A possible solution to leaking axle seals

[Drcoffee]

So after you take the measurement with grease, take a center punch and mark the axle both where it is now and at the distance you want it moved inboard. I used a cutting disc on my dremmel as you can see in the first post and took a picture pre and post, but the mark was pretty big. But if you tell the shop where you want it, they will mark it themselves. But making a mark yourself will give you peace of mind they placed it where you need it.

Be sure to install the new seal before making the measurement.

Essentially, flip the retainer and move it 1mm in from the factory location. If the bearing has been done before, then an accurate measurement is needed.

 

[sig12]

DrCoffee,

Thanks for the info. First time for bearings so we should be good. I will let you know how it turns out.

 

[10ac]

Thumbs Up!!!

Thanks for the thread!!! Should sticky this!! Great info and have already begun this repair.

 

[SAYWHAT]

seal observation

Have read dr coffee post on the seal location not being correct and can plainly see that he is correct on his seal not being where it belongs.Looking back to big fish all day post on replacing the seals and bearings with all the pictures you can see where his seal was riding on the spacer from the wear mark left by the seal contacting the spacer,about dead center where it belongs.I wonder if Toyota made a factory correction to this problem at some point in production and what year model 4runners were affected with improper seal or spacer placement?

 

[Drcoffee]

Have read dr coffee post on the seal location not being correct and can plainly see that he is correct on his seal not being where it belongs.Looking back to big fish all day post on replacing the seals and bearings with all the pictures you can see where his seal was riding on the spacer from the wear mark left by the seal contacting the spacer,about dead center where it belongs.I wonder if Toyota made a factory correction to this problem at some point in production and what year model 4runners were affected with improper seal or spacer placement?

Don't be misled by the old witness mark on the retainer. That mark in the center of the retainer isn't the oil seal mark. Its the dust lip mark. There should be two contact points from the seal. The outer is the dust seal and the inner is the oil seal mark. What's happening is the dust seal is riding where the oil seal should be. The oil seal lip is riding on the bevel. Its tough to imagine until you are holding the parts in your hands.

 

[Coveman]

Subscribed... and woo

JBTW, a mechanic friend did this job for a customer who drove his vehicle about 500 miles on vacation and the axle leaked. The customer (a lawyer) had the job re-done while on vacation and called my friend to let him know he was suing him. By the time the customer got back from vacation to my friend's shop the axle had leaked again. Crazy.

 

[SAYWHAT]

Thanks DR

A pictures worth a thousand words as they say!Too bad Toyota didn't make a modified seal to compensate for this,even a retainer with a shorter bevel would have helped.Guess the design engineers got baffled with the ABS vs. non ABS axle housings and seal placements.

 

[K-Tanz]

Just did this job installing everything the factory way and it leaks after a drive around the block. I don't particularly feel like pressing off and on new rings, but will if I have to and it seems to work.

My question is this; is it possible to install a small spacer (2mm?) inboard of the seal and then install the seal in or will this cause problems? Seems like this would achieve the same thing as moving the retainer inboard a bit and flipping the bevel. Thanks for the writeup!

 

[Drcoffee]

Just did this job installing everything the factory way and it leaks after a drive around the block. I don't particularly feel like pressing off and on new rings, but will if I have to and it seems to work.

My question is this; is it possible to install a small spacer (2mm?) inboard of the seal and then install the seal in or will this cause problems? Seems like this would achieve the same thing as moving the retainer inboard a bit and flipping the bevel. Thanks for the writeup!

The short answer is no. There's virtually zero room inboard of the retainer before you make contact with axle housing. To save money, you can cut off the inner retainer yourself with a dremmel and cutting disk and have a new one pressed on fairly cheaply. just dont cut too deep or you will scar the axle.

Welcome to the club BTW.

 

[mike_m]

I did my passenger side using Dr. Coffee's method 2 years ago and after 30k no leaks. I just did my drivers side last week using same method and no leaks after a couple of hundred miles. Method has worked for me. Good luck.

Mike M

 

[K-Tanz]

Looks like I am pulling the axles on my next day off...again. Depending on what a shop quotes me for the easy press work it may be a good excuse to buy a shop press. Thanks for the reply!

