Another one bites the dust! LBJ failed on the trail

[SlickmisterN]

Ok now this is scaring me. Traditional wisdom says change at ~120k mi? I just passed that... and though my service records are extensive, I don't have one for LBJ's.

(Sigh), guess it'll be those instead of the roof rack I was planning on

 

[92Pony]

Scary stuff indeed. I guess I need to bite the bullet and replace the ones on my son's newly-acquired '98 with 225k mi on it. Have no idea on the history of the vehicle.....hwell:

 

[geohil]

For those of us who have never replaced a LBJ, can someone rate the level of difficulty doing a field repair? Do most people carry spares when venturing away from civilization? Mine were replaced by the PO ~10k mi ago with OE, but I would hate to have to abandon my rig in the forest while I was chasing down spares should they ever go.

With the right tools, flat ground, and above freezing temperature the replacement is easy. A ball-joint separator makes the tie rod removal easier but most find you can do it by beating on the ball-joint with a BFH. After that it is just 4 grade 8 14mm bolts. Don't forget the locktite on the re-install.

I'm not sure what others do but I keep the parts I'm replacing like LBJ's, ITRE, and more just to take along for field fixes.

 

[02SE]

I know the plural of anecdote is not data, but these threads always raise my hackles a bit.

Is it common here bc of a high population of off-road enthusiasts? Is it similarly common in 2wd on-road daily drivers?

It's largely due to a poor design by Toyota. The lower ball joints on the 3rd gen are in tension, instead of the much better and safer design of placing the ball joint in compression.

Basically, on the 3rd gen, the ball joint is always under a load that is trying to pull the ball joint apart.

Lifts, and off-road use place even more load on the ball joints, so they will fail sooner.

 

[scrap metal]

I assume mine are oem. They look oem And I doubt they were changed before with 127,000 on the odometer (carfax verified lol)

I also believe mine wore out faster and snapped due to the lift and lots and lots of off road. I off road at least once a month and I Don't baby my 4runner haha.

. The trail leading up to the failure was pretty harsh and rocky. Luckily it snapped at the top of the trail where the clearing was.

The failure also ripped the boot on the upper ball joint... it was dry and now I see stuff leaking out.

Here's my list so far. I didn't need all the cv boots. Just one ripped and the passenger has had a tiny leak... but I'll be down there anyway so I'll just do them

Anyone know the part number on the lower 14mm bolts or do I just ask

 

[scrap metal]

My question: were the ball joints feeling worn at all (loose, rattling) to give any indication of wear before this happened?

You won't feel it by driving. Only way to tell is to see if there's up and down play with the car jacked up. Won't see it moving the tire by hand either. You'll need crow bar and probably another set of eyes

 

[thor999]

Seems like this post has generated some new interest in this potential failure... I would like to point out that there was a recall on these, check your VIN, and when replacing, not a bad idea to use blue loctite and replace the bolts w/ OEM, ran me around $14.

 

[JayRolla]

My buddy just had his new OEM ball joint fail. It didnt fail at the ball like normal but the threads ripped off and took the bolt with it. We are guessing it wasnt tq'ed enough?

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

Anyone know the part number on the lower 14mm bolts or do I just ask

From another thread:

#90080-10066 for the bolt...

 

[Scramble]

great job on the field fix, glad it wasn't worse.
Mine need to be replaced now at 151,000.

 

[gamefreakgc]

That's a crazy repair to do on the trail! Props for doing it.

BTW, you might want to do the other side too when you have it back home. Chances are it's on its way out soon as well, and I'm sure you'd rather change it in your garage then on the side of a mountain again.

And for what it's worth, it seems the inner tie rods go bad just as fast as the outers, at least for the road-driven vehicles. I got two lifetime parts from Autozone for $40 and they are just as good as the OEM's (made in Japan). Plus they have a warranty. It's really not any more work if you are doing the outer tie rods anyway. Don't use anything other than OEM's for the LBJs though. There's a design flaw with the lower ball joints and only the OEMs are designed to handle the stress.

If you do LBJ, inner and outer tie rods your steering is pretty much set for a long, long time.

 

[animator]

You won't feel it by driving. Only way to tell is to see if there's up and down play with the car jacked up. Won't see it moving the tire by hand either. You'll need crow bar and probably another set of eyes

Yep.

Some have reported an increased steering effort, but some have said there was no difference at all until one side just gives up. This thread shows how the factory manual says to check for excessive wear. It's simple to check if you have the right tools.


http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...-ball-joint-inspection-testing-procedure.html


LBJs are next on my list... at 170k miles, they look and feel great, but it is worth it for peace of mind. They were replaced under recall with OEM at 30k per dealership records, so with 150k on them currently, it may be time for a new set....

