Any suggestions for college decision?

[BOFFROAD]

I will be going to college next year and am trying to decide on where to go. So far I have looked at Grand Canyon University and Northern Arizona University and both have their plus and minuses. I would like to know if anyone is or has attended either one of these and how did you like it?

I am also open for suggestions. I am looking for something on the west coast preferably outside of California that has many outdoors activities(off-roading) near by. I want to study criminology/justice studies.

 

[CXS]

I won't condemn a university based on one person but it does make me question their programs. In this case it's Grand Canyon University where someone working under my daughter's direction was doing their student teaching to complete their Master's degree in education. This guy was clueless, didn't know the basics any first year teacher should know, much less a soon-to-be Master's degree holder.

To Grand Canyon University's credit they were appalled as well and told her to send the guy packing. How he made it that far is what is concerning. Atypical? Probably (hopefully) but I hope but thought I'd share any way.

 

[Nervo19]

What can you afford to pay for tuition plus room & board? Find out how much your parents will contribute, if anything. Grand Canyon University is a private FOR PROFIT university. They are coy about tuition on their website but if you do the math it costs $117,000 for four years! Students can only borrow $5500 their first year by themselves from federal student loans. It goes up to $7500 for junior & senior year. If you intend to borrow more your parents have to co sign. Go to an online calculator to figure out how much payments will be. A private loan of $100k will be 1100.00 a month for ten years! And according to the Arizona Republic they are not even ranked by US News which means you might not be able to transfer or get a job with your degree.

Grand Canyon University's business model succeeds, but education rankings lag

Go to each school's web site and do the financial aid calculator to figure out how much each school will cost. The most affordable schools are usually in state. There are a lot of small private schools here and there that do give merit aid. If your family earns a very low income google "colleges that meet need" and apply to them.

Stay away from "For Profit" schools! There are private schools that are accredited and non profit that are great but generally for profit schools exist to sell you an in house loan and get veteran's benefit money. They are a business. Any school you choose should be able to show the stats on the percentage of graduates that work in the field they studied for. If they can't there's your sign.

It looks like Northern Arizona could be decent. They are public and fairly inexpensive at $23,000 out of state. They have "rolling admission" which means you find out about a month after you apply.

Northern Arizona University | Best College | US News

California is known to have one of the best public college systems in the U.S. You really should check them all. You can figure out what grades and SAT scores you need by googling "Common Data Set + name of school" and find at least one school that you are in the top 75% for (safety), one you are in middle 50% for (match) and one you are in the bottom 25% for (reach).

We are in VA and my oldest son is a senior. He's in to his lowest desired safety and has an interview with a college president next week for a full ride to another safety. He has all his applications in and can just relax and play senior year. My advice would be to get your grades where you want them at the end of junior year so in September you can send your applications in and relax. That means taking the ACT or SAT a couple of times junior year because the scores will go up each time you take them. Good luck. Didn't mean to lecture you but I'm bored. Hopefully some west coast people can suggest other schools for LE. I've actually worked with people who went to AZ State for it.

 

[BOFFROAD]

Thank You CXS and especially Nervo19 for the awesome and detailed response. I am certainly not having anyone make the decision for me and never will. I just like to hear what other people have to say. Fortunately money isn't an issue and neither are grades nor test scores:reddance:. You've given me some more things to look at upon deciding which are important factors.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Holy sh$t. Please forgive my bluntness.

Do not, do not go to a private for-profit university.

You would be better off joining the Marines.

Private non-profit university: Yale, Harvard, Baylor etc.

Private for-profit university: IT Tech, Kaplan, Many other super sh$tty yet very expensive universities.

Their business model is to enroll students, convince them it is worth taking out debt, the students take out massive amounts of college debt that is federally backed and the universities deliver as little education as they can get away with, because hello FOR-profit. Students are convinced it is good for them but it is not.

Recruiters at for-profit are SALES PEOPLE who are paid a commission for each new sucker emm I mean student.

Students often do not realize they can never, ever get out from under that debt unless they pay it off the hard way. There is no bankruptcy for student loan debt.

