700lb. Coil Spring

[comtn4x4]

Im currently on 700lb springs on an Icon CDCV setup and have about 230lb of extra weight hanging off the front axle. For 3" of lift I have only a few threads of preload. I just ordered a set of KING external ressie coilovers and shocks and paid Ben @ Filthy Motorsports to consult for a custom setup. He heavily recommended going down to a 650 spring with some preload vs 700 with very little preload. So im going to give that a shot

This is really interesting to me as well as all the varied feedback on how well different coils/struts work in different setups. The more I try different suspension setups on my rig and read about them here the more unclear the results of any suspension change seem to me. As well I start to understand why so many people have trouble getting the results they want as far as lift height and plushness of performance.

A question I have is how are you determining how different aspects of the additional load you have on your vehicle affects either the front, rear or whole vehicle suspension? For instance the front bumper and winch affect predominantly the front, and a rear bumper predominantly the rear. However, how do you consider a full set of skids, a full roof rack or sliders? Maybe I'm over thinking.
None the less, I have easily the same amount of weight (230 lb) affecting my front suspension as you. Originally when I added my bumper, winch and skids to my Toytec Ulitimate lift with a 650# coil I had to crank the pre load about 1.5" to get the height back to where it was. And consequently the ride went to crap. I lowered it slightly and it was improved but not great. Then later I got my current suspension setup. 700# coil with 2.5" Radflos with about 1" of threads showing below the pre load collar to run 2.5" lift. Now it runs very well and handles the extra weight quite well.
Again very interesting all the different results from seemingly similar situations

 

[SpeedyKevin]

This is really interesting to me as well as all the varied feedback on how well different coils/struts work in different setups. The more I try different suspension setups on my rig and read about them here the more unclear the results of any suspension change seem to me. As well I start to understand why so many people have trouble getting the results they want as far as lift height and plushness of performance.

A question I have is how are you determining how different aspects of the additional load you have on your vehicle affects either the front, rear or whole vehicle suspension? For instance the front bumper and winch affect predominantly the front, and a rear bumper predominantly the rear. However, how do you consider a full set of skids, a full roof rack or sliders? Maybe I'm over thinking.
None the less, I have easily the same amount of weight (230 lb) affecting my front suspension as you. Originally when I added my bumper, winch and skids to my Toytec Ulitimate lift with a 650# coil I had to crank the pre load about 1.5" to get the height back to where it was. And consequently the ride went to crap. I lowered it slightly and it was improved but not great. Then later I got my current suspension setup. 700# coil with 2.5" Radflos with about 1" of threads showing below the pre load collar to run 2.5" lift. Now it runs very well and handles the extra weight quite well.
Again very interesting all the different results from seemingly similar situations

I was talking to Ben at Filthy motorsports about this (Spring rates and load). It was a long technical conversation but he basically preferred running the lowest spring rate as you could and tuning the shock for the weight. Will probably try this route with my new shocks.

 

[Uni1brow]

How much preload you need to get 700# coil to 2.5- 3inch lift on kings

 

[rayofsi]

getting ready to move up to 700 lb springs.
i have ads shocks and i'm at max recommended settings on the collars.
currently have 650 lb springs and extra 1/4" spacer on drivers side

have proline 4x4 bumper - no winch
full aluminum skids under, demello sliders, prinsu rack, urd/whipple super charger and a group 34 battery. various light bars. 650 not enough for me.

 

[Xtremluck]

This is really interesting to me as well as all the varied feedback on how well different coils/struts work in different setups. The more I try different suspension setups on my rig and read about them here the more unclear the results of any suspension change seem to me. As well I start to understand why so many people have trouble getting the results they want as far as lift height and plushness of performance.

A question I have is how are you determining how different aspects of the additional load you have on your vehicle affects either the front, rear or whole vehicle suspension? For instance the front bumper and winch affect predominantly the front, and a rear bumper predominantly the rear. However, how do you consider a full set of skids, a full roof rack or sliders? Maybe I'm over thinking.
None the less, I have easily the same amount of weight (230 lb) affecting my front suspension as you. Originally when I added my bumper, winch and skids to my Toytec Ulitimate lift with a 650# coil I had to crank the pre load about 1.5" to get the height back to where it was. And consequently the ride went to crap. I lowered it slightly and it was improved but not great. Then later I got my current suspension setup. 700# coil with 2.5" Radflos with about 1" of threads showing below the pre load collar to run 2.5" lift. Now it runs very well and handles the extra weight quite well.
Again very interesting all the different results from seemingly similar situations

I'm a bit skeptical as well since I felt moving from 650 -> 700 springs on my Icon CDCV setup was a big improvement. However, I need to trust the guy who works with off road suspensions everyday so thought I would give it a shot. I just got the tracking number for my shocks & coilovers so I'm hoping to install it Saturday and will report back.

 

[MaddoxPics]

For you all talking about this. With a Lo Pro Bumper from C4, including winch and light bar, 650 was perfect. However switching over to their Hybrid Bumper, along with a roof rack and skid setup, 700 was the way to go.

I feel just about all of you talking will want to go 700. Wouldn't hurt to bump up the nitrogen in your shocks either. Believe most come running 150 from manufacturer, I'm going to bump mine up to about 175 and see how that goes. Though King did recommend 200 with no 700lb coil.

I'm sure a legit shock building company could fine tune these for our specific builds, but I don't have the time to ship them off for a week or so as it's my daily driver.

 

[Xtremluck]

For you all talking about this. With a Lo Pro Bumper from C4, including winch and light bar, 650 was perfect. However switching over to their Hybrid Bumper, along with a roof rack and skid setup, 700 was the way to go.

