Any thoughts on headers

[ChildrenOfBodom]

ah you guys are buzz kills! LOL

just get the headers then get a supercharger! who cares if its not gonna be as fast as a Honda??

Personally I need to do my exhaust before I do a S/C so I will be doing headers, I almost did a TRD catback exhaust yesterday found it for 200$

1 piece at a time!

I want TRD exhaust!! BTW, what the hell kind of Honda's do you think are fast? :lmao:

and to all you guys who say "dont do it, its not worth it... oh shut up! we all know its not gonna turn our trucks into a McLaren F1 or Bugatti Veyron or even a Supra. but it will add power and sure maybe that alone wont be noticeable but then again was your deck-plate mod noticeable!? yeah didnt think so cause i know my cold air intake wasnt and they add about the same hp. but when you start doing little things like that and combining them, cold air/deck-plate + cat back + headers, it will be noticeable over stock, and again while yes it wont be fast it will have more power to help turn those bigger tires we all have or the extra weight we all carry around in bumpers and armor and racks ect. so stop being Negative Nancey's and dont hate

AMEN! My LCE headers, high flow cat, and 2.5 exhaust, coupled with my K&N intake, sure helped my truck! My biggest power gain was from the headers, too! Absolutely worth it!

No hate, just my 2 cents. I think that $400-$500 for a mod that will only gain a few HP is a poor investment. In the performance car world, a mod that costs more than $10 per HP ($20 on the high side) is generally considered a poor investment. Headers will cost about $60 per HP, and that is pretty expensive. If you want to make a real difference, put the S/C (or nitrous) on it. You'll get a lot more bang for your buck (though still get beat by the Civic). Headers might make it sound faster but performance and fuel economy gains will not be noticeable to most people. It might 'seem' faster but that is probably mostly psychological (like people who say those tornado intake things make their car faster and get better mileage, even though scientific tests have shown they make no difference at all), or the open air filters on the boy racers that make lots of noise but no real performance difference.

Headers generally don't make much of a difference on modern fuel injected cars (though there are some exceptions, such as a high-performance build with bigger cams). 'Back in the day' a set of headers would add 30 HP or more to a stock small-block Chevy (heads and manifolds were that bad back then!). But today, with exhaust system design much better, better heads, and fuel injection, headers generally don't make that kind of bolt-on difference any more. On a typical LS1, headers will gain less than 20 HP. 8 HP on a 3.4 is probably about right, and that ain't much for $500.

And I definitely wouldn't spend the money on headers if I had a S/C on the motor. Superchargers force feed the air/fuel and purge the exhaust better than headers will do. On 03/04 4.6L Cobra Mustangs, dyno tests have shown that headers make very little difference (like 10-15 HP on a 500 HP motor) until the motor is making over about 600 HP. Unless your supercharged 3.4 is making about 375 HP you shouldn't need headers.

A cat-back exhaust would probably make about as much difference for less money and lot easier to put on.

My first mod to my 4Runner ever was a set of LC Engineering headers.

Now, you and your domestic motors may not have felt so happy with their lack of extra power, but you can't just go with headers, The whole exhaust needs to be changed. I definitely noticed a gain. High end was a dream compared to before. After 2.5" High flow cat and matching exhaust, you can certainly tell the difference, especially mid-high powerband. The torque was never amazing for this motor, so at 2-3k, it's boring. A kick happens, then the motor's extra horsepower shows it's magic. Don't get me wrong, it's still slower than an elephant, but it's faster than stock.

Don't even bullsh-t around, I spent about $300 on my header, and my upgraded exhaust would be useless as stock without it. You can open up whatever the hell you want with catback, but the exhaust will still be restricted at the header. Restricting your exhaust anywhere in the system ruins whatever exhaust mods you have, so I have learned.

So, headers alone, yes, 5 extra horsepower worth of pointless. A whole exhaust system, though, very functional (especially on the 3RZ, I will take as much HP as I can get!). So what if it's expensive? $300 is a lot cheaper than $2000 for an S/C! It's not like we can't get an S/C afterwards, and I GUARANTEE that you'll expect larger gains with the S/C and headers together!

Then again, I'm about to take my LC Engineering headers off for good, once I get myself a nice shiny turbo manifold!