Fun fact: while in the Navy I met multiple people in their 20s who had already done to college but couldn't pay back the debt and joined the service for student loan and debt relief. These folks were ENLISTED because their degrees were from FOR-profit universities and non accredited for transfer to state colleges. They did not qualify to be officers. Also their majors were often something the military had little interest in. The military usually prefers a BS.

Here is a test to determine if your for profit college is a terrible idea. Pick another college in the same state that is a public university, say ASU. Can them and ask how many credits will transfer over if you decide to leave this private FOR-profit at year 2 of 4 and switch to ASU. Listen to what they say. I don't know the details of that exact for-profit but normally, the overwhelmingly majority of the time you will be told the credits do NOT transfer. You are trapped and you are paying 2,3,4x the cost of a state school and you have only the choice of doing out or continuing on.

Now take another student who went to a B-rated state school or community college out of HS, got great grades the first two years (this student will have very little debt BTW) then decides he/she wants to transfer somewhere else, perhaps to a different college or major. He/she can transfer to nearly any school in the country if the grades are strong. And to top it off the tuition is much much less than a For-profit.

I have two friends who each have over $100K in student loan debt that they are barely making headway on. For the most part only doctors, lawyers and certain engineering majors manage to easily (maybe not easily) pay off that kind of debt. These individuals are in their 30s, have good jobs and are struggling to get by. It has changed their entire life plan. One of them, a girl told me her only hope it that her parents promised their estate to her and her brother and when they die the money should be enough to pay off most of the loans. How f#cking horrible is that. She doesn't want them to die obviously but she was just stating that eventually it will happen and it could be her only way out.

Choosing a For-profit college could be the biggest mistake of your life.

 

[JBurt]

Biggest reason against for profit universities: Google "graduation rate for (enter school name here)"

I teach at a California community college. Great place to start if you don't know where you want to wind up.

 

[1engineer]

Holy sh$t. Please forgive my bluntness.

Do not, do not go to a private for-profit university.

You would be better off joining the Marines.

Private non-profit university: Yale, Harvard, Baylor etc.

Private for-profit university: IT Tech, Kaplan, Many other super sh$tty yet very expensive universities.

Their business model is to enroll students, convince them it is worth taking out debt, the students take out massive amounts of college debt that is federally backed and the universities deliver as little education as they can get away with, because hello FOR-profit. Students are convinced it is good for them but it is not.

Recruiters at for-profit are SALES PEOPLE who are paid a commission for each new sucker emm I mean student.

Students often do not realize they can never, ever get out from under that debt unless they pay it off the hard way. There is no bankruptcy for student loan debt.

Fun fact: while in the Navy I met multiple people in their 20s who had already done to college but couldn't pay back the debt and joined the service for student loan and debt relief. These folks were ENLISTED because their degrees were from FOR-profit universities and non accredited for transfer to state colleges. They did not qualify to be officers. Also their majors were often something the military had little interest in. The military usually prefers a BS.

Here is a test to determine if your for profit college is a terrible idea. Pick another college in the same state that is a public university, say ASU. Can them and ask how many credits will transfer over if you decide to leave this private FOR-profit at year 2 of 4 and switch to ASU. Listen to what they say. I don't know the details of that exact for-profit but normally, the overwhelmingly majority of the time you will be told the credits do NOT transfer. You are trapped and you are paying 2,3,4x the cost of a state school and you have only the choice of doing out or continuing on.

Now take another student who went to a B-rated state school or community college out of HS, got great grades the first two years (this student will have very little debt BTW) then decides he/she wants to transfer somewhere else, perhaps to a different college or major. He/she can transfer to nearly any school in the country if the grades are strong. And to top it off the tuition is much much less than a For-profit.

