Alignment issues after Bilstein 6112 lift. Help!

[carrera0to60]

I decided to break this out from the normal Bilstein 6112 / 5160 thread since I'm now having issues with my alignment after lifting my 15 TEP w/KDSS about 2". As I said, I added 6112s to the front and 5160s to the rear with a 1.5" daystar spacer. Nothing else has been changed from stock other than Nitto Terra Grapplers G2s in stock size.

The alignment shop did a total of 10 yes 10 alignments over the past couple of days and this is what they came up with to make it drive straight. When they supposedly put everything to spec and even on both sides it pulled to the right. Is there something I could have screwed up in the install that would cause this type of issue? The truck only has 2500 miles on it and was straight as an arrow from the factory.

 

[Lava rocks]

Looksing at that print out it seems that they only changed the toe settings, camber and caster remain unchanged .

 

[Jono.ful]

take it do a different (better) shop that has experience with lifted 4x4's. there should be no issues getting your alignment back within spec. you didn't mention anything about tire rub, but if you are getting any, increasing your caster closer to +4 degrees should help.

 

[3wbdriver]

take it do a different (better) shop that has experience with lifted 4x4's. there should be no issues getting your alignment back within spec. you didn't mention anything about tire rub, but if you are getting any, increasing your caster closer to +4 degrees should help.

Won't happen without UCA's at 2" of lift.

 

[Misterquad]

You have KDSS? So, my first question is, did you do a zero point calibration after the lift? You should do that. Especially, with KDSS.

Next, an experienced alignment tech should be able to get it to track and drive correctly.

Your alignment numbers will always have 2 numbers in red unless you get ucas. But you just want the two numbers out of tolerance equally on each side. I don't see that on your camber.

My suggest as other's said, find an experienced shop.

 

[Saker]

I decided to break this out from the normal Bilstein 6112 / 5160 thread since I'm now having issues with my alignment after lifting my 15 TEP w/KDSS about 2". As I said, I added 6112s to the front and 5160s to the rear with a 1.5" daystar spacer. Nothing else has been changed from stock other than Nitto Terra Grapplers G2s in stock size.

The alignment shop did a total of 10 yes 10 alignments over the past couple of days and this is what they came up with to make it drive straight. When they supposedly put everything to spec and even on both sides it pulled to the right. Is there something I could have screwed up in the install that would cause this type of issue? The truck only has 2500 miles on it and was straight as an arrow from the factory.

Is this the same alignment place that did this to your T4R stated in the following thread?

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/2278569-post500.html

If so, they need to fix or pay to fix this issue and go to a trusted shop....maybe a dealership...they work on T4R's everyday!

 

[krob5697]

The cause of the pulling could be a couple of different things working together. First, swap the front tires left to right and see if it pulls in the opposite direction. If this is the case, take it back to the tire shop and have them swap out the tires because you have a radial pull. This is rare, but it does happen.
The second cause is your caster. There is almost a degree difference between the 2 sides. This should be close to the same to minimize pulling. If you fixed the pull with the tire swap, this still needs to be addressed to minimize the wear on the tires. I suspect a trip to another alignment shop would be in order to correct this. If this wasn't addressed in the first 10 alignments, it might be time for a second opinion. Hope this points you in the right direction.

 

[Saker]

Just thought I would post my spec sheet for comparison.
6112's set at middle Circlip (2" lift) & 5160's on the rear.

Drives without issues!

 

[Jono.ful]

The second cause is your caster. There is almost a degree difference between the 2 sides. This should be close to the same to minimize pulling. If you fixed the pull with the tire swap, this still needs to be addressed to minimize the wear on the tires.

Caster is the lean angle of your control arms, specifically lower control arms since there is no adjustment on the stock - and most but not all aftermarket - upper control arms. It has no bearing on the tire wear, but will affect stability at speed, as well as steering feel

 

[krob5697]

Caster is the lean angle of your control arms, specifically lower control arms since there is no adjustment on the stock - and most but not all aftermarket - upper control arms. It has no bearing on the tire wear, but will affect stability at speed, as well as steering feel

I think you are confusing camber and caster. The camber is the lean of the tire (most exaggerated by looking at racing applications where the top of the tire is leaning inward and straightens up as the car leans that way in a turn) Caster is the forward or rearward location of the whole unit (IE: shock, knuckle, arms, ball joints, etc). This can be visually seen when one tire is closer to the front or rear of the fender well. If there is more than a 1/2 degree of difference from side to side, a pull will occur to the side with the lower amount of caster. Think of a 4 wheeler with the steering wheel slightly turned to the left and the whole axle moves with the steering. The right front wheel is now ahead of the left and will cause the vehicle to turn. If you try to hold the steering wheel straight when the caster is off like this, the wheel that is forward will want to turn and therefore will scrub and cause a squeeling sound as it scrapes across the pavement. (most commonly heard in parking garages) This is the tire wearing because it is scraping and not rolling. I hope this clarifies the differences between the 2.

