All geared up for V8 transmission fluid change - Toy service recommends NO

[AuSeeker]

yes, but...why would it still overflow so much from the level check drain after i refilled it and drove it around the block a couple times to warm up the ATF?

The fluid level check plug is designed to insure the proper level as long as you check it at the proper temperature, I wouldn't worry about the level, if it was too low the transmission would be slipping.

 

[Bluesky 07]

yes, but...why would it still overflow so much from the level check drain after i refilled it and drove it around the block a couple times to warm up the ATF?

It appears that what happened when you did the level check is exactly what's supposed to happen.

This is from the FSM. First note that the temp range is 115 to 130F (though I've seen disagreement here and there). If the fluid is at the correct temperature, the design of the overflow system ensures the correct amount of fluid is in there. You either wait until the flow is a trickle and replace the overflow plug or, if nothing comes out, you add fluid until it comes out of the overflow then replace it when the flow is a trickle.

 

[Ripper238]

That is Toyota's official response because WS is a "lifetime fluid." Toyota techs see a lot but most people stop taking these things to the dealership when they're old and super high mileage. They don't want you blaming the for the trans failing if it comes after a fluid change. Read my previous post about most people not changing fluid until they feel a slip or something. Many also will not tell a mechanic because they don't want them to know. They'll just ask to change the fluid. Then when the trans goes, customer will blame the shop for the change and will swear up and down there was no issue before it.

It wasn't the really the official response and he did separate "lifetime fluid" vs non. He seems pretty straight up about everything: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TevK-u3vkx4

But i agree that they wouldn't want the blame, especially with so many that barley do maintenance to begin with and want to blame someone after the fact.

I am a self proclaimed transmission killer. Every car I have owned has had bad transmissions (7) except for my Mazda and now 4Runner. My Acura I changed the trans fluid every 30k, transmission died at 100k. That new transmission I never changed the fluid and it went another 200k. Go figure...

Apparently only if its made in Japan they have good transmissions. lol

 

[Drcoffee]

today i picked up 4 quarts at the dealer with the intention of just draining the pan and refilling, the start of a process like what RDRUSS was recommending.

Interestingly, when i removed the level check plug at the beginning of the process ATF liberally flowed out. Temp of trans wasn't cold, car had been sitting for a couple hours since i last drove it. Interesting that so much flowed out of the level check. Had it been overfilled from the factory or had a change actually been done at some point and proper level check wasn't done? Who knows.

So, about 4 1/4 quarts came out...it wasn't as grey and ugly as i remember, but it ain't red, that's for sure. In the process of refilling with the transfer pump i probably lost 3/4 quart due to spillage. So, a little over 3 quarts got put back in.

I plugged in my ODB scanner and got the trans temp up between 100-105 by driving around the block a couple times and then removed the level check plug. Fluid flowed out at a good rate for about 8-10 seconds. Then the flow died down, at which point i put the plug back in. I didn't wait for the flow to completely stop...got too spooked about loosing too much.

I think i'll run another 4 quarts in there when i change the oil in a couple of weeks and leave it at that for now, and repeat it again the next oil change.

Still feel a little weird that at the end of the day i have less fluid in there than i did before i started. Guess i'll monitor the trans temp for the next week or so. As i said i was seeing 170s before.

For clarity. You brought the temp of the ATF up to 105*F, let the truck continue to run, then removed the 5mm hex socket plug to check the level, and fluid drained out to a trickle?

If the fluid is between 105-115*F when you installed the plug. You are fine. If you removed the hex head bolt, that would be the drain plug. I have to ask, are you sure the plastic level straw is still installed?

If you drained the transmission with the engine off, its fine, but you will get more fluid out than what would normally be in the pan with the engine running. Its better to overfill by a Qt before setting the level than to be a Qt short.

 

[Bluesky 07]

For clarity. You brought the temp of the ATF up to 105*F, let the truck continue to run, then removed the 5mm hex socket plug to check the level, and fluid drained out to a trickle?

If the fluid is between 105-115*F when you installed the plug. You are fine. If you removed the hex head bolt, that would be the drain plug. I have to ask, are you sure the plastic level straw is still installed?

If you drained the transmission with the engine off, its fine, but you will get more fluid out than what would normally be in the pan with the engine running. Its better to overfill by a Qt before setting the level than to be a Qt short.

I’ve seen that range before but the FSM says 115F to 130F (see page in my post above). Was there a service bulletin revising the temps, or what’s the source on the 105F to 115F range?

 

[randy88fj62]

No one has mentioned it yet. The main factor in fluid degradation is heat. Toyota FSM says it wants the transmission around 175°F.

If you put bigger tires, offroad lights in front of the radiator, a winch in front of the radiator and other things (like me) then the fluid gets hotter.

So if your fluid is regularly over 210° then I'd be swapping it every 30,000 or so. If I reach 240°F then I change it immediately.