I feel just about all of you talking will want to go 700. Wouldn't hurt to bump up the nitrogen in your shocks either. Believe most come running 150 from manufacturer, I'm going to bump mine up to about 175 and see how that goes. Though King did recommend 200 with no 700lb coil.

I'm sure a legit shock building company could fine tune these for our specific builds, but I don't have the time to ship them off for a week or so as it's my daily driver.

I hear you but I think if you want to maximize off road performance with our not so ideal IFS setup getting deep into the details is worth the investment. I learned a lot from my conversation with Ben [MENTION=106637]Filthy[/MENTION] and his softer spring argument made a lot of sense to me. Especially since I tend to prefer more slower moving technical trail riding.

For a point of reference this is where my 700lb Icon Coilovers are sitting with 230ish extra lbs hanging over my front axle. Alum winch bumper, winch, dual batteries, air compressor etc. it nets about 2.75” of lift over stock

Either way the proof is in the pudding. Look forward to field testing the softer setup over some rocks soon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Todd34]

I'm a bit skeptical as well since I felt moving from 650 -> 700 springs on my Icon CDCV setup was a big improvement. However, I need to trust the guy who works with off road suspensions everyday so thought I would give it a shot. I just got the tracking number for my shocks & coilovers so I'm hoping to install it Saturday and will report back.

Xtremluck,
Sorry to dig up an old thread but how did it work out? I'm trying to decide if I should bump up to the Icon 700's as well.

Todd

 

[Xtremluck]

Xtremluck,
Sorry to dig up an old thread but how did it work out? I'm trying to decide if I should bump up to the Icon 700's as well.

Todd

Sorry for the delayed response. 100% it was the right decision to go 650#. The ride quality offroad is immensely better vs 700# and static lift height at 2.5" per KING's recommendations was accomplished with minimal preload. Although one thing to think about is that KING shocks are very different than Icon when it comes to dampening. So that probably plays a pretty big role in ride quality as well

 

[Todd34]

Sorry for the delayed response. 100% it was the right decision to go 650#. The ride quality offroad is immensely better vs 700# and static lift height at 2.5" per KING's recommendations was accomplished with minimal preload. Although one thing to think about is that KING shocks are very different than Icon when it comes to dampening. So that probably plays a pretty big role in ride quality as well

Thanks for the update. I have Icons so I’ll keep that in mind. I think I’ll ride it out with the 650 for a bit and see how it goes.

 

[Jeremy556]

Thanks for the update. I have Icons so I’ll keep that in mind. I think I’ll ride it out with the 650 for a bit and see how it goes.

How much weight do you have above stock? How much preload are you running on the 650s?

Besides the higher spring rate, the Icon 700lb coils are also longer. If you have tons of preload on the 650s to support a lot of weight over stock, you will get better ride quality from the longer 700lb springs with less preload.

 

[Todd34]

How much weight do you have above stock? How much preload are you running on the 650s?

Besides the higher spring rate, the Icon 700lb coils are also longer. If you have tons of preload on the 650s to support a lot of weight over stock, you will get better ride quality from the longer 700lb springs with less preload.

I have a steel bumper (no winch), skid, rock sliders and a RTT. I'm at about 1.5" of preload on the passenger side and 1.75" on the driver side to even out the lean.

So, the 700lb coils are probably where I need to be. But I'd rather be a little soft than too stiff as I don't normally go ripping across the desert.

I have a dual swing bumper in the rear and went with Dobinson's C59-701V coils, but they were too tall and too stiff. I put the Icon coils back on while I waited for Dobinson's C59-327 coils to come in. The 327's just arrived so I'll add those tomorrow.

 

[BendRunner]

Did you end up putting on the 700lb springs?

 

[cumminsdieselfreak]

Did you end up putting on the 700lb springs?

I put 700lb Toytec coils on that build. It sagged with an ARB Summit and Warn Zeon 10k winch.

I have 700lb Elka coils now but haven't had time to order a bumper and winch yet.

 

[Lexington]

700 lbs springs is going to ride really rough i have a full bumper with a winch and steel skids and its still to much spring go with 650

I agree with this. I added a Shrockwork steel front bumper and a 10,000lb Warren Wench. My weight was about 140lb. Originally I had a 700lb Bilstein spring which Bilstein recommended and my nose sat too high. I replaced it with a 650lb spring. Now it sits level.

That said, other brand may use different type of steel which may make it sit a little lower. I will say that the Bilstein are a stiffer ride.

 

[mrblah]

i run 700lb front w/ a demello aluminum bumper, aluminum skids, winch, group 35 battery, lots of gussetting, suspension components, and a bunch of random bolt ons, and they ride a bit firm, but its perfect for me.

The 700lb w/ no preload and heavy duty dobinsons rear springs for a 2.5F/2R inch lift gave me a perfect amount of rake, and lift.

I could have gone with 650/ w some preload, and gotten the same results.

Don't forget the rear suspension is just as important, unless you want saggy ass syndrome.

 

[Finslayer83]

I'll take your 700's and raise you Dobinson 730's (C59-354).

I'm heavy with bull bar, skids, winch, etc..

Rides great.

 

[bigdaddy2021]

So I just added a Warn semi hidden bumper and 10k winch and it’s very obvious my full OME lift with heavy front springs isn’t up for the job. Would the 700lb King springs be a direct fit for my current lift?

I have WARN"s winch bumper insert and an M8000 winch - a similar setup, I'd say?

I have Dobinsons 150-200lb over springs and maintain a 2.5-3" lift. Works well.