 

[K-Tanz]

Talked to a local diff shop about pressing my retainers on and the guy seemed to be familiar with at least moving the retainer more inboard. He said "I do these Toyotas all the time and you have to add a little gap between the inner ring and ABS ring with new seals for it to sit right".

Did you do the grease test by mocking up with the old retainer that was cut off? Obviously the final product would need to be confirmed as well.

 

[Drcoffee]

Talked to a local diff shop about pressing my retainers on and the guy seemed to be familiar with at least moving the retainer more inboard. He said "I do these Toyotas all the time and you have to add a little gap between the inner ring and ABS ring with new seals for it to sit right".

Did you do the grease test by mocking up with the old retainer that was cut off? Obviously the final product would need to be confirmed as well.

Its not a matter of adding a little gap. He is oversimplifying it, maybe for conversation sake but the abs ring should not be used as a point of measurement. You need to measure your own axle and tell him where you want it. Reversing the retainer gives you more space to seat the seal. Its a matter of millimeters to get this right. If you go to far, the retainer will grind into the housing. Not far enough, you will be leaking again.

 

[Drcoffee]

.While I applaud your effort to document this, the method seems very strange coming from someone who supports OEM engineering with such fervor. Toyota didn't screw this up, did they?

thanks again to the typical coolaid drinker for the personal attack. What does your comment have to do with anything in this topic? I have never ever said Toyota is infallable. I just shake my head with innane comments like this.

If you look back at the history of the axle setup, you will find the original variant DID NOT HAVE ABS. In order to save money Toyota retrofitted the non-ABS axle to a new housing. And it worked fine. But then in 2003 Toyota changed the seal to a better design and miscalculated the position of the seal/retainer. So the newer 4runners, the 4th gen did not suffer the same problem but Toyota was done with the 3rd gen and invested zero dollars to correct the problem of the pre 2003 vehicles. They just let the stealerships deal with the problem.

If you take a few seconds, do a google search of leaking axles. The search function here is feable, google does a better job. Its endless and sad how lovers of the 4runner have sold and walked away from the vehicle because of the money they invested to never fix their problem. But by all mean, attack me. A little known secret: I have built an alter to Toyota in my garage and pray to Toyota nightly at 9pm. All hail Toyota. All hail Toyota. (Sarcasm)

Friggin idiot! Let me just say this. I dont need the love and addoration of keyboard jockeys. I am an adult and gave up pleasing unimportant people still acting like they are in high school a very very long time ago.

I will however, treat you with the same respect you give me! And as I said before, if you dont agree with me PROVE ME WRONG or crawl back into you hole.

 

[K-Tanz]

Went to harbor freight and bought a press for $100 today and did the press work myself. 3mm of polish before the "threaded" part on the axle was the magic number which put the grease mark right in the middle of the retainer. Excited to have dry drums!

 

[Drcoffee]

Went to harbor freight and bought a press for $100 today and did the press work myself. 3mm of polish before the "threaded" part on the axle was the magic number which put the grease mark right in the middle of the retainer. Excited to have dry drums!

Have you checked to make sure your retainer isn't rubbing the axle housing?

 

[K-Tanz]

Have you checked to make sure your retainer isn't rubbing the axle housing?

I don't hear any rubbing and the operation is quite smooth without any grinding or rubbing noises. I don't see any marks on the retainer where it is hitting metal after spinning the axles a few times to ensure a good grease mark. I would imagine I would hear some noise if I was hitting the housing yes? Any good way to ensure I am not making contact with the housing?

 

[Drcoffee]

Any good way to ensure I am not making contact with the housing?

If its not rubbing now, even if it does while driving it will be minimal. I would not worry about it. The housing is softer metal and will self resolve in short order.

 

[Bigger_Is_Better]

How many miles are you up to now Dr.Coffee? I'm getting ready to do this and your theories make sense, especially with the pictures.

Thanks

 

[Drcoffee]

How many miles are you up to now Dr.Coffee? I'm getting ready to do this and your theories make sense, especially with the pictures.

Thanks

The truck has 189,000 miles. So just over 30,000 miles on this repair.