Alignment questions

[Artery3]

Hey guys, I finally lifted my 4Runner yesterday. Toytec Boss with LR UCA. So i went and got an alignment today. Long story short, It was a nightmare... Essentially Im wondering if any of the alignment guys out there can tell me if my numbers are ok? The alignment specialist said he couldn't get 4 degrees caster. I know he didn't touch the control arms. I gave him the instruction sheet and he didn't even look at it. I preset the UCAS in the D position at 2 Degrees caster. I plan to go a little higher on the coilovers in a couple months so i figured I would get another alignment then, will I be good?

Caster 3.8
Camber -0.1
Toe 0

Thanks in advance!

 

[wfo9]

Hey guys, I finally lifted my 4Runner yesterday. Toytec Boss with LR UCA. So i went and got an alignment today. Long story short, It was a nightmare... Essentially Im wondering if any of the alignment guys out there can tell me if my numbers are ok? The alignment specialist said he couldn't get 4 degrees caster. I know he didn't touch the control arms. I gave him the instruction sheet and he didn't even look at it. I preset the UCAS in the D position at 2 Degrees caster. I plan to go a little higher on the coilovers in a couple months so i figured I would get another alignment then, will I be good?

Caster 2.8
Camber -0.1
Toe 0

Thanks in advance!

I'm not sure how it was a "nightmare" but the numbers in the sheet you posted look about perfect.

 

[Artery3]

I'm not sure how it was a "nightmare" but the numbers in the sheet you posted look about perfect.

He wouldn't even try to get my caster that high at first.

It took a lot of explaining to get to those numbers.

The guy told me that the caster can not be the same on both sides or else it would pull...

 

[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

He wouldn't even try to get my caster that high at first.

It took a lot of explaining to get to those numbers.

The guy told me that the caster can not be the same on both sides or else it would pull...

Generally, you'll never get a pull unless the difference (Cross-camber and cross-caster) from one side to the other is greater than .5 degrees. He may be talking about road crown compensation in which you make the drivers side less positive or the passenger side more positive (caster pulls to the less positive side) You do this with caster because it is the least likely angle to cause tire wear. As an example he could have set your drivers side caster to say 3.5* and the passenger side to 3.8 or so. You wouldn't want to go to .5* because then you might pulls to the left on flat surfaces.

 

[Artery3]

Generally, you'll never get a pull unless the difference (Cross-camber and cross-caster) from one side to the other is greater than .5 degrees. He may be talking about road crown compensation in which you make the drivers side less positive or the passenger side more positive (caster pulls to the less positive side) You do this with caster because it is the least likely angle to cause tire wear. As an example he could have set your drivers side caster to say 3.5* and the passenger side to 3.8 or so. You wouldn't want to go to .5* because then you might pulls to the left on flat surfaces.

Thanks for the reply. That makes a lot more sense then what he was saying. Thanks for explaining that.

 

[e60ral]

Bumping this question to ask a related question

I had a decent amount of road crown impact when new but i notice it even more with new tires. I feel like i have to actively steer the vehicle or it won't stay centered in the lane.

This all sounds like caster, right? I'm on factory suspension with factory size K02's and no other suspension mods. Before I paid for an alignment I wanted a quick sanity check.

Also, would increasing caster also help the 4runner wander lest in cross winds?

 

[1engineer]

Bumping this question to ask a related question

I had a decent amount of road crown impact when new but i notice it even more with new tires. I feel like i have to actively steer the vehicle or it won't stay centered in the lane.

This all sounds like caster, right? I'm on factory suspension with factory size K02's and no other suspension mods. Before I paid for an alignment I wanted a quick sanity check.

Also, would increasing caster also help the 4runner wander lest in cross winds?

Yes.

 

[catrains]

He wouldn't even try to get my caster that high at first.

It took a lot of explaining to get to those numbers.

The guy told me that the caster can not be the same on both sides or else it would pull...

WITH THE TOE @ZERO YOU WILL HAVE DIFFICULTY keeping the vehicle straight on a bad road. zero is min spec max spec is .35 total toe . you need some toe positive . like .1/.15 deg..

 

[SteadFAST 4Runner]

Hey guys, I finally lifted my 4Runner yesterday. Toytec Boss with LR UCA. So i went and got an alignment today. Long story short, It was a nightmare... Essentially Im wondering if any of the alignment guys out there can tell me if my numbers are ok? The alignment specialist said he couldn't get 4 degrees caster. I know he didn't touch the control arms. I gave him the instruction sheet and he didn't even look at it. I preset the UCAS in the D position at 2 Degrees caster. I plan to go a little higher on the coilovers in a couple months so i figured I would get another alignment then, will I be good?

Caster 3.8
Camber -0.1
Toe 0

Thanks in advance!

Check out my thread
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/224491-4runner-alignment-phoenix-arizona.html#post2451850

I had a similar experience... from 2 places, the Dealership and Firestone ... both of them couldn't align my 4Runner properly.

Find an alignment place that has SOLID EXPERIENCE with lifted vehicles OR go to a Dealership that has a Tech that knows what he is doing they do all their LIFTED vehicle alignments ON SITE. If not, you won't get a good alignment.

 

[catrains]

looks like your corrected total toe is .19 which is in the middle of the toyota spec...

his being zero is not proper ..

