Another tire question

[fasterdammit]

Ok, tire gurus ...

My truck's wearing a set of 315/75R16 Nitto Grapplers right now, and they're pretty wide. If I'm not mistaken, it's about a 12.5" wide footprint. I like the height (35", basically), which I'd like to keep, but the width concerns me only for the fact that I live in the snow belt (central NY).

It's not uncommon to get 30-36" of snow overnight, and generally carry 2' from December to April. My concern is that come winter, the truck is gonna to be skiing everywhere. So I've been toying with the idea selling the current set of rims (Cepek DC-1s) & rubber as a set in favor of something new. Preferably BFG ATKOs, most likely (unless someone would like to suggest something else that skirts the line of daily driver and capable wheeler).

My question is, what size(s) am I looking at, rubber-wise to go a little skinnier, and would I be better suited to using a slightly larger rim (17s?) along with a slightly skinnier tire? I realize the larger rim cuts into available sidewall, but what's the threshold here?

Or - just tell me I'm being silly and those big wide Grapplers will do fine in any amount of snow and slush.

 

[KidVermicious]

315 is your tire width in MM. The 75 is the aspect ratio, the distance between the rim and the tread, expressed as a ratio of the tire width.

You can play around on Tirerack.com, but I dunno that you're going to find a skinnier 35 inch tire for that rim size.

 

[fasterdammit]

You can play around on Tirerack.com, but I dunno that you're going to find a skinnier 35 inch tire for that rim size.

Yeah, I understand how the tire sizing works; I was trying to determine if there was a slightly skinnier tire option - or if I'm basically looking at that size footprint for a 35. Would a smaller - or larger? - diameter rim provide more tire width options?

Follow-up question: if I'm locked into that width for that size tire, can anybody post up any reviews of how well 315/75R16 (or similar sized) Nitto Grapplers handle lots of snow? Is my truck going to go skiing this winter, or am I just being nervous about nothing? (Caveat: I do know how to drive in the snow, unlike a lot of locals who think that "4wd" simply means they can still drive like it's Nascar out there, even with 12" of powder. But am I stacking the deck against me with fatter-than-necessary tires?)

 

[J-money$$$]

air down and you will be fine. just run about 15 psi on those snowy days

 

[CAN-03runner]

I live in Montreal, so about the same kind of snow conditions. This winter I kept my Mickey Thompson MTZ on through the winter. 33/12.5/17, not 35's but 12.5 wide just the same. I didn't have any trouble plowing through anything, even ice seemed fine as it felt the giant lugs would crack and bite into it.

I did keep them aired down to try and maintain as much contact on the road as it did slide at intersections and stop signs. Not always but only on days when it was warm or rainy and then all of a sudden freezing so a sheet of ice formed at intersections and they hadn't salted yet. But as you mention, myself knowing that was the case, I just drove slower and kept a good distance. If I would turn a corner and step hard on the gas, it would lose control. VSC usually would be able to recover, but not always. So I took corner slowly, except on empty roads to have some fun and see what VSC was capable of. And mine is V8 AWD, so even in AWD it loses it. Driven slower, unlike a lunatic, I didn't have problems. But ice is ice...no mater what you are driving with.

I didn't have any hairy driving experiences with them at all. ( except when I was being a pinhead...only on empty roads....)And Except a couple of times when I drove on wide open country roads. They don't plow to the ground there, and being farm land around the wind just blows up across the road and pushes you around. That was the only place I would feel like the truck was skating around and wished I had put my Yokohama geolander dedicated winters tire on even if only 31's

I did it last winter, but the coming winter I think I will bite the bullet and get some 33" dedicated winters. Maybe you can also just do that, get some dedicated winters in 33". Just so your lifted truck doesn't look that weird. In winter it might be good to have things like the speedo reading right, and closer to stock tires, so braking, and abs, and vsc and all that jazz has an easier time keeping you safe.

I wheel with an FJ club and many of them swap out their 33-35MT for 32-33 dedicated winters. Like I said, I did it this year, had no problems, but I would regret it big time if I had an accident that maybe could have been avoided if I was only able to stop only but a few feet sooner with real winter/ice tires.

Don't get BFG AT's for winter. They will fill up with snow and it will be like driving on a snow ball. No traction. Not personal experiance, but buddies with heep things.

 

[fasterdammit]

@J-money: LOL! True ...

@CAN_03: awesome post, thank you. I know what you mean about goofing around - I used to have a '93 Ford Exploder Sport (2 door) which, like my T4R, was rear-wheel drive in 2hi. And in that, I usually used "rear wheel steering" when the roads were crappy: in 2nd or 3rd gear, if the front wasn't pointing where I wanted, a generous application of throttle would usually break the rear end free & get it sliding - and get the truck pointed where I wanted. It had ATKOs on that (stock size, 235s?); they were pretty controllable. I don't know if the T4R will have the snot to spin these 35s or not (even w/ 4.88s), so I guess we'll just have to see.

Good to know about the ATKOs, so thank you for that too. I'm starting to think I'll keep these Nittos for a winter, otherwise, I'll never know. Then I guess I'll go shopping if need be. Dedicated snows aren't a bad idea either, but I'm not sure I can put that one past the CFO (Mrs. fasterdammit) just yet.

