Airport Pat Down

[Thai]

America is simply starting to not resemble the land of the free anymore. I understand safety but how much more are we really safe when we are patting down a 5 year old boy. Body scans should be enough and I think what we have in place is good enough to make me feel secure.

I guess blood,urine and semen samples will be required next.

The crotch bomber...would the old very brief patdown found the crotch bomber??? The body scan would and so does the new more aggressive patdown. So, you rather have a ,rotch bomber blow up an airplane or damage enough to crash into a busy building?

As I understand it you either have to take the body scan or the pat down. If you set off the body scan then I think you get patted down also.

So it is possible to not have to get the pat down.

EXACTLY...one or the other, unless the scan showed something suspicious.

TSA cannot win. When they profile, the liberal dummies cry...when they random screen, the people cry again! If a plane blows up, TSA goes on the chopping block for not doing enough.

 

[Thai]

America is simply starting to not resemble the land of the free anymore. I understand safety but how much more are we really safe when we are patting down a 5 year old boy. Body scans should be enough and I think what we have in place is good enough to make me feel secure.

I guess blood,urine and semen samples will be required next.

The crotch bomber...would the old very brief patdown found the crotch bomber??? The body scan would and so does the new more aggressive patdown. So, you rather have a crotch bomber blow up an airplane or damage enough to crash into a busy building?

As I understand it you either have to take the body scan or the pat down. If you set off the body scan then I think you get patted down also.

So it is possible to not have to get the pat down.

EXACTLY...one or the other, unless the scan showed something suspicious.

TSA cannot win. When they profile, the liberal dummies cry...when they random screen, the people cry again! If a plane blows up, TSA goes on the chopping block for not doing enough.

TSA folks have a thankless job...even though it slows my travels down, I appreciate their tough job because somewhere there is a clown who is yelling pedophile or raping. They keep me safe...we should be thanking them instead of taking cheap shots!

 

[illzoni]

This is where it's getting insane. Someone please explain why a little kid that passes through the scanner without a problem is randomly selected for a pat down? Pedophilia?

What part of "random" don't you understand?

 

[Cornfed]

As I understand it you either have to take the body scan or the pat down. If you set off the body scan then I think you get patted down also.

So it is possible to not have to get the pat down.

No, it is not possible for many to just get the scan. Read my previous post. Is that profiling?
TSA already open to changing procedures, admits their people abusing the searches, but only after being caught by ABC news. I'm sure that it was the first time that person did it. Not! Wow, who could have seen this coming.

EXACTLY...one or the other, unless the scan showed something suspicious.

Again, the kid didn't set the scanner off, a 5 year old that didn't set if off was selected for a pat down, just a little common sense by the TSA would go a long way to gaining respectability. Putting their hands inside peoples underwear won't.
I really don't have a problem with the imaging, but random searches are BS, if these things work so good and they see something suspicious on a person, check that area, but don't pull aside a 5 year old kid that has passed through the system for a pat down and tell me it's for my own safety, that's an insult.

 

[Cornfed]

What part of "random" don't you understand?

The part where random supersedes intelligence, like your post.

 

[Thai]

No, it is not possible for many to just get the scan. Read my previous post. Is that profiling?
TSA already open to changing procedures, admits their people abusing the searches, but only after being caught by ABC news. I'm sure that it was the first time that person did it. Not! Wow, who could have seen this coming.
Again, the kid didn't set the scanner off, a 5 year old that didn't set if off was selected for a pat down, just a little common sense by the TSA would go a long way to gaining respectability. Putting their hands inside peoples underwear won't.
I really don't have a problem with the imaging, but random searches are BS, if these things work so good and they see something suspicious on a person, check that area, but don't pull aside a 5 year old kid that has passed through the system for a pat down and tell me it's for my own safety, that's an insult.

TSA is changing due to public pressures. It could very well lead to future attacks due to laxing of procedures.

So, how are you supposed to find crotch bombs if you don't look for it? Do you have something embarrassing in your crotch? Why are you so sensitive?

Are you against profiling? And now, you're against random searches too? In another post, you're against having to show documentation on demand. Ok...you should NOT be the one questioning someone else intelligence! Just something to ponder.

 

[Cornfed]

TSA is changing due to public pressures. It could very well lead to future attacks due to laxing of procedures.

So, how are you supposed to find crotch bombs if you don't look for it? Do you have something embarrassing in your crotch? Why are you so sensitive?

