Airport Pat Down

[Duhockey]

I would think training the employees they have now to be more qualified would be less than the cost of the screening machines. Even if they gave everyone who is trained a raise. I don't know if that's true, I'm just specualting, but those machines must be uber expensive too.

I believe if someone has it in their head to sneak a bomb on board, they will find a way around the screening machines. I just feel the machines are much more of a harrassment and invasion of privacy to American citizens than a deterent for terrorists. Suspecting that every American citizen is a terrorist until proven otherwise by a invasive pat down or a naked x-ray is asinine IMO and goes against the ideals of living in a free country IMO. I say leave that crap to the Commies and the dictatorships. You could take out a lot more people by blowing up a Walmart this time of year, you don't think they should start doing full body scans at the entrances to malls and big dept. stores do you? What's the difference and where does this disregard for liberty end? What about sports games? Concerts? Heck, why not church too? I hope you guys can see this is a Pandora's box that we are opening and expecting the government to stop there and not extend this to other areas of our daily life is naive IMO.

Well Stated...

you know heres a quote

They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up

Lets not forget that this same stuff can happen to our country.
Nazi Germany was formed out of a country in a depression,

you are naive if you dont think that it can happen here. The founding fathers would most likely take up arms against this government if they saw what became of what they built...

The government already has taken too many liberties. Ill be the first to tell anyone I told you so if you think they wont take anymore.

 

[brian2sun]

Also, if the terrorists were to be in cahoots with the airport security personnel than what the screeening machine shows wouldn't make a difference, the security guard would just ignore the bomb he or she saw.

I think we don't give enough credit to the intelligence of our enemies. I don't think they give a s**t what security measures we take in our airports because that's old news to them. I believe they're smart enough to realize the whole plane thing is no longer a viable way to terrorize the US anymore. They knew back then that 9/11 would change everything and I'm sure they have new ideas going around that have nothing to do with killing people with planes. There are lots of other ways to kill people effectively, I'm sure they are taking a great deal of time to plan a new way to attack us.

 

[Duhockey]

Brian, i understand your viewpoint...trust me, i am a gun owner and lifetime NRA member. But, you know, airport security and what it means to my and my family's safety is different IMO.

and Thai I understand, but I agree more strongly with this statement, its one of my favorite quotes

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

about that quote from wikipedia
"This was written by Franklin, with quotation marks but almost certainly his original thought, sometime shortly before February 17, 1775 as part of his notes for a proposition at the Pennsylvania Assembly, as published in Memoirs of the life and writings of Benjamin Franklin (1818)"


also from wikipedia, attributed to Franklin,

"Many paraphrased derivatives of this have often become attributed to Franklin:
They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither.
He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security.
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither.
People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.
If we restrict liberty to attain security we will lose them both.
Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
He who gives up freedom for safety deserves neither.
Those who would trade in their freedom for their protection deserve neither.
Those who give up their liberty for more security neither deserve liberty nor security."

 

[brian2sun]

Brian, i understand your viewpoint...trust me, i am a gun owner and lifetime NRA member. But, you know, airport security and what it means to my and my family's safety is different IMO.

I know we think similarly on several political issues and I always enjoy discussing hot topics with you as you have a good head on your shoulders and aren't afraid to state your opinions. Whether I agree or not, I respect people who have opinions.

 

[Thai]

Also, if the terrorists were to be in cahoots with the airport security personnel than what the screeening machine shows wouldn't make a difference, the security guard would just ignore the bomb he or she saw.

I think we don't give enough credit to the intelligence of our enemies. I don't think they give a s**t what security measures we take in our airports because that's old news to them. I believe they're smart enough to realize the whole plane thing is no longer a viable way to terrorize the US anymore. They knew back then that 9/11 would change everything and I'm sure they have new ideas going around that have nothing to do with killing people with planes. There are lots of other ways to kill people effectively, I'm sure they are taking a great deal of time to plan a new way to attack us.

If they think that planes are old news, then why the crotch and shoe bombers? But i agree with you that they are thinking of other ways to destroy our civilization.

I know we think similarly on several political issues and I always enjoy discussing hot topics with you as you have a good head on your shoulders and aren't afraid to state your opinions. Whether I agree or not, I respect people who have opinions.