 

[Racehoss]

I was having to correct my steering all the time.
I asked for more caster based on this forum.
How does this look to you guys?

 

[1engineer]

I was having to correct my steering all the time.
I asked for more caster based on this forum.
How does this look to you guys?

Here's what's missing from the conversation:

IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT YOUR FINAL NUMBER IS! What matters is two things:
1. Is it within spec and
2. How does it drive?

You can have a caster of 2.8, and, if it drives good then it's fine. Driving does not get "gooder" lol.

Caster it seems, needs to be towards the higher end of the spec range to be "good," which means it does not feel skittish on the road. The value of "4" is not a magic number. It seems too many people think they must attain that number. In reality "3" or "2.5" might be just fine, depending on the other alignment settings. People who are trying to stuff big tires under there increase caster to give the tires a bit more room as a main reason even though it drives fine at the current spec. So "4" is nice but then again, "3" could be just fine.

 

[Racehoss]

Here's what's missing from the conversation:

IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT YOUR FINAL NUMBER IS! What matters is two things:
1. Is it within spec and
2. How does it drive?

You can have a caster of 2.8, and, if it drives good then it's fine. Driving does not get "gooder" lol

Well like I mentioned before this alignment I was having to correct the steering constantly meaning no it wasn't driving good. After the alignment it seems to drive a bit better as far as not being turned in one direction or another from the slightest wind, dip, off camber etc.

However the caster numbers are out of spec by .1

I guess my question is being out of spec on caster by .1 going to do unnecessary wear to other suspension parts when the suspension cycles up and down?

Oh ya. Stock trail suspension with trd wheels and 265/70/17 ko2

 

[1engineer]

Here's what's missing from the conversation:

IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT YOUR FINAL NUMBER IS! What matters is two things:
1. Is it within spec and
2. How does it drive?

You can have a caster of 2.8, and, if it drives good then it's fine. Driving does not get "gooder" lol

Well like I mentioned before this alignment I was having to correct the steering constantly meaning no it wasn't driving good. After the alignment it seems to drive a bit better as far as not being turned in one direction or another from the slightest wind, dip, off camber etc.

However the caster numbers are out of spec by .1

I guess my question is being out of spec on caster by .1 going to do unnecessary wear to other suspension parts when the suspension cycles up and down?

Oh ya. Stock trail suspension with trd wheels and 265/70/17 ko2

No and no.

 

[e60ral]

However the caster numbers are out of spec by .1

I guess my question is being out of spec on caster by .1 going to do unnecessary wear to other suspension parts when the suspension cycles up and down?

Oh ya. Stock trail suspension with trd wheels and 265/70/17 ko2

0.1 shouldn't impact anything

at a certain point you get into dynamic problems because of the trail amount, but you shouldn't be anywhere near that point

 

[Hugo Stiglitz]

I recently took mine to Toyota to have an aligbment just so they couldn't say anything negative about my little bit a lift on the Kdss 4R.

But I have an alignment guy who does it old-school you're not going to get a print out and you're not gonna get number of degrees out or in, none of that, he does it all by eyeball- completely old-school and it always comes out perfect -I had 10 inches a lift and 35's on a Tacoma and he aligned that thing up beautifully -tires always wore perfectly everything was perfect all those computer things do is scare you. Find an old school dude for a real alignment. Just a thought.

He's aligned everything Ive owned for last 15 years. Best alignment guy out there.

Hey guys, I finally lifted my 4Runner yesterday. Toytec Boss with LR UCA. So i went and got an alignment today. Long story short, It was a nightmare... Essentially Im wondering if any of the alignment guys out there can tell me if my numbers are ok? The alignment specialist said he couldn't get 4 degrees caster. I know he didn't touch the control arms. I gave him the instruction sheet and he didn't even look at it. I preset the UCAS in the D position at 2 Degrees caster. I plan to go a little higher on the coilovers in a couple months so i figured I would get another alignment then, will I be good?

Caster 3.8
Camber -0.1
Toe 0

Thanks in advance!

 

[catrains]

Caster 3.8
Camber -0.1
Toe 0

IMO zero toe is not what I want.

 

[Yoderguy]

That caster is perfectly fine!
However you want a "toe in" to keep the 4R tracking straight. Not a lot, just a tad, otherwise you'll have aggressive tire wear and Lord knows we don't need that haha

 

[e60ral]

I recently took mine to Toyota to have an aligbment just so they couldn't say anything negative about my little bit a lift on the Kdss 4R.

But I have an alignment guy who does it old-school you're not going to get a print out and you're not gonna get number of degrees out or in, none of that, he does it all by eyeball- completely old-school and it always comes out perfect -I had 10 inches a lift and 35's on a Tacoma and he aligned that thing up beautifully -tires always wore perfectly everything was perfect all those computer things do is scare you. Find an old school dude for a real alignment. Just a thought.

He's aligned everything Ive owned for last 15 years. Best alignment guy out there.

this is terrible advice, don't listen to this advice

 

[Hugo Stiglitz]

this is terrible advice, don't listen to this advice

Haaaa. It's great advice. Because I've had it aligned by old school Danny and then had it checked before by a dumb ass computer. In spec. Thanks for your nonsensical reply.

Never had a problem with any work done by Danny. My vehicles drive perfect. So tell me what's wrong with this advice

Especially when alignments or not rocket science