6th gen coming 2022

[Mikey2020]

All the rumors I'm reading say V6 TT with CVT/hybrid and normally aspirated 3.5v6 with CVT/hybrid as the only option for the Land Cruiser. I'm honestly not sure what to think of that. Maybe a CVT works great combined with a hybrid. My bet would be that there would also be a non-hybrid with a standard 10 speed auto at least for the Tundra.

I think the 4runner will also almost certainly have a hybrid option if those two have it. I've yet to drive a CVT I like, but maybe it's okay if it's done right. I don't think it's impossible to have a great CVT.

Is there any reason to have a 2 speed transfer case if the CVT has a 10:1 equivalent low gearing option? Or the electric drive has 800lb/ft? Maybe the transfer case goes away?

Blech, cvts kinda stink. I feel like 8-10 years ago, everyone was trying them out, only to realize that the consumers hated them, and then we shifted back to traditional transmissions, just with a crap ton of gears. Maybe part of it is marketing too. We have 8 speeds! We have 10 speeds! Etc... Can't really market that with a cvt. I had a Subaru with a cvt, it was meh. Not bad, not good, just meh.

Really really hope that a cvt isn't the 4runner and/or Land cruiser.

 

[bamma]

My reliability issue is probably as important in my own driveway as anywhere. Broken down cars are a pain in the ass. I don't like the stress and frustration of leaving my car for work even if it is warranty work and I'm only out the cost of an UBER for a few days. The value of not having to think about it is hard to quantify, but it's very real. It becomes a lot more important when you've also driven some cars with really bad reliability.

I love the idea of a 70 series, but I kinda go back and forth on whether I'd actually buy one. I don't drive an 80 series for a lot of reasons. Most of those also would apply to an LC70. So... I like to say I'd buy one, but I don't know if I actually would unless it came with the 1VD-FTV. Then probably. But I'd also still rather have the 1VD or a modern replacement in a 4Runner or GX.

I like the 70 Series, but they are not safe. Hell, they barely got airbag in the 70 series pickup in AUS due to lobbying from miners. The 200 series is the strongest vehicle Toyota has ever built (Toyota's words, not mine). And the crash testing that ANCAP did shows how safe it is.

There is no chance that Toyota brings a SFA back to the U.S. market. It is a pipe dream. I'd love a redo of the 80 series though. It was truly an amazing rig. IMO, Toyota had a miss with the FJ Cruiser. I wanted one until I drove one. Bad visibility was the biggest issue. I think Toyota should bring back a wide/long wb version of the FJ40 to compete with the Jeep. Again, a pipe dream, but Jeep, with its known decline in reliability (based on documented defects), has continued year over year increases in sales. There is no one to compete with them. I like the 4R better, but it is a completely different rig...

With TNGA, I do believe that there is a good change the Tundra and LC will share the same frame, with the Tundra getting advances/strength from the shared frame design. The question is, will there even be a 300 series LC at all in the U.S. Many rumors state that only the LX will continue in the U.S.A., similar to what they have already done in Canada. uke:

I don't love the idea of a twin turbo, but it has been reliable so far is the LS 500/LC Coupe. I'm sure Toyota does major testing before a switch. But I love the performance of the 5.7, and they have been very good motors.

I currently have two 5th Gens (2012 and 2020) and have had two 200 series (2011 and 2016) and would take the LC any day of the week. They are just solid rigs. Thankfully for my pocketbook, my wife prefers the 4Runner.

 

[Mikey2020]

I'm not so sure about Toyota putting a turbo in the 6Gen 4Runner. A couple years ago there was much ado about the new Honda Accord going to a 4 cylinder turbo and dropping the V6 whereas the new Camry that came out at about the same time stayed with the V6. At that time they appeared to be on the road to keeping everything naturally aspirated.

It makes sense to go with fewer cylinders and a larger displacement since the parasitic losses are less. The materials technology is there to make turbocharged engines last. I mean Toyota won the 24 hours of Le Mans with a V6 Turbo. They can make a durable 4 cylinder turbo engine that would work well in an SUV.