Also - "VCS" - Virtual Stability Control?

 

[CAN-03runner]

Just noticed you have a 3rd Gen. maybe VSC only came into the 4th gens and beyond--->

VSC - Vehicel Stability Control. When the truck sensors sense that it is going through a lateral slide, it controls breaking and engine power to try and stop the slide. Works pretty good, but you have to have confidence in it, and just keep the gas pressed and let it do its thing. Apparently, after seat belts this type of system in cars is the next runner up to having saved lives.

As for the CFO's they usually buy into the safety and security argument. In Quebec they finally made it a law. Road vehicles require winter tires, and LT tires are still considered winters until 2014. So the "its the Law" thing...works with my CFO.

 

[JB.]

fasterdammit,

If you adjust air pressure at all, up would be better than down. Why? Same reason you wouldn't air down if it were raining. You want to get down to the pavement, not ride on top of the water, slush, or snow. I'm guessing if ground clearance becomes an issue, you won't be on the road anyway.

 

[CAN-03runner]

fasterdammit,

If you adjust air pressure at all, up would be better than down. Why? Same reason you wouldn't air down if it were raining. You want to get down to the pavement, not ride on top of the water, slush, or snow. I'm guessing if ground clearance becomes an issue, you won't be on the road anyway.

Awh, I could see how that could have some merit, except that any non winter tire even if marked all-season but not really a true winter tire will freeze and become hard like a hockey puck. Airing down gives the tire some ability to flex and maintain more surface area contact with the ground.

Airing up, will make the contact patch smaller, maybe even skinnier...where in the snow skinny tires are better when driving on the road to put more weight and pressure on the ground on one spot for better traction. But proper air pressure, and not aired down or up with REAL winter tires that will not freeze is best. They must have the mountain/snowflake symbol.

Again, I used my MT's all winter without too much issue aired down but I did have to adjust my driving and it was far from driving the truck when my winter tires had been installed, or drving my other cars with dedicated winter tires. But eventhough I can't in good conscience say to someone, yeah go for it, you will be fine, no difference between All-season-MT-AT-or dedicated winter tires, and its perfectly safe. It is not. You really need to be aware of your limits and adjust driving appropriately.

This is a great video from TireRack. yeah I know they want to sell tires... but it is well done.

http://www.tirerack.com/a.jsp?a=AK2&url=/videos/index.jsp&video=26&tab=winter

 

[fasterdammit]

But eventhough I can't in good conscience say to someone, yeah go for it, you will be fine, no difference between All-season-MT-AT-or dedicated winter tires, and its perfectly safe. It is not. You really need to be aware of your limits and adjust driving appropriately.

And that is really the crux of the whole driving-in-snow issue right there: your driving habits have to be appropriate for the conditions; part of the conditions being your vehicle and the sneakers its wearing.

And I don't know about Quebec, but every time winter hits here, the general populace just loses their mind, like they've never seen snow before. Half of them do 20mph on the freeways, most the SUV owners think they're invincible, and still leave their low profile, summer-rubbered 22" dubs on "because it's a 4x4" (when it's more like AWD) - and they just spin them for everything they've got.

I think I was just a little anxious because I haven't driven anything with a 12.5" wide footprint in the pummeling we usually get come January. My old FJ was strictly 'good weather', and my old Exploder had stock(ish) sized tires, so it wasn't an issue. So of course my driving habits will be appropriate; but if I was setting myself up for trouble with wide tires then I'd rather not.

re: VSC - that sounds like something that's part of AWD, so that'd rule me out. Your description sounds like our Subaru's system, which I'm really impressed with.

 

[JB.]

your driving habits have to be appropriate for the conditions; part of the conditions being your vehicle and the sneakers its wearing.

Well put. It's by far the most important factor in the equation and you've got it covered.

If you leave them on, come winter you'll know the answer and have experience that will be valuable in the future.

 

[brian2sun]

Duratracs are made in 315/75/16 and they are one of the best snow tires you can get and by far the best off road/snow tire. That would be the best choice IMO and they are severe winter rated also. Few M/Ts do well on packed highway snow, but the Duratacs have lots of angles and siping for that and the lugs are deep and far enough away from eachother to dig well in deep snow too.

Interco makes a 35x10.5/16, but it's a true mud tire. The tread on the 315/75/16 Duratacs in snow far outweighs the extra 2.5" of width IMO.

Another option is to go to a 255/85/16 (33.5x10") which is what I'm running now. These dig down to the asphalt through deep snow very well because they are so skinny, but the regular 'ol M/T tread sucks on packed snow. So it all depends on what kind of snow you'll mostly be using them on.

There also aren't a lot of companies who make the 255/85/16 size so your options are limited. I'm actually planning to move up to 315/75/16s because I can't find a good 255 snow tire (BFG makes the A/T in that size but I'm not a fan of BFG A/Ts in snow). This winter, I'll be either getting the Duratracs or the Treadwrights with the crushed walnut/glass (which is supposed to work well in snow).