A sludgy problem

4RunnerChaos

New member
I did an oil change the other day and was noticing a pretty hefty buildup of sludge under my fill cap and from what I can see in the fill hole.

Well, what I'm looking for is information is on combatting this problem, what can I did the oil change with the Quaker state 10w30 full synthetic oil. Is it advised to use any additives or anything else I can do? Any suggestions or links to products I can use.
 
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There's your problem your using quakerstate. Use a synthetic oil for your next oil changes change it at 4k miles and just keep doing that with a quality filter no fram or cheepo filter
 
I did an oil change the other day and was noticing a pretty hefty buildup of sludge under my fill cap and from what I can see in the fill hole.

Well, what I'm looking for is information is on combatting this problem, what can I did the oil change with the Quaker state 10w30 full synthetic oil. Is it advised to use any additives or anything else I can do? Any suggestions or links to products I can use.

How often are you changing your oil? I too noticed a little sludge under the oil cap and started to put about a half a pint of sea foam in the crankcase about 50 miles before I change my oil. Seemed to clean it up a little bit.
 
I did an oil change the other day and was noticing a pretty hefty buildup of sludge under my fill cap and from what I can see in the fill hole.

Well, what I'm looking for is information is on combatting this problem, what can I did the oil change with the Quaker state 10w30 full synthetic oil. Is it advised to use any additives or anything else I can do? Any suggestions or links to products I can use.
use a more qulity, sludge protection specified type oil, the last 100 miles or so out some marvel mistory oil in the crank case to help clean it. then change your oil.

There's your problem your using quakerstate. Use a synthetic oil for your next oil changes change it at 4k miles and just keep doing that with a quality filter no fram or cheepo filter
Like joe said, use a quality filter. please stay away from fram, they are paper and cardboard crap, they break down after longer times and more miles on it.

How often are you changing your oil? I too noticed a little sludge under the oil cap and started to put about a half a pint of sea foam in the crankcase about 50 miles before I change my oil. Seemed to clean it up a little bit.
start changing it around 3k, run 4 fun, go a bit longer on your oil additive to help clean it better. 50 miles does not seem like very much.

you can also pull the valve cover to see how bad it really it then suck as much as you can out with a show vac. (Do not pick or blow at it) it could dislodge large chunks and block oil passages.

you guys got this. just steady persistent work and over time it will clean up.
 
A lot of short trips without the oil getting up to temp can cause it too.

What is your sludge color?

No proof QS oil (synthetic) is causing the problem.
 
Beware of miracles in cans, because there's no such thing.
Change the oil more often for a while. 3000 miles max.
There is a long sludge saga that I remember being on Expedition Portal (that I can't find now) where they concluded that the head castings for the engine had tiny cracks that allowed communication between coolant and oil, in the direction coolant to oil. The long, slow, addition of coolant to the oil is what did it in this case(their conclusion).
Others have stated that exclusive short trip driving, which is known to prevent the evaporation of water/coolant in the oil, has caused most of the big sludging issues we see. Also, the PCV valve must be working properly to help the engine burn off the nasties that reside in the oil.Crap! Oil Sludge - Expedition Portal
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/149446-crap-oil-sludge.html
 
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The previous oil change was a full synthetic oil change I did drive a bit longer than I probably should have without changing it. Before that It wasn't my truck haha.
Right now I'm using the Quaker state full synthetic oil with a Bosch "premium" oil filter. The sludge was more of the "chocolate chip" like sludge I've seen someone else describe it as.

I'm not trying to be mean here but if you're going to say one brand of something is bad, please include what you'd say would be a good a better alternative. Just a more constructive way of posting guys! And thanks for your input. Now my question is. What's a better oil to use? Because price doesn't always mean better quality.

And as for removing the crank case cover, is there any gaskets or hardware I would need before I start pulling stuff apart.?
 
Oil is oil, you're not driving a race car or a long-haul diesel. A synthetic will let you go longer between changes, but right now you don't want to go longer between changes. I'd use the bottom shelf house brand stuff, and start changing it every 2000 miles or so until it's cleaned up. Once you're clean you can think about moving to a superior brand of oil - the guys at BITOG are hot for Pennzoil yellow, for what that's worth. The filter is much more important - you're looking for good filter media and lots of it, and a reliable anti-drainback valve. NAPA Gold/Wix and the Mobil1 filters seem to be the ones that always score near the top in tests, I like to look up the part number for Tundra filters and use those because they're bigger. Toyota filters are good too, sometimes the guys at the dealership will give you a break on price if you buy a box.

