A Hybrid 4Runner Would be a Clownish Attempt to Appeal to Greenies Who Can’t do Math

[rdruss]

I wouldn’t be surprised if Toyota avoids mass applications of turbos (a la other manufacturers) in favor of hybrids. As an example, the RAV4 Prime puts out 302 horsepower, but its 2.5 gas engine is good for only 177. So the electric bit adds about 125 horsepower, which is similar to a turbo. And an electric motor delivers its torque way down low where most people feel the difference. I’m no expert, so I may be overlooking something.

It's a little more complex than adding a turbo, but in todays world a turbo is just a crutch. Emissions is driving everything and all the manufacturers are looking toward "zero emissions" at some point and it will take more than a turbo to get to that. Toyota's fuel cell electric puts out water as an emission.

 

[nlau87]

I just hope they don't make an electric 4Runner like they did with the new Mustang and Hummer. If they do go electric, make it it's own line. Don't mess with the community!

 

[Muzzle of Bees]

Why would the average person care about ROI when purchasing a vehicle? That’s not how it works with 99% of the people. How many vehicles are sold each year where the buyer is immediately underwater on their loan and the value is moving lower than each of the monthly payments. They likely have a high payment on a long term and will have maintenance costs too. People are emotionally conditioned, not logically conditioned. If humans used logic when making their decisions the economy would slow immediately. That’s not how it works here.

 

[thennen]

Why would the average person care about ROI when purchasing a vehicle? That’s not how it works with 99% of the people. How many vehicles are sold each year where the buyer is immediately underwater on their loan and the value is moving lower than each of the monthly payments. They likely have a high payment on a long term and will have maintenance costs too. People are emotionally conditioned, not logically conditioned. If humans used logic when making their decisions the economy would slow immediately. That’s not how it works here.

Well, it doesn't matter to me because I drive my vehicles into the ground. Resale value doesn't come into play when you do that, at least in my case. ROI does (arguably) because of the plethora of miles driven. But based on what I've seen here and elsewhere, a 4Runner retains its value much better than most vehicles. So someone woule be 'less upside down' with a 4R versus many other vehicles. I know, I know - upside down is the worst place to be in a vehicle. But so many people go there. Many of the same people typically buy the house the qualify for rather than the house they can afford.

I differ with you on one point (but maybe we ultimately agree): If humans used logic when making their buying decisions, I think the economy would slow only for a short while. The eventual availability of disposable income, which would be spent on real STUFF instead of interest, would bring the economy higher.

 

[Montego Murph]

Why would the average person care about ROI when purchasing a vehicle?

When using terms like this, is the discussion limited to "getting a good price back when I decide to sell it" when saying "investment?"

Whenever I hear that phrase regarding vehicles, I wonder if one could factor in "using it as a tool to get a job done" as part of the investment. Sort of like "I invested in a cargo van, because it allowed me to start a house painting business and carry my tools to each job instead of asking for rides."

Just wondering

 

[Gecko]

The case for hybrids is less and less about MPG and more about the experience they provide. Do you realize that Toyota sells hybrids as a premium over their gas counterparts? There's a reason for that... they drive and behave better, are more reliable, and more desirable.

Toyota hybrids offer seamless operation in low speed driving, immediate power via electric motors when you need it, silent operation, and... oh yeah... great MPG. And with a 150k mile powertrain warranty. Those are things people are willing to pay a premium for - in spades. Toyota can barely keep hybrid models on their lots.

After spending time in our family's RAV4 hybrid as well as Camry hybrids, the Venza, the Lexus ES 300h and RX 450h, a hybrid 4Runner would be a great addition. And with Toyota's promise to have a hybrid model of every vehicle by 2025, it's not that far off.

 

[gaber6]

I believe in the NIO battery swap idea as well. They have charging ports like normal, but also can be a BAAS lease model where you don't own the battery and it'll swap a new one in five minutes.
I think EV is here to stay as battery technology is changing. I imagine there are alternatives out there that are super efficient, but not released or manufactured yet.

 

[Sea_ledford]

Regarding overall timeline to swap to EV in general, my bother works at an oil and gas exploration company in Houston, and during the big drop in oil prices earlier in the year, they had to do some serious thinking about the future of oil and gas.

The time line is something like this (as I remember it from a phone conversation 6 months ago):
The exploration they are doing now, will not be developed into production for 5-7 years.

Anything they turn to production must be profitable for 25-30 years for it to be a financially worthwhile venture.

If development of electric technology proceeds as expected (ie no new massively game changing tech, or walls that stop development), they expect electric will be more efficient and cost effective than gas in 35-40 years. That is INCLUDING the massive advantage gas has with an established and widely available delivery infrastructure. So that is the longest oil and gas will be dominant, and probably the last several years of that it'll pretty much be a toss up between the two.

So if oil and gas prices don't come up in the next couple years, the exploration won't happen, new fields won't be developed, gas prices will go up, and it'll drive the timeline toward electric faster.

If governments or private industry put a lot of money into developing the electric infrastructure, it'll also shift the time line toward electric.

So enjoy your ICE while they are around. I imagine getting a non-EV 2040 Gen 6 4runner will be as easy as getting a current one with a stick shift.

Also, watch The Long Way Up. Ewan McGregor and his buddy drive EV Harley's on the Pan American from Argentina to Los Angeles. With two Rivian EV trucks as support. It's pretty interesting.