 

[Clemsonfan15]

Thanks for all the input.



I already have catback exhaust in form of flowmaster, I also have a K&N cold air intake. I hope the headers compliment the setup well.

Since when did Flowmaster start making a cat back exhaust system for the 4runner?

 

[BrianSD_42]

So, headers alone, yes, 5 extra horsepower worth of pointless. A whole exhaust system, though, very functional

Agreed. I'll let you know how it goes when I get my truck back this Friday.

If you haven't already, REFER TO the Dyno chart listed on the 1st page. That is from Doug Thorley but it pretty clearly shows the Dyno of 3 different setups on a year 2000 3.4L 4Runner.

1st setup. all stock
2nd setup. headers with stock intake and exhaust
3rd setup. headers with aftermarket exhaust and cold-air intake.

the chart shows both the difference in torque and HP. I think what is most beneficial is the low end torque.

:AK47:

 

[BrianSD_42]

Since when did Flowmaster start making a cat back exhaust system for the 4runner?

Flowmaster is just the muffler but mine is mounted with new pipe and tip. It starts after the CAT, correct? I don't see the difference between adding a flowmaster + new pipe + tip AND say adding a TRD "cat back" system.

The term "complete cat back setup" seems likes a marketing statement to me. IMO if you redo your exhaust as I have stated then you have a new exhaust system from the CAT back to tip.

 

[98OzarksRunner]

Don't even bullsh-t around, I spent about $300 on my header, and my upgraded exhaust would be useless as stock without it. You can open up whatever the hell you want with catback, but the exhaust will still be restricted at the header. Restricting your exhaust anywhere in the system ruins whatever exhaust mods you have, so I have learned.

So, headers alone, yes, 5 extra horsepower worth of pointless. A whole exhaust system, though, very functional (especially on the 3RZ, I will take as much HP as I can get!). So what if it's expensive? $300 is a lot cheaper than $2000 for an S/C! It's not like we can't get an S/C afterwards, and I GUARANTEE that you'll expect larger gains with the S/C and headers together!

I believe the graph on the first page showed 10.6 HP gain with headers and cat back, and 7.4 HP with headers and stock exhaust on a N/A motor (pretty much what can be expected of a domestic motor, as though where a motor is made determines the physics of combustion). That's still not much gain for $400 headers plus cat back (another $200-300?), and your high-flow cat ($150-200?). You could have close to a grand in it even if you installed everything yourself. That, again, is a lot of money for 11 HP. That works out to nearly $100 per HP. I didn't say headers were a bad idea; I just said they weren't a good bang for the buck. You're at half the price of a (used ??) S/C and get 1/6 the performance gain.

On a 4200# truck, 11 HP will get you about 3/10 of a second in the quarter mile (out of 17 seconds). You might feel that in the seat but it's not likely. If the truck ran 12 seconds you'd notice the difference, but at 17 seconds a 3/10 gain will only show up on the clock.

 

[the great him]

No hate, just my 2 cents. I think that $400-$500 for a mod that will only gain a few HP is a poor investment. In the performance car world, a mod that costs more than $10 per HP ($20 on the high side) is generally considered a poor investment. Headers will cost about $60 per HP, and that is pretty expensive. If you want to make a real difference, put the S/C (or nitrous) on it. You'll get a lot more bang for your buck (though still get beat by the Civic). Headers might make it sound faster but performance and fuel economy gains will not be noticeable to most people. It might 'seem' faster but that is probably mostly psychological (like people who say those tornado intake things make their car faster and get better mileage, even though scientific tests have shown they make no difference at all), or the open air filters on the boy racers that make lots of noise but no real performance difference.

Headers generally don't make much of a difference on modern fuel injected cars (though there are some exceptions, such as a high-performance build with bigger cams). 'Back in the day' a set of headers would add 30 HP or more to a stock small-block Chevy (heads and manifolds were that bad back then!). But today, with exhaust system design much better, better heads, and fuel injection, headers generally don't make that kind of bolt-on difference any more. On a typical LS1, headers will gain less than 20 HP. 8 HP on a 3.4 is probably about right, and that ain't much for $500.