Change the oil hot - get the motor to temp and leave it there for a bit, then turn it off and immediately drain the oil. You can add a little ATF or your favorite snake oil (Lucas, Seafoam, MMO, whatever) about 100 miles before you change it if you want to accelerate the process, but it's not necessary and I don't recommend it. What's more important are very frequent changes until your sludge is cleaned up, then regular changes on the factory schedule after that. And try not to take lots of short trips - every time your engine cools down, condensation builds in the crank case, and if you don't get the engine hot enough to burn that off the next time you drive, it'll stack up. Too much of that leads to sludging.

If you're going to pull your valve cover(s), you'll want new VC gaskets for sure, and probably spark plug gaskets too.
 
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I have to agree with an earlier response - QuakerState is your issue. ("The Q stands for questionable!")

I would recommend you go to synthetic and also replace one quart of oil with MMO (Marvel Mystery Oil). MMO will gradually help clean out your build up over time. Whatever you do, don't try and do some kind of engine flush because the gunk will loosen up and cause you even more issues.....
 
I agree with kidvermicious on pretty much everything except not recommending seafoam. You just aren't going to find a proper scientific study on the effectiveness of seafoam that wasn't done by someone making money on the conclusion, so all you will get is anecdotal evidence on either side. For my part, a couple guys I trust, and who didn't make any money off my buying into it have given me some compelling tales of seafoam making a big difference in recovering an engine. It isn't a magic bullet, and won't take you from sludge to pristine, or from seized to perfect (though one story from a moto restorer friend was of an engine so packed that he was going to scrap it rather than waste the time cleaning it, and the seafoam got it cleaned well enough to run and be restorable without a ton of work), but anything in there that will help to breakdown the sludge will help. Seafoam has been around forever, so I feel it's pretty safe and well understood. You can also put some ATF in there shortly before changing as it also has more detergents than engine oil.

I usually put some seafoam in a couple hundred miles before the oil change, and then like kid said, change the oil while HOT. If you are going to do that, be super careful not to burn yourself getting the plug out. I use a pneumatic ratchet to just spin it off without getting my hand where near it.

I think the seafoam/atf will help break up what sludge is there, and changing the oil hot will help to flush it all out. And kid is right, better to use the cheap stuff that you can afford to change every 2k or so rather than break the bank on syn and change it every 3-4k. IMO syn is for being lazy (which I am) and changing every 6-10k, or whatever the bottle says. I do alot of highway miles on my commute, and 6-10k is much nicer than every 3k, which is every 2 months or so.
 
I've tried Seafoam in the fuel twice, and each time I did I ended up burning a valve. Maybe it's safer in the oil, I dunno. I say play it safe and let the oil detergents do their job, but like Nelson says, all you're going to get is anecdotes and opinions.

He's smarter'n me, maybe you should listen to him anyway. :)
 
I agree with kidvermicious on pretty much everything except not recommending seafoam. You just aren't going to find a proper scientific study on the effectiveness of seafoam that wasn't done by someone making money on the conclusion, so all you will get is anecdotal evidence on either side. For my part, a couple guys I trust, and who didn't make any money off my buying into it have given me some compelling tales of seafoam making a big difference in recovering an engine. It isn't a magic bullet, and won't take you from sludge to pristine, or from seized to perfect (though one story from a moto restorer friend was of an engine so packed that he was going to scrap it rather than waste the time cleaning it, and the seafoam got it cleaned well enough to run and be restorable without a ton of work), but anything in there that will help to breakdown the sludge will help. Seafoam has been around forever, so I feel it's pretty safe and well understood. You can also put some ATF in there shortly before changing as it also has more detergents than engine oil.

I usually put some seafoam in a couple hundred miles before the oil change, and then like kid said, change the oil while HOT. If you are going to do that, be super careful not to burn yourself getting the plug out. I use a pneumatic ratchet to just spin it off without getting my hand where near it.

I think the seafoam/atf will help break up what sludge is there, and changing the oil hot will help to flush it all out. And kid is right, better to use the cheap stuff that you can afford to change every 2k or so rather than break the bank on syn and change it every 3-4k. IMO syn is for being lazy (which I am) and changing every 6-10k, or whatever the bottle says. I do alot of highway miles on my commute, and 6-10k is much nicer than every 3k, which is every 2 months or so.

Well, I've gone several decades without using Seafoam and have never lost an engine--and that's a LOT of engines. So I will continue without it.There is no doubt it will help break up the sludge; the concern is whether it breaks it up TOO well, and you end up clogging passages. KidV's more gradual approach appealed to me for this reason.

If you really want to clean it out, the old farmer recipe for sludged up tractors is half Diesel (the actual fuel oil, not lube FOR Diesel) and half ATF, and drive around like that at low RPM's for a few hours. It will either clean it or kill it. Tractor engines are more forgiving than a 5VZ-FE.

