trade it in on a 6MT TDI Golf. After dealing with DSGs and CVTs, I am happy to be driving a normal auto transmission again. However I do prefer picking my own shift points with a Manual Transmission (Preferably one without a DMF.....)

 

[Thai]

I drove a 2011 Jetta TDI with the DSG for over a year. While the transmission was an amazing feat of engineering, and shifted extremely fast (Faster then an F1 Transmission I have read) there are some problems with them. They are expensive and complex. US VW Dealers wont' even open them if there is a problem, they will just swap in a $4k refurbished unit from Germany. Also, even though it shifts fast, the shift points are for efficiency, and are terrible. It would always put you in 6th gear, even when cruising at 35mph! Then if you ever wanted to accelerate, you had to really step on it to downshift, and accelerate, which was awkward, then it would immediately go back into 6th. You could put it into S mode, but those shift points held onto the gears way too long. You could put into manual shift mode, but it's response to changing the gear was delayed and awkward. It took more effort fighting the DSG for the correct gear in normal driving situation, then shifting your gears yourself. All of that automatic back and fourth shifting couldn't be good for the wear on the DSG as well. At 10k miles it was already developing weird issues, that the dealer could never figure out, and it's horrible shift points drove me crazy enough to trade it in on a 6MT TDI Golf. After dealing with DSGs and CVTs, I am happy to be driving a normal auto transmission again. However I do prefer picking my own shift points with a Manual Transmission (Preferably one without a DMF.....)

Yeah, but then again VW has never been a model of reliability. Dual-clutch does have that issue with guessing the next gear when you're at low speed and slamming on the gas pedal...inherently so if you understand the dual-clutch model design. This is why single-clutch automated transmission is still preferred by some (including me). The best thing is to control it manually, as you would a manual transmission. My old BMW M3's SMG (single clutch) automated shifting was mainly for traffic conditions where I got tired of shifting...otherwise, I would do it manually.

Nothing is perfect out there, but automanual trannies are improving greatly with every cycle...smoother and smarter.

Do you REALLY want to shift an 8-speed manual?!! Now, before anyone cry foul, the 6-7-8-10? speed gearing is needed to preserve great acceleration and great fuel economy. These two dichotomies are hard to coexist.

 

[JB.]

Fair enough. The connection of driver to machine. However, have you driven an automanual that is done right, such as DSG (in VW) or any other dual-clutch automanual? (Ford's dual clutch tranny in their cars suck to no end!) The connection is all there except for no clutch pedal. There is no torque converter. Shift action is super smooth and immediate. The car goes as if you're driving a manual...no "creep" and plenty of rollbacks on hills. And if you're ever in traffic, then it is far less demanding! And yeah, like a manual, you do need to replace the clutch...but far less frequent because the automated clutch exhibits less wear than human-abused clutches.

Can this type of transmission hold a gear and prevent a shift in either direction?

If not, it's nowhere close to being a replacement for a manual.

 

[Thai]

Can this type of transmission hold a gear and prevent a shift in either direction?

If not, it's nowhere close to being a replacement for a manual.

Most of the higher end automanual allow you to bounce off the redline all you want. The only time that it goes automatic is in selecting 1st gear when you come to a stop. That was how my BMW SMG transmission is like.

Now, with modern AUTOMATICS (with torque converters), you can also bounce off the redline...and they are very intuitive.

 

[JB.]

Most of the higher end automanual allow you to bounce off the redline all you want. The only time that it goes automatic is in selecting 1st gear when you come to a stop. That was how my BMW SMG transmission is like.

Now, with modern AUTOMATICS (with torque converters), you can also bounce off the redline...and they are very intuitive.

So, just to clarify, if you're in 3rd gear at 2000 RPM, is there a way to prevent a downshift if you stomp on the gas?

 

[Thai]

So, just to clarify, if you're in 3rd gear at 2000 RPM, is there a way to prevent a downshift if you stomp on the gas?

I can't say 100% about the newer automanuals, but on my BMW SMG, I can keep 3rd gear (at 2000) forever no matter if I stomp on the gas pedal or not. The ONLY time that it will downshift is when I stop or going really slow. In other words, it will not let you harm the engine by doing something stupid.

 

[JB.]

Interesting, thanks.

 

[grey_ghost]

You know what...i like all the modern features! ...So, easy to approach a car and just get in and drive. When i am done, i just get out, touch the door handle and walk away...

Agree & disagree... I had a top of the line sedan 2 cars ago, Japanese, with pretty much every luxury you could have. I even had those cool door handles you barely touch to lock the car & set the alarm... But then one day the drivers door handle quit responding to the touch.
Guess how much the dealer charged to replace that one fancy door handle?
$700 !!!
Needless to say I've backed off from buying that much technology

I even keep a pre-GPS navigating device in my glove box; it's called a paper "map".

 

[grey_ghost]

No but seriously I think the point some of you are dancing around is the ability of technology to "dumb" us down. A great example is the Asiana air crash last weekend in SF. That airplane had ILS glide slope, localizer, auto-throttle, auto flight control, etc.
The TSA investigation is not yet complete but it has shown an air speed way below touchdown speed and they're leaning toward pilot error.
You have to wonder if pilots had better flying skill in something like an old DC-3 where they had to have their hands on the controls non-stop from hangar-to-hangar....