Are you against profiling? And now, you're against random searches too? In another post, you're against having to show documentation on demand. Ok...you should NOT be the one questioning someone else intelligence! Just something to ponder.

I'm not sensitive about myself at all, I know I'll have to be searched, I guess I should have used the /sarc tags after "is this profiling?" but I was sure everyone would get it.

So you don't believe the scanners work? By your statement someone would think a pat down is the only way to find crotch bombs, I thought the new scanners were able to pick them up, isn't that the entire reason for having them installed?

So we're back to my previous statement, If they work so well, why the random search, why don't they just search the people where scans show something suspicious? By patting down only the people that fail the scan, people would prepare for the scans by not carrying items that set it off, as most frequent fliers have always done, lines would surely go much faster.
If you want to opt out of the scan and get a pat down that's your choice.

There's no reason a person should go through the scanners and still get a pat down, especially a very young child.

Also, I've never had a problem showing my ID, it is second nature for any career military person.

 

[Thai]

You have a choice...scanner...if you don't want it, then patdown. As for the 5 yr old kid in the video, lets not jump to conclusion since we do NOT know the circumstances...did TSA find something abnormal during the scan, etc.?? Do you guys have the facts? Or do we just trust the unknown person behind the camera???

You asked for common sense...the video showed MULTIPLE TSA agents (men AND women) patdowning the kid IN THE MIDDLE OF A BUSY AIRPORT...with TONS OF ONLOOKERS...and IN FRONT OF A PARENT. I also did NOT see the parent (father?) yelling that it is unconsitutional to search their kid...so, apparently, the parent was OK with this.

So, YOU, from just looking at this cell phone video from some unknown person, you amazingly came to several interesting conclusion...one of which is "mass public pedophilia," right? Oh yeah, you're using that highly intelligent common sense of yours! Holy crap.

 

[Thai]

So you don't believe the scanners work? By your statement someone would think a pat down is the only way to find crotch bombs, I thought the new scanners were able to pick them up, isn't that the entire reason for having them installed?

Also, I've never had a problem showing my ID, it is second nature for any career military person.

Huh? Yes, the scanners work. Patdown is available if you don't like it. Random searches are still there. Better be sure than sorry, right? Esp. when it comes to people's lives...you should know that from your military days!

Really? Don't have a problem with showing your ID? Strange, this was what you wrote recently:

I don't want to see profiling and the requirement to display documentation upon command.

So, did the military career teach you to give two opposing comments? :violin:

 

[Cornfed]

Huh? Yes, the scanners work. Patdown is available if you don't like it. Random searches are still there. Better be sure than sorry, right? Esp. when it comes to people's lives...you should know that from your military days!

Really? Don't have a problem with showing your ID? Strange, this was what you wrote recently:

I don't want to see profiling and the requirement to display documentation upon command.

So, did the military career teach you to give two opposing comments? :violin:

Since I'm not 004Gunner I'm finished with this discussion and will let people decide who is intelligent here. Holy Crap :lol:

 

[Thai]

Since I'm not 004Gunner I'm finished with this discussion and will let people decide who is intelligent here. Holy Crap :lol:

My mistake. You all seem alike. :hatsoff: No different than your pedophile comment....

 

[CO_FlyFisher]

The joke on everyone is how much of a farce our airport "security" really is...

Airport security is an illusion; just a show for the sheeple and nothing more. It's really sad just how easy it would be for someone with real intelligence to pull something off.

 

[illzoni]

The part where random supersedes intelligence, like your post.

Since I disagree with you, I lack intelligence. Lovely.

If a process is random, common sense may dictate some exceptions. However, once you open the door to exceptions that list can grow out of control.

We can agree that a 5 year old is a low threat, right? But that hinges upon human decency, which our opponents in this matter lack. If they come to realize a 5 year old is excepted from inspection, do you really believe they're unwilling to utilize one?

This whole hashing of security procedures is counterproductive. Truly effective security procedures need to be unpredictable. While that may infuriate the inconvenienced, it's really the only way to keep the enemy from figuring out a way to beat the system. Follow any given set of rules long enough, and they'll figure out a way around them.

 

[004Gunner]

So, did the military career teach you to give two opposing comments? :violin:

That comment was in regard to border control and the Arizona laws currently under debate. I don't agree that a policy allowing profiling is the solution, neither is demanding more documentation from a person that might have a heavier accent or appearing to be of hispanic descent.