A turbo 4cylinder in the 4runner would likely be underpowered. Let's hope it doesn't happen.

The Highlander has a 3.5 L V6, and has similar power numbers to the current 4.0L in the 4runner (295 hp 263 lbft torque), tho it is coupled to a 8speed. Amazingly, the tacomas power numbers are less than the Highlander, which is insane to me, and an example of Toyota not catering to thier customers.

I really want something better in the 4runner. The new tundra power train would likely take care of it.

 

[Mikey2020]

Or the drivetrain for the new Rav4 Prime, which is probably going to be awesome... in a Rav4.

I dunno, maybe it would be a good power train in the runner?

I'm not a rock crawler type, I'll drive fire roads and stuff like that, never gonna hit the Rubicon tho. Just not my thing, so quickness is more important to me than low gearing and such.

Electric cars are very good at getting a car going from a standstill in a hurry.

 

[RichinRidgewood]

A turbo 4cylinder in the 4runner would likely be underpowered. Let's hope it doesn't happen.

Probably not and let's hope it does happen.

It's not much of a battle to exceed current v6 hp and torque values with a 4T PLUS using a 4 cylinder would leave room for more front suspension travel and a better turning radius. It would also reduce weight by maybe 200 or 300 pounds as well.

Honda Accord 2.0 T 4cyl
252 @ 6500 rpm 273 lb-ft @ 1500 - 4000

Honda Civic R-Type 2.0 T 4cyl
306 @ 6500 rpm 295 lb-ft @ 2500-4500 rpm

GM Silverado 2.7-liter T 4cyl
310 hp @ 5600 rpm 348 lb-ft of torque @ 1500 rpm

Toyota 4Runner v6 NA
270 hp @ 5600 rpm; 278 lb.-ft. @ 4400 rpm

 

[SpeedyKevin]

I'm not so sure about Toyota putting a turbo in the 6Gen 4Runner. A couple years ago there was much ado about the new Honda Accord going to a 4 cylinder turbo and dropping the V6 whereas the new Camry that came out at about the same time stayed with the V6. At that time they appeared to be on the road to keeping everything naturally aspirated.

It makes sense to go with fewer cylinders and a larger displacement since the parasitic losses are less. The materials technology is there to make turbocharged engines last. I mean Toyota won the 24 hours of Le Mans with a V6 Turbo. They can make a durable 4 cylinder turbo engine that would work well in an SUV.

Won with no real competition... but in the defense of the turbo, Porsche dominated a few years with their V4 Turbo hybrid!

 

[RichinRidgewood]

Won with no real competition... but in the defense of the turbo, Porsche dominated a few years with their V4 Turbo hybrid!

Audi did a nice job before Porsche too. (I would never buy an Audi and I would only own a Porsche 911 as a second car - maybe)

 

[Jetboy]

Toyota's CVT is different from most others. It's a 2 speed direct shift CVT. So it has a much lower starting gear and can transfer a lot more torque. The result is a lot less of the rubber band feeling you get in something like a Nissan CVT. However... I'm still kinda skeptical it'll work well in a bigger truck.

I'm not sold on a 4cyl turbo - but I think it has potential at least. If it's sized appropriately and tuned appropriately. They often have pretty good low rpm power (better low rpm torque). But if it's a hybrid - that doesn't really matter. The electric drive will provide all the low speed power. The engine is going to be designed to provide peak efficiency at cruising speed. Everything else is handled on the electrical side of things. That seems to favor normally aspirated engines. The problem with turbo engines is that you can't run them lean. Managing EGTs and optimal low output AFRs is something that's still not easy to solve. The lexus NX200t is underwhelming in real life as well. It's probably the tune - but it does not feel at all peppy.

It's unlikely to save much weight. The current v6 is only 359lbs. The Toyota 2.0 turbo weights around 330lbs. So it's 30 lbs difference between them. Not much difference. Both are kinda heavy beasts.

