Alignment question?

[arehman11]

I'be searched but couldn't seem to find a specific post. I have a 3 week old 17 TRDOP and it has felt sloppy and not driven straight, I've had An alignment and days later it was out of spec again, had another done and it was fine for a week so I had it done again yesterday. My question is my thrust angle went from -.05 to -.15, is this causing an issue for me as you'd ideally want this close to zero?
I've attached my alignment sheet from yesterday. This was done at a Toyota dealership FYI.

 

[RonJR]

Nothing on the rear axle is adjustable, so the thrust angle is what it is. I read the sheet as saying it went from -0.09deg to -0.15 deg, a difference of 0.06 deg. My guess is that is within the repeatability of the measurement from one day to another, depending on how the bushings were loaded, vehicle loading, amount of gas in the tank, etc.

Of greater concern is why your toe is shifting by 0.1deg or so in a matter of a week or two, and why it is feeling "sloppy". Does it drive OK right after the alignment?

 

[TEujunga]

Agree that 0.15º thrust angle is insignificant and likely isn't the cause of any "sloppy" handling issues.

If the handling still doesn't feel right to you, I'd look elsewhere than alignment because your "after" numbers are all within spec. If everything checks out, then the "sloppy" feel may just be a characteristic of the truck and something you have to get used to. They're not sports cars!

 

[arehman11]

Nothing on the rear axle is adjustable, so the thrust angle is what it is. I read the sheet as saying it went from -0.09deg to -0.15 deg, a difference of 0.06 deg. My guess is that is within the repeatability of the measurement from one day to another, depending on how the bushings were loaded, vehicle loading, amount of gas in the tank, etc.

Of greater concern is why your toe is shifting by 0.1deg or so in a matter of a week or two, and why it is feeling "sloppy". Does it drive OK right after the alignment?

It does drive okay after the alignment, but yes m concern is definitely with the toe shifting so easily. The previous alignment sheet looks like this, I suspect the dealer just did a shitty job and got it to be barely in spec.

 

[RonJR]

On my 4th gen, the handling didn't really tighten up until I installed aftermarket UCA's and got the caster up to about 4 degrees. Really tracks well now. At 2.8 degrees it definitely liked to wander.

 

[arehman11]

Also to be clear, this was done by two different dealers. My first post is the dealer that did it yesterday and the other is from the previous dealer who re did it. I do understand it isn't a sports car and I guess I'm just getting used to it. I'm coming from a G37 and my fiancé drives a BMW, so big change for us.

 

[wfo9]

This is simple and obvious sort of... Your alignment is moving all over the place.

The first sheet shows caster as negative on one side and positive on the other, prior to the alignment... toes is also off, but I'm sure that is related to the LCA moving. That type of difference in caster will cause very strange handling with the vehicle pulling to the negative caster side. It is normal to have about a .5* delta in caster, but always with the right side being a bit more positive to account for road crown. Other than that.. they should be equal. Yours was completely jacked up.

Strange part is camber stayed about the same... This is unusual since caster is measured via a delta of camber in a 40* sweep from center.

Alignments don't move that much unless something is very loose or very wrong in the suspension.

Most techs don't tighten the LCA bolts to proper torque. They need to be 130 ft/lbs... check them.

The problem is most likely in the LCA. Just loose or bushing is defective.... I would make sure the bolts are to spec and see if the alignment sticks this time.

Edit. Looks like I read the sheet wrong. Maybe it is positive on both side (hard to read). Still had too much delta and you want the right side higher than the left if any delta.

 

[arehman11]

This is simple and obvious sort of... Your alignment is moving all over the place.

The first sheet shows caster as negative on one side and positive on the other, prior to the alignment... toes is also off, but I'm sure that is related to the LCA moving. That type of difference in caster will cause very strange handling with the vehicle pulling to the negative caster side. It is normal to have about a .5* delta in caster, but always with the right side being a bit more positive to account for road crown. Other than that.. they should be equal. Yours was completely jacked up.

Strange part is camber stayed about the same... This is unusual since caster is measured via a delta of camber in a 40* sweep from center.

Alignments don't move that much unless something is very loose or very wrong in the suspension.

Most techs don't tighten the LCA bolts to proper torque. They need to be 130 ft/lbs... check them.

The problem is most likely in the LCA. Just loose or bushing is defective.... I would make sure the bolts are to spec and see if the alignment sticks this time.

Edit. Looks like I read the sheet wrong. Maybe it is positive on both side (hard to read). Still had too much delta and you want the right side higher than the left if any delta.

