A possible solution to leaking axle seals

[1985taylor1925]

To clarify, YOU assume those miles to be "leaking miles".

I can picture you at your keyboard, just steaming. You're not even reading my posts correctly. I have 33,937 miles since my seal job, with ZERO LEAKS as of the last time I looked. Like I said, I'll check again just for you, and I'll even post a picture in THIS thread.

Im sitting at my keyboard steaming as well. But not because Im mad. I just need to steam some water for my tea.

Op, after reading this thread, heres my question; can one actually be a Dr. of coffee? Im not so sure. And what does that mean exactly. Does it mean youre like an expert at growing and harvesting it? Or that you just know how to make an amazing cup of java? Or maybe both. Im just so confused right now and need some sort of explaination. . .

 

[quicksilvr]

In for the Coffee drama.....

opcorn:

 

[Drcoffee]

In for the Coffee drama.....

opcorn:

There's nothing more to see here. Move along little lady

 

[xcmtb83]

In an effort to add some amount of Poka-yoke to this procedure for the average mechanic I see a market for wider retainers void of the large chamfer on one side. This would require I.D. and O.D. grinding equipment. I am really curious what a shop capable of I.D./O.D grinding and heat treating would charge for...lets say 100 of them.

 

[Drcoffee]

In an effort to add some amount of Poka-yoke to this procedure for the average mechanic I see a market for wider retainers void of the large chamfer on one side. This would require I.D. and O.D. grinding equipment. I am really curious what a shop capable of I.D./O.D grinding and heat treating would charge for...lets say 100 of them.

IMO thats not necessary. The OEM retainer has plenty of real estate on the shoulder. You just need to get the seal onto the center of it.

 

[nyvram]

i dont like or dislike anyone on here..except maybe those who were laughing at me and my fuel door indicator fiasco...

anyway, i read both threads..because i just got this report from the dealer here:

RR axle seal leaking, recommend both sides $10 ea x2 80-90w $17 ea x 3, shoes $101, labor 6.5 hours $909

Yep, $1,000 to fix this on my poor little 280k mile 4runner.

soooo, it seems a perfect opportunity for me to try the MOD and add to the data points since i need to do this anyway.

any recommendations before bringing my car in? i'm probably not going to go with the dealer..if i print out this thread and show it to another competent mechanic..should i worry about anything?

will they laugh at me after i leave and throw the printed thread in the garbage and put the retainers on the normal way anyway?

i love my 4runner and don't want it to die from age so if i spend close to 1k on something, i'd like to do it right.

 

[Drcoffee]

any recommendations before bringing my car in? i'm probably not going to go with the dealer..if i print out this thread and show it to another competent mechanic..should i worry about anything?

The Absolute key to getting this right is installing the new seal and measuring where the lip makes contact BEFORE tearing down the axle assembly. If they make careful measurments based on the position of the NEW seal, they should be able to get the new retainer dead center in the seal. I used the edge of the polished part of the axle as a reference. Use only OEM parts!

will they laugh at me after i leave and throw the printed thread in the garbage and put the retainers on the normal way anyway?

Who cares? You are paying them to do a job for you. I would suggest being there while they work on the truck. Ask them to show you the grease test and the axle before reinstalling it. They may just learn something in the process.

 

[01thunder]

i don't know if it was mentioned here as i didn't read all of the thread but if the the retainer was wider, this wouldn't happen.

 

[Drcoffee]

i don't know if it was mentioned here as i didn't read all of the thread but if the the retainer was wider, this wouldn't happen.

Its not a matter of width. This retainer works fine on non-ABS trucks. The axle housing where the retain is positioned is too shallow. There is only a few millimeters between the seal seating on the retainer and the retainer rubbing on the housing. This was a error in engineering design. Watch the video I posted. It should make sense in this regard.

 

[Parker1938]

Question from someone who hasn't done the repair job, yet, as I see this happening in the near future: Is the retainer held on by friction to the axle shaft and is that why a press is needed to remove and replace it? Also, what type of shop has the correct tools to do this?

 

[Drcoffee]

Update

Great news. No leakage. None!