And I definitely wouldn't spend the money on headers if I had a S/C on the motor. Superchargers force feed the air/fuel and purge the exhaust better than headers will do. On 03/04 4.6L Cobra Mustangs, dyno tests have shown that headers make very little difference (like 10-15 HP on a 500 HP motor) until the motor is making over about 600 HP. Unless your supercharged 3.4 is making about 375 HP you shouldn't need headers.

A cat-back exhaust would probably make about as much difference for less money and lot easier to put on.

are you for real man!? when you are talking about 500hp and the headers only adding 10-15hp yeah you are talking about a .02-.03 % of the gain, then yeah i would start to see your point but our 3.4 motors will never make that kinda power(even with a SC we are talking about a motor that from the factory had less than 170hp... that 8-10 hp will be a much bigger increase percentage wise... besides ridiing or driveing a car with 500hp or 600hp, unless you are a professional driver and dealing with timed tracks you wont be able to tell me which one is which, they will both just be "fast" trust me.

and nitrous you say!? now i know your kidding you cant use a nitrous set up in one of these or most any mortor for that mater and expect any kinda reliability or longevity from it. you will need to "beef up" some of the internal components... nitrous is just a bad idea all around, i know ive run it in my old malibu and it would blow sh!t up all the time. besides you only have so much of that stuff then your out and you have to go and have it refiled, not to mention the legalitys of that idea.

and a SC runner tuned right will beat a civic with the same amount of $$$ put in it sorry but the civic or integra or sentra would never stand a chance in a strait line. check out youtube if you dont believe me

 

[the great him]

I believe the graph on the first page showed 10.6 HP gain with headers and cat back, and 7.4 HP with headers and stock exhaust on a N/A motor (pretty much what can be expected of a domestic motor, as though where a motor is made determines the physics of combustion). That's still not much gain for $400 headers plus cat back (another $200-300?), and your high-flow cat ($150-200?). You could have close to a grand in it even if you installed everything yourself. That, again, is a lot of money for 11 HP. That works out to nearly $100 per HP. I didn't say headers were a bad idea; I just said they weren't a good bang for the buck. You're at half the price of a (used ??) S/C and get 1/6 the performance gain.

On a 4200# truck, 11 HP will get you about 3/10 of a second in the quarter mile (out of 17 seconds). You might feel that in the seat but it's not likely. If the truck ran 12 seconds you'd notice the difference, but at 17 seconds a 3/10 gain will only show up on the clock.

where do you get the $1000 figure man!? $4-500 on the header, $80-100 on a muffler, another $80 for a cat, and maybe $40 for pipe? im at $720 thats if you go high end sure if you have a shop do it all then maybe a grand but not if you do it yourself... and again 99.9% of use dont race our trucks so that point is mute, we are doing this more for low and mid range punch and gains for day to day driving - freeway passing and pulling longer hills, and low end off road and trail -climbing over rocks and up hills, and occasional towing of small to mid sized trailers. again we know are trucks arent supras(though one or two of us think our rigs are quite "spunky") and we dont intend on trying to make them such.

 

[98OzarksRunner]

are you for real man!? when you are talking about 500hp and the headers only adding 10-15hp yeah you are talking about a .02-.03 % of the gain, then yeah i would start to see your point but our 3.4 motors will never make that kinda power

and nitrous you say!? now i know your kidding you cant use a nitrous set up in one of these or most any mortor for that mater and expect any kinda reliability or longevity from it. you will need to "beef up" some of the internal components... nitrous is just a bad idea all around, i know ive run it in my old malibu and it would blow sh!t up all the time. besides you only have so much of that stuff then your out and you have to go and have it refiled, not to mention the legalitys of that idea.

My point was that typically with a supercharger, headers make little difference (in real dyno testing) until the power level is very high because the supercharger forces air into the cylinders and forces out any remaining exhaust. On built N/A motors headers make a much larger difference since they don't have the S/C forcing the exhaust out and headers help purge the cylinders. Thus, the gains from headers on a supercharged 4Runner are also likely to be minimal, probably less than the 11 HP on a N/A motor, since the supercharger is already providing the purging gains the headers would provide. Granted, I don't have any experience with headers/superchargers on 4Runners (and can't find any before/after dyno sheets on the internet) but typically, supercharged engines don't get much from headers until they are making big power (which might be 275 HP for a 4Runner?).