I have two friends who each have over $100K in student loan debt that they are barely making headway on. For the most part only doctors, lawyers and certain engineering majors manage to easily (maybe not easily) pay off that kind of debt. These individuals are in their 30s, have good jobs and are struggling to get by. It has changed their entire life plan. One of them, a girl told me her only hope it that her parents promised their estate to her and her brother and when they die the money should be enough to pay off most of the loans. How f#cking horrible is that. She doesn't want them to die obviously but she was just stating that eventually it will happen and it could be her only way out.

Choosing a For-profit college could be the biggest mistake of your life.

Brilliant.

 

[4reshAir]

UNLV? Not sure about your choice on for-profit schools. Should try traditional or CC to 4 year route. Another option is to go to Cal State, study hard and transfer out and pursue criminology.

 

[USKTog]

I will be going to college next year and am trying to decide on where to go. So far I have looked at Grand Canyon University and Northern Arizona University and both have their plus and minuses. I would like to know if anyone is or has attended either one of these and how did you like it?

I am also open for suggestions. I am looking for something on the west coast preferably outside of California that has many outdoors activities(off-roading) near by. I want to study criminology/justice studies.

There have been some great responses, but the things I'd be asking are these:

What is your career path? What do you want to major in? What is the reputation of each school in that area of academia?

 

[CXS]

Keep in mind that the name on your eventual diploma may have some impact on getting hired afterwards. I told my kids, who went to state universities, that if the name on the diploma matters a lot they could transfer for their final credits to wherever they want to get the 'right' name on their diploma. (They didn't.)

I suspect a CC is the right choice for many people getting started unless they're definitely driven in a direction they've given a lot of thought to.

 

[Unner]

Keep in mind that the name on your eventual diploma may have some impact on getting hired afterwards. I told my kids, who went to state universities, that if the name on the diploma matters a lot they could transfer for their final credits to wherever they want to get the 'right' name on their diploma. (They didn't.)

I suspect a CC is the right choice for many people getting started unless they're definitely driven in a direction they've given a lot of thought to.

Another thing that matters arguably more than the name on the diploma (so long as it is an accredited university) is work experience. You can have a 4.0 GPA but if you never did anything but school some places will throw your resume right in the trash can with everyone else's.

 

[Logan714]

What do you want to do?

I went to NAU for a year and loved Flagstaff. It was a great school and there are times when I really kick myself for being stupid and wasting my time up there.

 

[Kadmon428]

Innerstand Something

Don't think that excessive debt is exclusive to a for profit school. It's a post college epidemic. And if you actually have some thousands amount of dollars to spend each year for the next 4 years then you will get a way better education NOT going to ANY college. College is full of dorks, beer drinkers, and other types of losers who have no idea who they are or why they are on the planet. They don't know how to take care of themselves holistically, shit they probably don't know the yearly position of the SUN, and they most often resort to doing what everyone else is doing. If you've been in the school system since you were 4 or 5 years old don't you think you owe it to yourself to at least spend some time exploring the world and exploring yourself?

There are so many internships, volunteer, work-trade opportunities out there where you can learn real skills that will help you take care of yourself and put you in a position where you are working within the biological and stellar cycles, as opposed to technological cycles. There's so many workshop courses you can take for fees nominal to what college tuition and lifestyle would cost. You can travel and interact with people in a whole new way and see some of the diversity of land and people in the world. There's no study-abroad course, or "cool" alternative school like Prescott or Warren-Wilson, etc that can really do that for you.

I was a 4.0 highschool student who turned down the university of michigan and who left michigan state university in favor of more free-flowing lifestyle and i not only have no regrets, but i want to seriously start compiling a list of resources, opportunities, workshops, farms, and other college-less trainings that could be a direct, intentional alternative to university.

Take a break from the system, find a natural rythm, follow the sun, moon, and stars, exercise and stretch, live outside for a while, grow food, save seeds, learn more trades/creative skills/'primitive' skills/natural building skills and you will find out way more about who you are and why you are here.

There's just days and days more of preaching i can do on this topic. Get a hold of me if you are interested in alternative learning. You can always try the Prussian Serf method of education for a few more years and then you'll know for sure that you are more powerful than any college will give you credit for.