Airport security is another issue altogether. CO_Flyfisher is right about security being an illusion and a lot of security operations are. The TSA is just too new and too many policy makers demand knee jerk reactions. All this backlash on policies should help them sort it out so that they can increase security and decrease controversial screening techniques.

 

[brian2sun]

Any detective will tell you that investigating people randomly is completely useless and it goes against everything our justice system stands for - "Innocent until proven guilty". If we are going to screen a 5 year old old and not screen someone who is Saudi Arabian and was in this country for 2 weeks then everbody who supports this nonsense deserves to go down in flames for being absolute idiots. I agree with RonMaiden, we are loosing our sense of what it is to live in a free country.

Everybody knows that 84 year old Miss Daisy isn't trying to smuggle a bomb on the plane, but yet because we have so many PC morons in this country that she still gets screened just to pretend that we aren't targeting real potential terrorists. So we violate one person's privacy and rights who obviosly isn't a threat to protect another who is a potential threat? Sounds really logical people. This whole system of ours is in it's last days I fear. Too many people in this country will put protecting our own way of life off to the side so that someone doesn't stand the chance of feeling uncomfortable or offended. That's not how wars are won and that's not how a nation stays a nation.

Remember our leaders have no problem sending our citizens to their death to fight in Afghanistan and Iraq, but it's too much to ask that we screen the real threats and leave the rest of our citizen's rights and privacies intact. Death is so much less offensive and politically correct.

 

[illzoni]

I'm no detective, but I believe investigating crimes differs quite a bit from maintaining a secure checkpoint. Random security measures are strongly favored over routine measures.

OTOH, profiling is a legitimate tool as well. It's only gotten ugly because our country is wrought with white guilt and overbearing PC'ness.

Would you think this guy would warrant extra attention?
His hands betrayed young Asian disguised as old white man on Canada-bound flight - NYPOST.com

 

[brian2sun]

I'm no detective, but I believe investigating crimes differs quite a bit from maintaining a secure checkpoint.

They're both trying to catch criminals so I see it as closely related as far as policy goes. The thing that pisses me off is that once again, the AMERICAN PEOPLE DON'T GET TO DECIDE THIS ISSUE like most everything else nowadays. Nor do they even get asked. Freedom seems to be just a word now.

 

[CO_FlyFisher]

Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither.

(Paraphrase of Ben Franklin)

 

[Thai]

Simple...so, you guys are/were happy with the old technique...the one that allowed the shoe bomber on board...or how about the crotch bomber? Remember, both of these guys got on board and lit their bombs. Fortunately, the bombs failed due to incompetence. Our enemies won't make the same mistake over again. So, for "liberty," we should allow these fine folks to blow our planes in the air and kills thousands?

Don't get me wrong, i love liberty (remember, i am an immigrant from a Communist country)...but when it comes to airport security and what it means to my and my family's lives in the air, i am all for stricter processes, whatever that takes.

I bet you that our enemies are just laughing their ass off at the American people for being so dumb....

 

[brian2sun]

Simple...so, you guys are/were happy with the old technique...the one that allowed the shoe bomber on board...or how about the crotch bomber? Remember, both of these guys got on board and lit their bombs. Fortunately, the bombs failed due to incompetence. Our enemies won't make the same mistake over again. So, for "liberty," we should allow these fine folks to blow our planes in the air and kills thousands?

Where does it end though? Should we just have the TSA break out the latex gloves and give everyone body cavity searches because they might have a plastic explosive up their butt that wouldn't show up on an x-ray? There has to be a line drawn somewhere before we are just a monitored society living in fear. THAT is what the terrorist countries are laughing at, the fact that they have made us change. They win.

My point is.. If a long-bearded man wearing a turbin and a robe walks up to the terminal and has a strong Arabic accent, and any other clues that he comes from a country that is know to support terrorists, then f'ing search him and stop tiptoeing around acting like we need to search everybody when we know that 99.9999999% of the people are perfectly harmless. Hijackings aren't anything new and nothing near the scale of 9/11 has happened since. It's hype. Make the people feel unsafe and they will give up their liberty for security. Think about this... even if we kept doing things just as we have for the last 9 years, you and your families chances of being involved in a terrorist attack are probably less than getting attacked by a polar bear and a grizzly both on the same day.