 

[gamefreakgc]

Yep.

Some have reported an increased steering effort, but some have said there was no difference at all until one side just gives up.

I definitely had the "increased steering effort". I couldn't figure out why my 4Runner was so hard to turn, was thinking it was a power steering problem. Then I replaced LBJ's and inner tie rods and handles like a brand new vehicle. there was so much slop in the bearings that it was fighting the steering.

 

[Kenworth]

Question for op,did u have plenty of beer for the night you spent guarding your runner?

 

[scrap metal]

Question for op,did u have plenty of beer for the night you spent guarding your runner?

Beer is part of my spare parts bin. :tea: :beer:

Along with my Smith & Wesson M&P 45 FDE, although i never took it out of its locked box lol. There were large animal tracks we could see up in the snow on the side of the mountain, not sure what it was but it looked fresh and it looked like it started going down and changed its mind and went back up.

PS. I do not advocate drinking and driving and shooting nor have I admitted to such motions in my previous statements :rapture:

 

[96LTDrus]

You won't feel it by driving. Only way to tell is to see if there's up and down play with the car jacked up. Won't see it moving the tire by hand either. You'll need crow bar and probably another set of eyes

Good to know. I've had the suspension extensively pried and pulled and tested every which way when I was tracking down a source of what felt like suspension 'wobbling' on the highway. I might invest in some spares to carry in the truck but I feel fairly confident in the LBJs I have on now as far as their condition is concerned.

 

[afg10000]

Glad everything worked out all right. I'll offer a recommendation. I always do new LBJ's when installing a lift with one of these. Too many horror stories on here (a lot recently). But when your changing the happy home of these components, they fail much quicker when they're that old -

 

[masphx]

Glad everything worked out all right. I'll offer a recommendation. I always do new LBJ's when installing a lift with one of these. Too many horror stories on here (a lot recently). But when your changing the happy home of these components, they fail much quicker when they're that old -

So.....

Just lifted my rig. LBJ installed 35k ago. Replace?

 

[Unner]

Yep.

Some have reported an increased steering effort, but some have said there was no difference at all until one side just gives up. This thread shows how the factory manual says to check for excessive wear. It's simple to check if you have the right tools.


http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...-ball-joint-inspection-testing-procedure.html


LBJs are next on my list... at 170k miles, they look and feel great, but it is worth it for peace of mind. They were replaced under recall with OEM at 30k per dealership records, so with 150k on them currently, it may be time for a new set....

I'm in the exact same boat. I've got 166k on the truck now, but they were apparently replaced under recall in 2005 probably around 50k, so I've got almost 120k on them now about. I didn't see any play when I checked, but I think I will be replacing them soon as I plan to do more wheeling this summer and would like to put a small lift on soon, as well as larger tires.

I definitely had the "increased steering effort". I couldn't figure out why my 4Runner was so hard to turn, was thinking it was a power steering problem. Then I replaced LBJ's and inner tie rods and handles like a brand new vehicle. there was so much slop in the bearings that it was fighting the steering.

How hard was your 4Runner to turn before? Like really hard or just slightly?

So.....

Just lifted my rig. LBJ installed 35k ago. Replace?

If you went with OEM I would think you are still OK with only 35k on them. If you are lifted I would plan to replace them like every 90k or so though just as peace of mind, or maybe even a little earlier.

 

[gamefreakgc]

I'm in the exact same boat. I've got 166k on the truck now, but they were apparently replaced under recall in 2005 probably around 50k, so I've got almost 120k on them now about. I didn't see any play when I checked, but I think I will be replacing them soon as I plan to do more wheeling this summer and would like to put a small lift on soon, as well as larger tires.



How hard was your 4Runner to turn before? Like really hard or just slightly?




If you went with OEM I would think you are still OK with only 35k on them. If you are lifted I would plan to replace them like every 90k or so though just as peace of mind, or maybe even a little earlier.

Let's say it was a lot harder than my 91 Pickup with 290k miles, and ridiculous when compared to a new vehicle. My wife had a hard time turning the vehicle, she's rather small and doesn't have a whole lot of strength. When I first got it was hard to turn and the wheel wouldn't return to center (would want to spin in circles!) till I replaced the rack guide. Someone stupid torqued it to about 100 lbs./ft. I think it ruined the rack too.

According to the FSM, hard steering can be cause by worn ball joints and steering components. Was true in my case.