I'm not suggesting nitrous on a 3.4 at all. I'm simply saying that if you really want horsepower, that is cheaper per HP than headers, but much more dangerous!

where do you get the $1000 figure man!? $4-500 on the header, $80-100 on a muffler, another $80 for a cat, and maybe $40 for pipe? im at $720 thats if you go high end sure if you have a shop do it all then maybe a grand but not if you do it yourself

I'm sorry, I was thinking cat-back system, like the $600 TRD or $350 JBA or the $600 MagnaFlow or at least getting mandrel-bent pipes. I was thinking a high-flow cat like a MagnaFlow ($90-200). I didn't think putting a Flowmaster on existing pipes was a 'cat-back'; I thought that was just a muffler.

and again 99.9% of use dont race our trucks so that point is mute, we are doing this more for low and mid range punch and gains for day to day driving - freeway passing and pulling longer hills, and low end off road and trail -climbing over rocks and up hills, and occasional towing of small to mid sized trailers. again we know are trucks arent supras(though one or two of us think our rigs are quite "spunky") and we dont intend on trying to make them such.

My point as well. 'Fast', 'speed', and 'power' are words I don't associate with my 4Runner at all so to me money will be better spent on off-road mods (when I get around to it). No offense, and I love 4Runners, but trying to make them 'spunky' is not real practical. It's kind of like Admiral Tom Connolly said of the F-111 back in the 1970s: ‘There isn’t enough thrust in all Christendom to make that airplane a fighter.’ Even the supercharger wouldn't really do enough for me to justify the cost. But we all spend our money how we please. If you've got all the goodies and have money to spend, go for it.

 

[ChildrenOfBodom]

Agreed with the kid.

10 or 15 extra horsepower doesn't mean sh-t on a C63 AMG with 451 hp, an SL65 AMG with 604 hp, or a Lamborghini Murcielago LP670-4 with 661 hp, but on my real world Toyota 4Runner with 150 horsepower, that's still a 10% power gain over stock.

And I do believe that the intake and exhaust modifications are more beneficial for the 3RZ engine. It is typically more powerful than the 5VZ in forced induction cases. The 3RZ 2.7 is also capable of over 1,000 hp on stock bottom end and has been proven in many applications. I once was giddy over swapping to a 5VZ, but after reading into a turbo setup, the 3RZ wins my vote.

So, I'll take my headers and run (til a turbo, duh), because it's definitely better than the stock cast manifold I got with my 3RZ.

 

[Duhockey]

where do you get the $1000 figure man!? $4-500 on the header, $80-100 on a muffler, another $80 for a cat, and maybe $40 for pipe? im at $720 thats if you go high end sure if you have a shop do it all then maybe a grand but not if you do it yourself... and again 99.9% of use dont race our trucks so that point is mute, we are doing this more for low and mid range punch and gains for day to day driving - freeway passing and pulling longer hills, and low end off road and trail -climbing over rocks and up hills, and occasional towing of small to mid sized trailers. again we know are trucks arent supras(though one or two of us think our rigs are quite "spunky") and we dont intend on trying to make them such.

I just bought a TRD catback full setup to send to FoneRunner for 200$,

I think even your estimates are high cuz MSRP for the whole system is 480$ for the TRD setup and thats from the Dealer.. that doesnt include Headers of course, but you can shop around...

And you are correct, gotta do it also to gain back the lost power from wind resistance (spare on the roof), armor (hundreds of pounds of armor from buds, belly pan and gas skid not to mention bumpers, the hundred or so pounds of gear I carry all the time and the prob 100lbs my storage box/sleeping platform weighs..

So for those that were saying that an intake or 10 hp doesnt help, they can kiss my you know what! LOL cuz I will take 3hp if you can give it to me cheap!

 

[the great him]

ill even take the power that the header gives me at full price. cause to me its worth it, there arent a lot of bolt on options for our trucks thats just the sad reality of it. and im not about to tear down the motor to put cams in it and have to get a custom made ECU that will work with them(yes i will eventually buy the LCE long block 5vze) and SC that but yeah thats a long ways down the road and A LOT of $$$ but i dont care, it will all be your tax dollars paying for it :guitar3::drummer::guitar2::banana:arty::AK47: :sniper:

 

[BrianSD_42]

hey the kid,
I like your posts and comments but that last one with 10 animated gifs just about made my droid-x start crying.