 

[carrera0to60]

Sorry everyone. I was MIA here, I didnt get any notifications emailed to me.

[MENTION=100152]Misterquad[/MENTION]
Im assuming you're referring to the Yaw zero point calibration? I dont have any lights or anything flashing. Would this actually affect the way the car drives?

[MENTION=103267]Saker[/MENTION]
Yes these are the same guys. I let them have a go at it since they seemed committed to getting it right, and they're going to pay for a 4x4 shop to install the Total Chaos alignment tab gussets so I didn't want to be too much of jerk.
Your specs don't look too much different from mine other than the split I have in caster and yours is higher.

[MENTION=133551]krob5697[/MENTION]
They did rotate the tires and the problem did not follow but I thought the same thing at first. Also they ended up with the split in caster to get it to track straight. If they matched it up left and right it would pull right.

 

[carrera0to60]

I think I've answered my own question by looking at the service manual but I might as well ask anyway. When I was installing the 6112s in the front I noticed that there seemed to be a little "wiggle" room when bolting up the 3 studs on the top hat into the shock tower. It seemed that were was maybe 1/4" that I could slide it from side to side front to back. I tried to have it centered. I tightened down and torqued the 3 nuts while the truck was up in the air and then jacked the LCA up so that I could put the bottom bolt through the shock. I didn't torque the bottom bolt down until I got very thing reassembled and the wheels back on the ground. Should I have done the same with the 3 nuts on the top hat? Is there a possibility that its not sitting where its supposed to? Or rotated one hole off? From what I remember there wasn't a difference between left and right top hats and it didn't seem to matter how they were positioned in the shock tower (rotationally).

 

[krob5697]

This is very weird. Usually matching the two sides keeps the suspension geometry straight and therefore the vehicle tracks straight. I can not for the life of me figure out why the suspension would be purposely offset to compensate for a pull. (unless something like a bolt was put in backwards but that would have been caught during the many adjustments that they made) hhmmmm.......

 

[Saker]

I think I've answered my own question by looking at the service manual but I might as well ask anyway. When I was installing the 6112s in the front I noticed that there seemed to be a little "wiggle" room when bolting up the 3 studs on the top hat into the shock tower. It seemed that were was maybe 1/4" that I could slide it from side to side front to back. I tried to have it centered. I tightened down and torqued the 3 nuts while the truck was up in the air and then jacked the LCA up so that I could put the bottom bolt through the shock. I didn't torque the bottom bolt down until I got very thing reassembled and the wheels back on the ground. Should I have done the same with the 3 nuts on the top hat? Is there a possibility that its not sitting where its supposed to? Or rotated one hole off? From what I remember there wasn't a difference between left and right top hats and it didn't seem to matter how they were positioned in the shock tower (rotationally).

I think you are good on your top plate installation and you followed the procedure to torqueing the lower bolt when the truck was back on the ground.

Thinking something else is off.... I don't think it's the coilover install from what you are describing.
Anyone else differ here?

 

[Jono.ful]

I think you are confusing camber and caster. The camber is the lean of the tire (most exaggerated by looking at racing applications where the top of the tire is leaning inward and straightens up as the car leans that way in a turn) Caster is the forward or rearward location of the whole unit (IE: shock, knuckle, arms, ball joints, etc). This can be visually seen when one tire is closer to the front or rear of the fender well. If there is more than a 1/2 degree of difference from side to side, a pull will occur to the side with the lower amount of caster. Think of a 4 wheeler with the steering wheel slightly turned to the left and the whole axle moves with the steering. The right front wheel is now ahead of the left and will cause the vehicle to turn. If you try to hold the steering wheel straight when the caster is off like this, the wheel that is forward will want to turn and therefore will scrub and cause a squeeling sound as it scrapes across the pavement. (most commonly heard in parking garages) This is the tire wearing because it is scraping and not rolling. I hope this clarifies the differences between the 2.