These are all opinions out of my rear end, since I only work on my own machines, and thus I've never seen sludge.

In normal use I use synthetic (usually SuperTech) at a 6500 to 7k OCI but I have Blackstone reports saying all is well and I could go even longer. Although I'm lazy, too, that's nine months for me and that's as far as I'm willing to go. What I save on oil I spend on NAPA/Wix Platinum oversized PL 41516 filters with all synthetic media. I think expensive synthetic is a waste in these engines. Expensive filters are not. Blackstone says the SuperTech/PL41516 combo works great @6500-7k OCI.
 
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If the oil quality doesn't matter I'm still gonna do the cheap synthetic oil as opposed to conventional and do it every 3k miles.
I would personally not want to put strange chemicals into my engine. Don't know why but it seems like a bad idea... Lol and if something does go catastrophically wrong. Well, I don't have the money for that.
So 3k oil changes with a napa filter P/N pl41516?
The oil filter I got I actually got at Walmart an from what the books were saying the Bosch filter was the best one I could find. I went to autozoneand advanced and lost faith in those companies because the best ones they had were only the second best Walmart carried...

And thank you guys for all the replies.
 
If the oil quality doesn't matter I'm still gonna do the cheap synthetic oil as opposed to conventional and do it every 3k miles.
I would personally not want to put strange chemicals into my engine. Don't know why but it seems like a bad idea... Lol and if something does go catastrophically wrong. Well, I don't have the money for that.
So 3k oil changes with a napa filter P/N pl41516?
The oil filter I got I actually got at Walmart an from what the books were saying the Bosch filter was the best one I could find. I went to autozoneand advanced and lost faith in those companies because the best ones they had were only the second best Walmart carried...

And thank you guys for all the replies.

Honestly, at 3k OCI, during your clean-out phase, I'd run the cheapest filter I could find. Cheap or expensive, they're going to load up and go into by-pass real quick. First change on synthetic I would do at ~1.5k then go to 2-3k max.

Here is a fun thread for you to look at: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/33135-sludge-monster.html#post280754

It's a minor tragedy the OP's pics are gone. You could have filled soup bowls with a ladle out of his cam area.
 
I've tried Seafoam in the fuel twice, and each time I did I ended up burning a valve. Maybe it's safer in the oil, I dunno. I say play it safe and let the oil detergents do their job, but like Nelson says, all you're going to get is anecdotes and opinions.

He's smarter'n me, maybe you should listen to him anyway. :)

That is true, you can cause problems by dislodging it all. I guess I have the opposite problem as the durk, I have used seafoam on multiple engines (not as many as he has gone through I'm sure) and seen improvement in all cases. But that's the way it goes when you are trading stories, we can both be right...

I've never heard of burning a valve from seafoam. I have loaded my motorcycle down with seafoam in an attempt to cure some dirty carbs, and haven't had any problems. I don't do that anymore though.

I still put it in before oil changes just to keep it clean. Running atf or synthetics will do it a bit slower. I have heard of the durk's idea of putting diesel fuel in there. It's a great solvent. I think I'll stick with seafoam though. Diesel sound a little bit too backwater-engineering.
 
Use Rotella T5. It's semi synthetic and diesel oil. While its cleaning you may notice oil consumption. So watch your oil level.

One of the best filters for the money is the Motorcraft FL400S. Found at Walmart. Along with the T5 10w30 rotella.
 
Apparently there are a few Tribologists on the board, or at least talk as if they have some actual knowledge on the subject. I think what we are hearing (Ie: derogatory comments about Quaker State) is hearsay, passed along with no factual experience to back it up.

I have studied Tribology extensively, since being knowledgeable on the subject helps me make informed decisions as to the appropriate lubricant to use in a high-stress engine or gearbox.

There are some differences between various motor oils, but any oil that meets API Specs, won't cause sludge unless it is left in an engine far too long. Even the very best GRP V Ester based oils will sludge, if they are left in an engine for far too long.

The OP stated that he just recently acquired the vehicle, so it's safe to say it was neglected by a previous owner(s).

Quaker State is just fine to use, it's made by Sopus, as is Pennzoil, and the Shell Rotella HDEO line of Motor Oil's.

The Fram orange can does have the filter media glued to fiber end caps. In demanding use it might not be the best option. In fact there are better options for everyday use. The Fram Ultra canister filter however is a very good filter; Synthetic filtering media backed by wire mesh for support.

OP, I'd pull a valve cover to see if you have a bad sludge problem or not, and go from there.
 
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Thank you for that link to the valve cover removal process.
And that's a great bit of information o2. Do you have any history with the high performance Bosch filters?
 

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