The engine I'd really love to see something like the 2UR (5.0L v8 with atkinsons cycle) in the 4Runner. Maybe even re-worked with a longer stroke and smaller bore to 350hp and 400lb/ft and lower redline. I'd bet it could be tuned to get better mileage than the 1GR and much better power delivery. All indications say the v8 is going away and v6's are the only option we'll see.

 

[Mikey2020]

Probably not and let's hope it does happen.

It's not much of a battle to exceed current v6 hp and torque values with a 4T PLUS using a 4 cylinder would leave room for more front suspension travel and a better turning radius. It would also reduce weight by maybe 200 or 300 pounds as well.

Honda Accord 2.0 T 4cyl
252 @ 6500 rpm 273 lb-ft @ 1500 - 4000

Honda Civic R-Type 2.0 T 4cyl
306 @ 6500 rpm 295 lb-ft @ 2500-4500 rpm

GM Silverado 2.7-liter T 4cyl
310 hp @ 5600 rpm 348 lb-ft of torque @ 1500 rpm

Toyota 4Runner v6 NA
270 hp @ 5600 rpm; 278 lb.-ft. @ 4400 rpm

Yup, all good points. Current engine not a high bar to reach.

 

[4powells]

I think how well the bronco does when it goes on sale this year will heavily influence what happens with the 4Runner. I think if the bronco does really well the 4Runner will just be a mild upgrade.

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk

 

[RichinRidgewood]

Toyota's CVT is different from most others. It's a 2 speed direct shift CVT. So it has a much lower starting gear and can transfer a lot more torque. The result is a lot less of the rubber band feeling you get in something like a Nissan CVT. However... I'm still kinda skeptical it'll work well in a bigger truck.

I'm not sold on a 4cyl turbo - but I think it has potential at least. If it's sized appropriately and tuned appropriately. They often have pretty good low rpm power (better low rpm torque). But if it's a hybrid - that doesn't really matter. The electric drive will provide all the low speed power. The engine is going to be designed to provide peak efficiency at cruising speed. Everything else is handled on the electrical side of things. That seems to favor normally aspirated engines. The problem with turbo engines is that you can't run them lean. Managing EGTs and optimal low output AFRs is something that's still not easy to solve. The lexus NX200t is underwhelming in real life as well. It's probably the tune - but it does not feel at all peppy.

It's unlikely to save much weight. The current v6 is only 359lbs. The Toyota 2.0 turbo weights around 330lbs. So it's 30 lbs difference between them. Not much difference. Both are kinda heavy beasts.

The engine I'd really love to see something like the 2UR (5.0L v8 with atkinsons cycle) in the 4Runner. Maybe even re-worked with a longer stroke and smaller bore to 350hp and 400lb/ft and lower redline. I'd bet it could be tuned to get better mileage than the 1GR and much better power delivery. All indications say the v8 is going away and v6's are the only option we'll see.

This is not an engine swap. It’s a redesign. The new engine trans and related body structure etc. would be an easy 200 lbs reduction with a marginally competent Design Manager.

 

[RichinRidgewood]

Belt drive is a horrible idea and I doubt Toyota would ignore the 4Runner market demographics and use it. Even Honda’s Odyssey mini van has gears.

 

[LandCruiser]

I want the 4Runner to stay a primitive BOF vehicle with a basic engine and transmission that's easy to modify with parts that are readily available. I would like an SR model like the Taco that doesn't have any unnecessary features or add-ons.

If it's some crossover, I'm not getting one.

If they make the Land Cruiser "more affordable" the way the 80 series was and do away with the 4Runner, or ruin it--I'm still okay. I just want one off-road focused BOF SUV in the line up.

The Sequoia is too fat, too useless.

And I really don't want some gimmicky turbo or hybrid assist engine, or a CVT or a sequential.

There are lots of cars and crossovers that already do that. Toyota is like Jeep, they have a product people buy because it's outdated technology.

The FJ Cruiser wasn't a terrible idea. It just was ugly and it had crap seating instead of being a proper 4 door.

If they want the 4Runner to be a crossover luxo barge with a turbo and a fancy transmission I'll just get a Cayenne.