I'm not confused at all. read my last post again

 

[nj05mcs]

Carrera, i saw you commented on my post in the 6112 thread about factory UCA's are GTG. This thread seems to show otherwise, lol. Did you ever find a remedy for your UCA's or alignment? what was the final judgement?

 

[degooseman]

Carrera,

Who installed your suspension?

I was kind of in the same boat, I'm in Sierra Vista I bought my vehicle in Tucson, it didn't drive straight off the bat. I had the dealer in Sierra Vista get the alignment fixed. In the next week I had a local shop here put on the 6112/5610s with a 2" Icon rear coils. The local shop did not have a alignment machine. It drove straight but took it to the dealer and had them check the alignment and it was driving pigeon toed. They couldn't get me a date for an alignment appointment until 2 weeks out. So I went to Jack Ferrier in Tucson to get an alignment, they didn't have the specs for a 2016 but I insisted the 2014's were the same. The Shop went along anyways and proceeded to get the alignment done. It didn't drive straight and the steering was not centered, had the local dealer in Sierra Vista put it on the machine and it was off. I took it Jacks Ferrier in Sierra Vista to fix the issue and showed the recent print outs from the Toyota Dealer. After driving it out of the shop it seemed the steering wheel was off a hair to the right but drove straight. It was annoying, I wanted to take it back but after a few days. It seemed to have settled. The steering wheel is now centered with no issues. I had even tried at highway speed and went off road and its still driving straight and the steering wheel centered.

I believe you have to find a good tech, there is one in Sierra Vista at a local shop called Desert Automotive that does lifts for the local Sierra Vista dealer. They do great work. I don't remember the name of the manager but he is well respected in getting the stuff done right.
My set up is 6112/5160's 2" rear coils; stock UCA's; TRD Pro rims with BFG 285's.

 

[carrera0to60]

Carrera, i saw you commented on my post in the 6112 thread about factory UCA's are GTG. This thread seems to show otherwise, lol. Did you ever find a remedy for your UCA's or alignment? what was the final judgement?

Well, mine is still off but I'm chalking it up to the alignment shop. Since now I'm getting the alignment cam gussets installed it'll have to be realignedafter that obviously. But with that said the aftermarket UCA's are needed if you're short on caster adjustment. Mine was well in spec for caster on the 3rd clip of the 6112s

 

[carrera0to60]

Carrera,

Who installed your suspension?

I was kind of in the same boat, I'm in Sierra Vista I bought my vehicle in Tucson, it didn't drive straight off the bat. I had the dealer in Sierra Vista get the alignment fixed. In the next week I had a local shop here put on the 6112/5610s with a 2" Icon rear coils. The local shop did not have a alignment machine. It drove straight but took it to the dealer and had them check the alignment and it was driving pigeon toed. They couldn't get me a date for an alignment appointment until 2 weeks out. So I went to Jack Ferrier in Tucson to get an alignment, they didn't have the specs for a 2016 but I insisted the 2014's were the same. The Shop went along anyways and proceeded to get the alignment done. It didn't drive straight and the steering was not centered, had the local dealer in Sierra Vista put it on the machine and it was off. I took it Jacks Ferrier in Sierra Vista to fix the issue and showed the recent print outs from the Toyota Dealer. After driving it out of the shop it seemed the steering wheel was off a hair to the right but drove straight. It was annoying, I wanted to take it back but after a few days. It seemed to have settled. The steering wheel is now centered with no issues. I had even tried at highway speed and went off road and its still driving straight and the steering wheel centered.

I believe you have to find a good tech, there is one in Sierra Vista at a local shop called Desert Automotive that does lifts for the local Sierra Vista dealer. They do great work. I don't remember the name of the manager but he is well respected in getting the stuff done right.
My set up is 6112/5160's 2" rear coils; stock UCA's; TRD Pro rims with BFG 285's.

I installed the suspension myself. If I had access to an alignment rack I'd love to do my own but that's easier said than done. The shop I'm taking it to for the cam gussets is a very reputable shop and I think (hope) I'll be happy with the results. It's scheduled to be worked on next Thursday, I'll report back after.

 

[degooseman]

Sweet, good luck, hopefully it finally gets squared away. I was like that too thinking to myself maybe its the suspension and was upset why cant they get this right. On the last alignment I drove it and hated how my steering was off center. I hated the feeling after but it really did seem to settle. I don't recommend this but what I did a few days after the alignment, I went off road up Huachuca Canyon and speed through the somewhat flat terrain and it seemed to get it within spec.

I cant post pictures of all the spec sheets in order if you want to get you an idea.