Just so I fully understand, my current caster after alignment is 3.0 left and 3.2 right, this should fall within the .5 delta range. If for some reason the bolts were loose, my before caster had shifted significantly from the original alignment. So the proper spec for the LCA bolts is 130ftlbs and these are the bolts that are front and rear on the front lca correct?

 

[flyrv9]

Yea, the changing values would be my concern. They should not change in a short period of time unless things are loose (not tightened properly) or the truck hit a curb or something. When you get it back in spec, but some torque seal on the fittings. That way you will be able to see if anything moved next time - if there is a next time. BTW torque seal is also called inspection putty. A stripe is put down the side of a nut to structure. If the nut moves the stripe (line) will be broken. Torque seal is usually bright colored (like orange) and easy to spot. If you want to get serious - use nuts (or in some cases bolts) drilled for safety wire and go that route.

 

[arehman11]

Yea, the changing values would be my concern. They should not change in a short period of time unless things are loose (not tightened properly) or the truck hit a curb or something. When you get it back in spec, but some torque seal on the fittings. That way you will be able to see if anything moved next time - if there is a next time. BTW torque seal is also called inspection putty. A stripe is put down the side of a nut to structure. If the nut moves the stripe (line) will be broken. Torque seal is usually bright colored (like orange) and easy to spot. If you want to get serious - use nuts (or in some cases bolts) drilled for safety wire and go that route.

Thanks! I'm hoping it was just something loose because of how quickly the car went out of spec. The first dealer didn't seem to have any of their A team working. I hope there wasn't any damage, it had 17 miles on the odometer when I bought it and drove fine and I haven't hit anything.

 

[Diablo169]

I had a similar issue after I lifted my 16 Tacoma. First time they didn't tighten the LCA bolts properly and they rotated out of position. Second time they adjusted the toe improperly, even though the sheet showed it being in spec. Either that or I smashed into a curb and didn't remember.

Did the dealer look for anything that could be lose or worn that could be causing the wobble.

 

[SATSTRAIL]

Just so I fully understand, my current caster after alignment is 3.0 left and 3.2 right, this should fall within the .5 delta range. If for some reason the bolts were loose, my before caster had shifted significantly from the original alignment. So the proper spec for the LCA bolts is 130ftlbs and these are the bolts that are front and rear on the front lca correct?

Your current measurements after your most recent alignment are perfect. As long as everything is torqed to spec you should be good to go. The .2 difference in caster from side to side should compensate for road crown and allow you to track pretty straight.

 

[arehman11]

I had a similar issue after I lifted my 16 Tacoma. First time they didn't tighten the LCA bolts properly and they rotated out of position. Second time they adjusted the toe improperly, even though the sheet showed it being in spec. Either that or I smashed into a curb and didn't remember.

Did the dealer look for anything that could be lose or worn that could be causing the wobble.

They didn't mention any other issues and they even checked the tires for balance and uneven wear, and said no issues. They said it's possible the other dealers alignment rack may be telling them it's in spec when it wasn't, but didn't allude to anything being loose, but who knows that was a service advisor and not the tech. I'm going to put torque seal on tonight and check it after the weekend to see if it shifted and if it did I'll go back have them re do it and specify the torque specs id like it to be set at.

 

[Jono.ful]

The first dealer didn't seem to have any of their A team working.

Would be highly unusual for an A level tech at a dealership to do an alignment. Most likely a lower level apprentice - better than an oil change monkey, but probably not by much.

 

[arehman11]

Would be highly unusual for an A level tech at a dealership to do an alignment. Most likely a lower level apprentice - better than an oil change monkey, but probably not by much.

Yep, that is exactly who they had do it. I wish I had the cash to buy an alignment rack, it doesn't seem that hard to just do it right!

 

[wfo9]

Just so I fully understand, my current caster after alignment is 3.0 left and 3.2 right, this should fall within the .5 delta range. If for some reason the bolts were loose, my before caster had shifted significantly from the original alignment. So the proper spec for the LCA bolts is 130ftlbs and these are the bolts that are front and rear on the front lca correct?

Yes. and set them to 130 ft lbs. Many people just set them to what they consider tight.. Which is not enough. Also marking the cam and the tab with a paint pen or something is a good idea to make sure things are not moving....

 

[Jono.ful]

Yep, that is exactly who they had do it. I wish I had the cash to buy an alignment rack, it doesn't seem that hard to just do it right!

As others have stated, it's likely your LCA's, and more specifically the alignment bolts causing the problem. Next time, go out with a paint pen or a sharp punch and hammer and put witness marks on your alignment tabs and the eccentric bolts. Makes it pretty easy to tell when your alignment is actually drifting.