 

[the great him]

sorry man lol i love deployments. all that $$$ and tax free, its like Christmas 365 days a year...

 

[Nunyabiz]

Myself, if my exhaust started to need replacement I would opt for the headers along with the cat back etc.
The difference between quality headers Vs just putting back on stock I am sure is not much.

8hp and tork on an engine putting out just 183hp should be noticeable, especially the throttle response.
What I am looking for in my 4Runner is RELIABILITY and tork not speed and HP.

I could spend $3000 on supping up this 4 runner and my wifes 1999 Lexus dead stock would still blow it away. I am driving a 4 Runner not a Porsche.

 

[fightman80]

I agree with this guy^....We're not driving porches. lol! That being said, an easy mod, that gives you more throttle response is adjusting the throttle cable, and transmission kickdown cable! Mine seems like a whole new vehicle since doing that! I also recently changed my Pre-cat 02 Sensor, and that also improved my throttle response.

My advice, would be to do a complete tune-up, do the cable adjustments, and go from there. I know my truck accelerates a whole lot better now! I'm not trying to win the Daytona, but being able to keep up with traffic after leaving a stop light, is a plus! No more losing drag races to Grandma and her Dodge Caravan! lol! :lookout:

 

[1985taylor1925]

I agree with this guy^....We're not driving porches. lol! That being said, an easy mod, that gives you more throttle response is adjusting the throttle cable, and transmission kickdown cable! Mine seems like a whole new vehicle since doing that! I also recently changed my Pre-cat 02 Sensor, and that also improved my throttle response.

My advice, would be to do a complete tune-up, do the cable adjustments, and go from there. I know my truck accelerates a whole lot better now! I'm not trying to win the Daytona, but being able to keep up with traffic after leaving a stop light, is a plus! No more losing drag races to Grandma and her Dodge Caravan! lol! :lookout:

Hey, my runner thinks its a porche (ive have not told it yet that its slow). Dont spoil its fun. Its very sensitive

 

[Runnah]

Resurrection time. I can't start a new thread as I am a noob. I've been lurking for a couple of years though as I own an 03 Extcab Taco 3.4 m/t and ever since have wanted a t4r. That red coolant got in my blood. So now I just picked up a 96 SC 3.4 m/t with suspension mods that are pretty sweet.

Anyways I just got a line on a pair of headers that the owner had on a 00 limited manual. He's not sure the brand but thinks they are DTs. I wanted to post a picture to see if anyone could help ID. They don't look like the DT shorties and they have that triple flang. He wants $200 and the drive is 6hrs r/t. I know I can buy lower line ones for a few $ more so... I know some of you have seen a lot in your travels so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks and very glad to be here.

 

[MaineRunna]

I put the Doug Thorleys on and they fit well, but were still a tight fit even with the body off. I only did it because I was changing the body on my 97 to a rust free 98 and could only justify the expense by the fact that I had the body off, went to a stainless Magnaflow cat, will upgrade the rest of the exhaust when it rusts out and would totally regret not doing it if I come across a good deal on a supercharger.

 

[gamefreakgc]

Resurrection time. I can't start a new thread as I am a noob. I've been lurking for a couple of years though as I own an 03 Extcab Taco 3.4 m/t and ever since have wanted a t4r. That red coolant got in my blood. So now I just picked up a 96 SC 3.4 m/t with suspension mods that are pretty sweet.

Anyways I just got a line on a pair of headers that the owner had on a 00 limited manual. He's not sure the brand but thinks they are DTs. I wanted to post a picture to see if anyone could help ID. They don't look like the DT shorties and they have that triple flang. He wants $200 and the drive is 6hrs r/t. I know I can buy lower line ones for a few $ more so... I know some of you have seen a lot in your travels so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks and very glad to be here.

I have no idea what brand those are. I'd be wary of fitment. They are not Doug Thorley, OBX, or TRD headers, those are the only brands I know of.

 

[RrCoX22]

well it's good you brought this up to know the options for the wife's 4runner now