Same here...oh yeah, 3rd gen sucks!! haha just kidding...i am driving a Prius...that is enough shame for me! :hatsoff:

 

[Thai]

and Thai I understand, but I agree more strongly with this statement, its one of my favorite quotes

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

about that quote from wikipedia
"This was written by Franklin, with quotation marks but almost certainly his original thought, sometime shortly before February 17, 1775 as part of his notes for a proposition at the Pennsylvania Assembly, as published in Memoirs of the life and writings of Benjamin Franklin (1818)"


also from wikipedia, attributed to Franklin,

"Many paraphrased derivatives of this have often become attributed to Franklin:
They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither.
He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security.
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither.
People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.
If we restrict liberty to attain security we will lose them both.
Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
He who gives up freedom for safety deserves neither.
Those who would trade in their freedom for their protection deserve neither.
Those who give up their liberty for more security neither deserve liberty nor security."

Duhockey...different times. Along the same lines as using Israel's methods here in the US, different times require different thinking. Mr. Franklin did not have to deal with airplanes blowing up in the sky. Back then, it was a whole different world. Flying is optional. In fact, that was one reason why i kept the minivan because we don't plan to fly much.

 

[brian2sun]

Well Stated...

you know heres a quote

They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up

Lets not forget that this same stuff can happen to our country.
Nazi Germany was formed out of a country in a depression,

you are naive if you dont think that it can happen here. The founding fathers would most likely take up arms against this government if they saw what became of what they built...

The government already has taken too many liberties. Ill be the first to tell anyone I told you so if you think they wont take anymore.

Unfortunately, I also see a lot of similarities with 1930s Germany and or current situation and political practices. Obviously our situation isn't as bad as Nazi Germany, but don't forget, before they invaded Poland Hitler was very well respected by Germans and many people of other countries. As a matter of fact my own Grandfather almost moved his family from Holland to Germany in the mid 30s because Hitler turned Germany's economic mess around and they were doing much better than the rest of Europe at the time. At that time Hitler looked like a savior for Germany and Austria and no one (foreigners included) expected him to become the tyrant he was.

Hitler's Nazi regime and domination of his own people as well as other countires all started with disarming the public (which left millions of Jews and others without a way to defend themselves). Then they started monitoring their own citizens and made everybody a criminal until they proved they were not. Sound familliar? Of course we aren't quite there yet, but I believe we have started on the same path to government control. At some point in the not-so-distant future, I believe it will take the citizens of this country to stand up and fight for their rights if they want to keep them. Free societies don't just perpetually remain free like so many in this country have never even considered.

 

[Duhockey]

Duhockey...different times. Along the same lines as using Israel's methods here in the US, different times require different thinking. Mr. Franklin did not have to deal with airplanes blowing up in the sky. Back then, it was a whole different world. Flying is optional. In fact, that was one reason why i kept the minivan because we don't plan to fly much.

Thats the problem, these are not different times, people have always attacked one another... the WHOLE reason that Franklin said that was so that people wouldnt drop their guard assuming that things are different. Knowing that Governments turn against their own people first hand and knowing that history repeats itself.

I cant believe so many people take this so nonchalantly... Franklin was writing that for THIS VERY reason... America needs to wake up and realize the pots temperature has slowly been turned up to boiling and they havent even noticed it.

I choose not to fly, because I refuse to have my liberties infringed on like that. and yes, you are right, it is OPTIONAL to fly, but dont close your eyes to the infringements that are going on everyday.

The thing that worries me is not the scanners or the pat downs...

the thing that worries me is that NO ONE CARES their liberty was taken. the american people are so fearful of terrorist activity they will gladly hand their liberty to the government for a false sense of safety. Its absolutely ridiculous.

 

[brian2sun]

Not to mention, many Arabs foreign and non-foreign (the MAIN group of people we should be suspecting) do not have to submit to the test because it "violates" their religious right. Obama signed that one. Yes, that's right - give the people that all this fuss is over a clean way out and continue to harrass Americans. You'd either have to be a enemy of America or out of your mind to allow them a loophole like that. So all a terrorist has to do is say it violates his religion, but old man Witherspoon and his crotchety old wife still get a "grope" discount.

 

[MikesToy]

I saw on the news that some lady just had a coat on. When she took off the coat, she only had her underwear (bra and panty). When asked, she said it made it easier for TSA to do their job. :naughty:

 

[Clemsonfan15]

I saw that last night too. She had a bikini on, not her underwear.

 

[MikesToy]

I heard TSA is hiring a lotta positions in the next 2 months. :