 

[RichinRidgewood]

I want the 4Runner to stay a primitive BOF vehicle with a basic engine and transmission that's easy to modify with parts that are readily available. I would like an SR model like the Taco that doesn't have any unnecessary features or add-ons.

If it's some crossover, I'm not getting one.

If they make the Land Cruiser "more affordable" the way the 80 series was and do away with the 4Runner, or ruin it--I'm still okay. I just want one off-road focused BOF SUV in the line up.

The Sequoia is too fat, too useless.

And I really don't want some gimmicky turbo or hybrid assist engine, or a CVT or a sequential.

There are lots of cars and crossovers that already do that. Toyota is like Jeep, they have a product people buy because it's outdated technology.

The FJ Cruiser wasn't a terrible idea. It just was ugly and it had crap seating instead of being a proper 4 door.

If they want the 4Runner to be a crossover luxo barge with a turbo and a fancy transmission I'll just get a Cayenne.

First gen 4Runner had a turbo 4 available.

 

[LandCruiser]

First gen 4Runner had a turbo 4 available.

Turbo engines are a Japanese thing.

Here in the US we can have V8s.

 

[VB.TRD.Pro]

Turbo engines are a Japanese thing.

Here in the US we can have V8s.

Is a V8 the best option though?

Turbo engines are not just a Japanese thing although they execute it well.

YouTube

Personally I'd like to see a V8tt option but that's unlikely. Going to guess that V6 Hybrid will be an option.

 

[LandCruiser]

Is a V8 the best option though?

Turbo engines are not just a Japanese thing although they execute it well.

YouTube

Personally I'd like to see a V8tt option but that's unlikely. Going to guess that V6 Hybrid will be an option.

I have a Macan with a 2.0L Turbo 4. It is a great engine in a crossover and probably the last engine I want in an SUV.

 

[NativeTexan]

I currently have two 5th Gens (2012 and 2020) and have had two 200 series (2011 and 2016) and would take the LC any day of the week. They are just solid rigs. Thankfully for my pocketbook, my wife prefers the 4Runner.

I sold my 2014 LC with 60k for $42k. It was mint and barely off-roaded. I bought my 2020 ORP for just a grand more.

While the build quality in the LC was solid, it’s size and everyday drive ability for work and kids was just not enjoyable. And then on the trail I was constantly evaluating getting pinstripes constantly.

So I kept my 62series and sold the 200. My wife even commented the other day that the ORP is like a modern version of the 62. Body style, drive, basics, etc. and she’s right.

2020 ORP
‘14 200
‘07 100 + ‘90 62 (still have this)
‘98 100
‘83 60

Going through this progression of vehicles and sizing and overall vehicle manner...it really did come around full circle. It just dropped down one model.

 

[bamma]

I sold my 2014 LC with 60k for $42k. It was mint and barely off-roaded. I bought my 2020 ORP for just a grand more.

While the build quality in the LC was solid, it’s size and everyday drive ability for work and kids was just not enjoyable. And then on the trail I was constantly evaluating getting pinstripes constantly.

So I kept my 62series and sold the 200. My wife even commented the other day that the ORP is like a modern version of the 62. Body style, drive, basics, etc. and she’s right.

2020 ORP
‘14 200
‘07 100 + ‘90 62 (still have this)
‘98 100
‘83 60

Going through this progression of vehicles and sizing and overall vehicle manner...it really did come around full circle. It just dropped down one model.

I have taken both off road and both do great. The LC is 2" wider than the 4R really an immaterial difference. I took my 11 LC off-roading a ton, and you can tell that the KDSS was built for the LC, tucked under the body (4runner kdss sticks out more on my friends OR) and performs well, and the power is amazing. It is a beast off-road. Just wish it cam stock with a bigger gas tank! Both are great rigs, but the LC is a leap above.

 

[TommyG]

Glad I was able to pick up a 2019 without the extra safety radar of the 2020 models.

Just wanted an old technology car that was solid.

Easy to get in and out of.
4.0L port injected V6 tuned for 400,000 miles.
Lots of aftermarket gear.
Lots of on-line support.

Eh...It's a beautiful thing.