I recently got sick of dealing with the higher temps I created and added a larger cooler which is double the stock OEM size.


So before you do a fluid swap, what is your average transmission temp? Without knowing that you're simply doing preventative maintenance.

 

[bob3dsf]

There's a lot of voodoo concerning transmission fluid. Just changing out some fluid can only help. If a long service interval is concerning you, let me ask this: Is it currently shifting fine? If so, then I would drop the pan on the first change. This way, you can see what's in the pan, see how much metal in on the magnets, and clean the pan out really well. Any debris, like clutch material, ought to be in the pan, and if it's not exhibiting any shifting problems then it would seem like there are no clogged passageways in the valve body, etc. After the clean pan is back on it, then you can refill and continue with your service plan, or you could do the cooling line exchange, etc. Either way, you can be reasonably sure that you are not recirculating any junk in the tranny.

Remember, the cooling line exchange won't recirculate any old fluid. That gets ejected out of the cooling line. Your fills are just putting in fresh fluid. If you decide to drop the pan, check out some videos on YT, or write ups here. There's a tricky bolt and putting the new gasket on requires a little tacky sealant to hold it in place. It's not really that hard. Also, there's no need to change the trans filter. Anyhow, there's my 2 cents.

 

[Drcoffee]

I’ve seen that range before but the FSM says 115F to 130F (see page in my post above). Was there a service bulletin revising the temps, or what’s the source on the 105F to 115F range?

I set my level at 112-115*F

2006 FSM online download

2006 4Runner FSM http://www.ezdries.net/Vidpics/4Runn...pairManual.zip

 

[Bluesky 07]

I set my level at 112-115*F

2006 FSM online download

2006 4Runner FSM http://www.ezdries.net/Vidpics/4Runn...pairManual.zip

Looks like step 6 there validates the 115F to 130F range.

 

[AuSeeker]

Just an FYI, if you decide on dropping the transmission pan, keep in mind that on the V8s you have to remove the crossover exhaust pipe to remove the pan, there's not enough clearance to remove the pan without removing the pipe.

For anyone reading this that has a V6, you can drop the pan without removing any of the exhaust.

 

[4thGen4Life]

Considering doing the flush to mine as well but have over 250k miles. Going to pull my records and see when the last time it was serviced. Thanks for all the info in this thread.

 

[gn9119]

For clarity. You brought the temp of the ATF up to 105*F, let the truck continue to run, then removed the 5mm hex socket plug to check the level, and fluid drained out to a trickle?

If the fluid is between 105-115*F when you installed the plug. You are fine. If you removed the hex head bolt, that would be the drain plug. I have to ask, are you sure the plastic level straw is still installed?

If you drained the transmission with the engine off, its fine, but you will get more fluid out than what would normally be in the pan with the engine running. Its better to overfill by a Qt before setting the level than to be a Qt short.

Yes, you correctly described what i did. I'm not sure what the plastic level straw is (edit: i see via the diagram it's attached to the level check inlet drain hole)? I did drain the pan with the engine off. Checked the level with the engine on. Temps were between 100-105. My OBD reader has an ATF temp 1 & 2. 1 is generally 4-10% lower than 2.

I'm changing the oil in 500 miles. i'll recheck the trans level then and monitor the temps in the mean time. Haven't gotten above 150F yet, but it's ass cold too.

Is the trans temp the sure fire way to know if you are under-filled with ATF (besides the level check drain...let's assume the drain straw is dislodged).

 

[gn9119]

No one has mentioned it yet. The main factor in fluid degradation is heat. Toyota FSM says it wants the transmission around 175°F.

So before you do a fluid swap, what is your average transmission temp? Without knowing that you're simply doing preventative maintenance.

in the summer i'm in the 170s

 

[gn9119]

There's a lot of voodoo concerning transmission fluid. Just changing out some fluid can only help. If a long service interval is concerning you, let me ask this: Is it currently shifting fine? If so, then I would drop the pan on the first change. This way, you can see what's in the pan, see how much metal in on the magnets, and clean the pan out really well. Any debris, like clutch material, ought to be in the pan, and if it's not exhibiting any shifting problems then it would seem like there are no clogged passageways in the valve body, etc. After the clean pan is back on it, then you can refill and continue with your service plan, or you could do the cooling line exchange, etc. Either way, you can be reasonably sure that you are not recirculating any junk in the tranny.

Remember, the cooling line exchange won't recirculate any old fluid. That gets ejected out of the cooling line. Your fills are just putting in fresh fluid. If you decide to drop the pan, check out some videos on YT, or write ups here. There's a tricky bolt and putting the new gasket on requires a little tacky sealant to hold it in place. It's not really that hard. Also, there's no need to change the trans filter. Anyhow, there's my 2 cents.

thanks, good points here.
it has been shifting fine, no issues.