Not even a acceptable amount . Cough cough.

Its been 22 months and 20,000 miles since the repair. You be the judge.

This thread is worthy of a sticky in the tech section IMHO.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Z41ZYnb940c" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[RonMAIDEN]

I have a Mitsubishi mechanic that used to sponsor my Eclipse back in the 90s handle all my 4Runner fixes I can't do and his biggest advice with the rear seals was to use nothing but. OEM seals and he replaced the originals at around 100k miles back in early 2005 and those lasted 8 years/80k miles so hopefully good to go for another long stretch. Cost me just under $600 including new rear shoes and drums.

 

[mike_m]

update

Just thought I'd chime in:

I too replaced my leaky rear axle seal using Dr. Coffee's method. It has been 14 months and 15k since I did the repair and have no leaks as well.

This method worked for me as well. Satisfied with the results.

Thanks

Mike M

 

[Drcoffee]

I have a Mitsubishi mechanic that used to sponsor my Eclipse back in the 90s handle all my 4Runner fixes I can't do and his biggest advice with the rear seals was to use nothing but. OEM seals and he replaced the originals at around 100k miles back in early 2005 and those lasted 8 years/80k miles so hopefully good to go for another long stretch. Cost me just under $600 including new rear shoes and drums.

Ron,
Have you pulled your ABS sensor to see if its dry? For everyone who posts their success here, not one person has proven it. Its a quick check really and shouldn't take more than 30 minutes.

 

[JayRolla]

Its been about 16 months for me and over 15k miles and I have no leaks.

I installed just the new oem seal the stock way and still no leaks. Cost me $5.

 

[RC57]

Its been about 16 months for me and over 15k miles and I have no leaks.

I installed just the new oem seal the stock way and still no leaks. Cost me $5.

I'm not clear on what you did. You replaced only the seal, not the bearings? If so, then this was preventative maintenance and the old seals weren't leaking? Again if so, you've checked the ABS sensors and found them dry at 15K miles?

 

[RC57]

Ron,
Have you pulled your ABS sensor to see if its dry? For everyone who posts their success here, not one person has proven it. Its a quick check really and shouldn't take more than 30 minutes.

Same question to Ron. Takes me 5 minutes to check the ABS sensors now that I've done it a number of times. The first time I had the bearings and seals done, it was about 15k miles before oil started showing up on the brake pads. Oil was showing up on the ABS sensors in less than 1000 miles.

 

[JayRolla]

I'm not clear on what you did. You replaced only the seal, not the bearings? If so, then this was preventative maintenance and the old seals weren't leaking? Again if so, you've checked the ABS sensors and found them dry at 15K miles?

I just did the seal. The seal was blown out at about 200k miles. I was very low on cash. Pulled it all apart and the bearing seemed pretty solid. Installed the OEM $5 seal and I have not leaked since. But thats just inspecting with the drum off, I have not torn it back down. No need till I see it leaking again. If I had the money I would have replaced it all. I guess Im getting lucky so far.

 

[Drcoffee]

And that's very possible that just replacing the seal with a new OEM seal will solve your problem. Not all 4runner and Tacomas with ABS had leaking axle seals. But far too many do and have not been able to stop the leak. And for those who have to replace the wheel bearings and need to reinstall the retainers, this thread is for those people.

But you can never really know if its leaking without looking through the ABS sensor hole. if it were me, I would rather know in the comfort of my garage than on the roadside miles away from tools, especially if it was my child or wife driving it.

 

[sig12]

Thoughts?

I am in the process of replacing the seals and bearings in my 2002 2wd. Everything seems to be the same as the axle you show. I have pulled my axles and they appear to be identical, but I have not had a chance to clean them up yet. The left side was leaking but the right side had not come through the wheel bearing yet but the area where the ABS sensor was had oil all in it so it was a matter of time. My biggest worry is getting all the measurements correct and relayed to the shop who is going to press retainers on. I plan on doing the seal test with grease to confirm where the seal will sit on the retainer. Any other hints? My first time to pull the axles down. I would hate to do this multiple times.