 

[helo-mech]

I even keep a pre-GPS navigating device in my glove box; it's called a paper "map".

I grab a map of every state I go through to keep in the truck. I figure when the Zombies attack and the Machines take over the net, you better have a way of traversing the land with some idea of where you are going.

I don't really think that will happen, but I agree with you on the map. I keep the maps and a compass in mine at all times.

 

[Thai]

Agree & disagree... I had a top of the line sedan 2 cars ago, Japanese, with pretty much every luxury you could have. I even had those cool door handles you barely touch to lock the car & set the alarm... But then one day the drivers door handle quit responding to the touch.
Guess how much the dealer charged to replace that one fancy door handle?
$700 !!!
Needless to say I've backed off from buying that much technology

I even keep a pre-GPS navigating device in my glove box; it's called a paper "map".

But, why did you buy that luxury car in the first place? Luxury and convenience, right? Yes, things can go wrong with any generation of cars. It is like earlier when people want carburetors back...well, people want carbs back but still want ultra efficiency. You can't have both ways.

It is not like old cars were reliable either. Modern technology have greatly improve reliability and durability thru better designs and better technology! You change oil less often...how much money is that saved? Didn't old engines used to leak and eat up oil? You change transmission oil much less often (sometimes never in an average car's life)...how much is that saved? $700 to cover your door handle?

Another example? My Prius will never need a starter, probably never need brake pads until 150-200k miles if ever, and proabably never needs transmission fluid changed until I trade it in. It really only needs oil changes every 10k miles, tire rotations, and new windshield wipers for the (average)life of it. Can a 1960 Chevy do that? You want to compare costs of ownership? Want to compare gas mileage b/w old and new while still being faster than any old junker? Even with new door handles all around, a modern car will come out way ahead!

No but seriously I think the point some of you are dancing around is the ability of technology to "dumb" us down. A great example is the Asiana air crash last weekend in SF. That airplane had ILS glide slope, localizer, auto-throttle, auto flight control, etc.
The TSA investigation is not yet complete but it has shown an air speed way below touchdown speed and they're leaning toward pilot error.
You have to wonder if pilots had better flying skill in something like an old DC-3 where they had to have their hands on the controls non-stop from hangar-to-hangar....

Did airplanes not crash before auto-pilots? How many lives have been saved with the current techs in airplanes? In the old days, how many stories did we hear about airplanes colliding in midair or crash due to bad navigating or loss at sea etc.? That is OK? But, this one Asiana crash is the pinnacle of technology failure and brainless pilots? How many families have landed safely in the past 24 hours thanks to technology and competent pilots?

Can technology cover every possible idiocy caused by man? No. Just like, can car technology save every life due to drunk driving or sleepiness? No. But, does that mean that once in a while, something bad happens and we blame it on technology and how it has eroded our brain instead of ONE (or four in Asiana's crash) man's idiocy?

Not sure about you, but I rather fly today than 50 or 100 years ago! How about you?

I grab a map of every state I go through to keep in the truck. I figure when the Zombies attack and the Machines take over the net, you better have a way of traversing the land with some idea of where you are going.

I don't really think that will happen, but I agree with you on the map. I keep the maps and a compass in mine at all times.

True...but in what? A 4runner? I would worry about running out of gas and ammo before crossing state line! I will go in any direction AWAY from the zombies! That is my compass. And if it is the Machines like Terminator movies, then yeah, we're screwed no matter what! Underground is where I need to be. The Machines can easily make other machines with huge magnets to confuse compass.

In the meantime, my Google Maps on my Galaxy Note 2 is far far more accurate and up to date than any paper maps (or in-car navigation system)!

 

[TRDCal]

Fair enough. The connection of driver to machine. However, have you driven an automanual that is done right, such as DSG (in VW) or any other dual-clutch automanual? (Ford's dual clutch tranny in their cars suck to no end!) The connection is all there except for no clutch pedal. There is no torque converter.

Can't say I driven a car with a fancy transmission. I'm intrigued that there is no torque converter. So is it just like a solenoid that actuates the clutch instead of your foot? Can if function like a full auto, just put her in drive and go? Are the internals of the trans like an auto or more like a manual? Would it take ATF or gear oil? LOL

Sorry for the questions, just trying to wrap my head around this.

Out of curiosity, do you mean you rather drive a manual transmission even when out wheeling, or just generally speaking? Granted I am not well versed in off-road driving whatsoever, so please take this with a grain of salt, but I don't see any benefits of having a manual transmission in those instances?

I loved driving a manual transmission vehicle when I was younger, I wouldn't have it any other way.

Yah I was just talking generally daily driving. I've never actually wheeled in a standard truck so I can't comment there. Actually I'll admit that my 4runner is my first 4x4 and when I go off the beaten path I'm of happy its automatic cause I'm so dam focused on other things lol. As you said tho, I'm young and I enjoy it. Altho my mom is 57 and she drives a manual 200km 5 days a week, still loves it.