 

[amalik]

Don't think that excessive debt is exclusive to a for profit school. It's a post college epidemic. And if you actually have some thousands amount of dollars to spend each year for the next 4 years then you will get a way better education NOT going to ANY college. College is full of dorks, beer drinkers, and other types of losers who have no idea who they are or why they are on the planet. They don't know how to take care of themselves holistically, shit they probably don't know the yearly position of the SUN, and they most often resort to doing what everyone else is doing. If you've been in the school system since you were 4 or 5 years old don't you think you owe it to yourself to at least spend some time exploring the world and exploring yourself?

There are so many internships, volunteer, work-trade opportunities out there where you can learn real skills that will help you take care of yourself and put you in a position where you are working within the biological and stellar cycles, as opposed to technological cycles. There's so many workshop courses you can take for fees nominal to what college tuition and lifestyle would cost. You can travel and interact with people in a whole new way and see some of the diversity of land and people in the world. There's no study-abroad course, or "cool" alternative school like Prescott or Warren-Wilson, etc that can really do that for you.

I was a 4.0 highschool student who turned down the university of michigan and who left michigan state university in favor of more free-flowing lifestyle and i not only have no regrets, but i want to seriously start compiling a list of resources, opportunities, workshops, farms, and other college-less trainings that could be a direct, intentional alternative to university.

Take a break from the system, find a natural rythm, follow the sun, moon, and stars, exercise and stretch, live outside for a while, grow food, save seeds, learn more trades/creative skills/'primitive' skills/natural building skills and you will find out way more about who you are and why you are here.

There's just days and days more of preaching i can do on this topic. Get a hold of me if you are interested in alternative learning. You can always try the Prussian Serf method of education for a few more years and then you'll know for sure that you are more powerful than any college will give you credit for.

As you use a forum technology website to post against technology

 

[amalik]

OP, no offense but do you have any plans for what to do after justice studies?

i.e. law school?

It kind of sucks when you're young and just want to take it easy and have fun with friends etc, but if you can do the research behind a path that interests you, has a good market out there, etc -- you have the opportunity while young to attack it with a full head of steam and be ahead of your peers, i.e. pharmacy school, dental school, engineering, etc.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Get a hold of me if you are interested in alternative learning.

What the heck is alternative learning?

On a more serious note I'm all about human beings working to expand their knowledge of the universe. The library is an amazing thing, as is the internet.

I would only suggest college to learn a trade or a skill. It doesn't need to be as straight forward as engineering but at a minimum students should go somewhere that actually teaches and trains in critical thinking or some type and it should be focused in something where employers actually want to hire you.

So basically if you are going to spend 4 years of your life on a BS/BA, a one time opportunity mind you, at least do it with a career in mind.

If you want to learn about humanities just go to the library.

 

[BrianSD_42]

OP, no offense but do you have any plans for what to do after justice studies?

i.e. law school?

It kind of sucks when you're young and just want to take it easy and have fun with friends etc, but if you can do the research behind a path that interests you, has a good market out there, etc -- you have the opportunity while young to attack it with a full head of steam and be ahead of your peers, i.e. pharmacy school, dental school, engineering, etc.

I would think there is little correlation if any between justice majors and law school. I believe #1 major to transfer into law school is either History or English.

Justice major would likely set you up to be an enlisted MP.

Please please please check out BLS.gov

* http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_table_101.htm
* http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2015/employment-projections-for-occupational-groups-2014-to-2024.htm
* http://www.bls.gov/news.release/ecopro.toc.htm
* http://www.bls.gov/ooh/


I'd also suggest googling "schools with highest student loan default rates" reading some articles about it and researching WHY these schools have default rates. The reason isn't because they are private for profit. The reason is usually because they are crappy schools who let in students that would be rejected by better schools. The real tragedy are those who could have gotten into a decent state college and are instead tricked into the for-profit scam school system.


Lastly ... check out the free hour long documentary College Inc. by PBS Frontline
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/collegeinc/


BTW PBS has pulled this documentary from their site. Someone uploaded it to Youtube last week.

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/lh-J2-93YR8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


:bat:

 

[Thai]

I will be going to college next year and am trying to decide on where to go. So far I have looked at Grand Canyon University and Northern Arizona University and both have their plus and minuses. I would like to know if anyone is or has attended either one of these and how did you like it?

I am also open for suggestions. I am looking for something on the west coast preferably outside of California that has many outdoors activities(off-roading) near by. I want to study criminology/justice studies.

For me, it comes down to being practical.

1. Which college to go does NOT define you in most instances...unless you're comparing Harvard vs. Bob's college. Just do NOT pick a college that favors one race over another or one that has a glaring bad reputation.

2. Your grades and exams define you...and a little bit of extracurricular activity.

3. Your profession of choice determines your salary. Pick wisely. Remember, unless you are determined to be a loner, you will be supporting YOURSELF and YOUR future family.

4. Pick your majors and minors with goal of achieving your profession.

5. Money does not mean happiness...but it sure helps...a lot!

6. If your main dream job/profession does not pay well, then go to your 2nd choice and so on. Why? Go back to point 5 above.

7. If your chosen profession pays well, then you always have the chance to do what you LOVE on the side.

Side note: my wife is in a boring profession that pays well with great benefits. It is boring, but she has the $$$$$ and time off from work (aka good hours) to do what she likes on the side.

I may get criticism for above but what i wrote above is true. Good luck in whatever you decide.

 

[Wingsuit]

Let me comment on "justice studies", or criminal justice, or whatever they call it now. If you want to be a police officer, they teach you what you need to know at the academy. The FBI has little interest in recruiting that degree, unless you have some heavy police experience on top of it. Get a degree in something you can make a living at, like accounting, engineering, computer science, finance etc. then go get a police job and you'll be way ahead of the curve. And if you want to go federal learn a foreign language like Farsi, Arabic or Chinese. Or even Spanish. Just not French or German. And no, do not go to a private for profit. By the way, NAU has a really good FCS football team.

 

[willbgood]

College decisions...college debt

Everything said here has been great. My addition is but a small one.

1. make sure you have clearly thought out your career path and the future earning capacity, as well as, the happiness factor. There is nothing worse than being in a career you hate, and even sometimes one you can tolerate.

If criminal justice is a step, towards say law, choose again, as most top tier law schools are not looking for crim law degrees and you might find it hard to get scholarships. The chances of making it in law, if your degree is not stellar are greatly reduced, and you may find yourself dealing cards in Las Vegas paying of 100,000 bucks at 7%.

If you are looking towards law enforcement, you definitely do not want to go into debt at a private college...the pay is not great. Unless you can verify that your service in law enforcement can get you student debt don't do it.

Finally, look at Thomas Edison state college on line. It is likely the most affordable and most respected of any online school in America. The online program was originally started for those in the diplomatic corps and active duty military personal getting ready to transition and is now open to anybody. If you a self starter it is the way to go to keep the first few years of your school affordable. If your not a self starter, you need to become one.

Their CLEP, DANTES, prior experience and learning policy is by far the best of any school in America, and combined with cost, it is the most affordable way to earn an undergraduate degree.

While finishing my second degree there, Bio-chem tech/history several of my classmates got accepted to top tier graduate schools, and one received a scholarship. The schools included George Washington, Princeton, and Columbia.

Their recruiting website has a lot to be desired, I suppose because it has become so popular among veterans and active duty military, who have folks available to walk them through the process, that they do not feel the need to improve recruitment. On the other hand, their actually portal to the school is excellent and the professor are top tier. I was actually stunned by the fact that some of my professor were indeed famous, and were moonlighting, often having tenure at a top tier school.

Check it out, is indeed affordable and accessible. In my case I like the portability and the fact that if I had internet, in my case a cellular modem, my class room was were ever I was, including a cross country trip on a Harley. (talk about making everyone jealous with my photos).

College Degrees for Adults at Thomas Edison State College

Finally, reconsider your career path and make sure you heading where the money is and that jobs are available...