Anyone running aftermarket rear bumper without body lift?

[Sup41]

Alright...so I'm looking at either the shock or innovations aftermarket rear bumper with swing away / gas can. I was minutes from pulling the trigger when I came across some concerning info while researching. I read that if you rock the bumper without special body mounts and even 1" lift, you're going to ding the shit out of your body. Apparently the rear frame of the vehicle is super weak?

I suppose my question is this: How important is this? Is it something I could get away with without the lift? Or am I just gonna regret it...

If anyone has any knowledge on the subject..would really appreciate it!

 

[Rimcrew]

For $75, this is cheap insurance:

Rear 4Runner Polyurethane Body Mounts (Pair) - $75.00 : Sonoran Steel, Sonoran Steel Custom Metal Fabrication L.L.C. Custom Toyota Truck Parts

 

[Aznwolf118]

currently running a CBI offroad dual swing out and sonoran steel body mounts.

No problems with that set up.

 

[Road Bull]

It's not issues with aftermarket bumpers, so much as it's issues with our rear frame. OEM bumpers are attached to the body and offer little in the way of actual protection without the addition of our trailer hitches. Those ARE connected to the frame and offer the only real protection to your vehicle.

As the 4runner pitches back and forth over uneven terrain, the frame actually flexes independently of the body. When you mount an aftermarket bumper, you are mounting it to the frame, and not the body. So the combination of naturally flex in the rear frame and the addition of a real bumper that is connected to that frame, instead of the body, needs to be firmed up. The stock rear body mounts are old and are not up to the task, even new. Pretty much anyone who has an aftermarket rear bumper, especially one with a swing out and other accessories, has swapped out the rear body mounts for the Sonoran Steel Rear 4Runner Polyurethane Body Mounts. Just factor it in to the cost of the bumper.

Rear 4Runner Polyurethane Body Mounts (Pair) - $75.00 : Sonoran Steel, Sonoran Steel Custom Metal Fabrication L.L.C. Custom Toyota Truck Parts

I just got done installing my 4X Innovations and really dig it. Also, with a rear bumper with swing out, you might want to look into picking up some rear springs that are up to the task of the additional weight.

ARB / OME 2861 (commonly referred to as 861s)

https://www.amazon.com/ARB-2861-Old...=UTF8&qid=1502954838&sr=1-1&keywords=ARB+2861

That's about it. Oh, and you don't need a body lift for these bumpers. But if you think that you are going to run one, then you would want to order one that accommodates a body lift.

 

[Tyler James Inc]

Nobody wants an ugly gap between the body and bumper- just get the rear body mounts that have been posted, and order the correct bumper [emoji1360]

 

[Sup41]

It's not issues with aftermarket bumpers, so much as it's issues with our rear frame. OEM bumpers are attached to the body and offer little in the way of actual protection without the addition of our trailer hitches. Those ARE connected to the frame and offer the only real protection to your vehicle.

As the 4runner pitches back and forth over uneven terrain, the frame actually flexes independently of the body. When you mount an aftermarket bumper, you are mounting it to the frame, and not the body. So the combination of naturally flex in the rear frame and the addition of a real bumper that is connected to that frame, instead of the body, needs to be firmed up. The stock rear body mounts are old and are not up to the task, even new. Pretty much anyone who has an aftermarket rear bumper, especially one with a swing out and other accessories, has swapped out the rear body mounts for the Sonoran Steel Rear 4Runner Polyurethane Body Mounts. Just factor it in to the cost of the bumper.

Rear 4Runner Polyurethane Body Mounts (Pair) - $75.00 : Sonoran Steel, Sonoran Steel Custom Metal Fabrication L.L.C. Custom Toyota Truck Parts

I just got done installing my 4X Innovations and really dig it. Also, with a rear bumper with swing out, you might want to look into picking up some rear springs that are up to the task of the additional weight.

ARB / OME 2861 (commonly referred to as 861s)

https://www.amazon.com/ARB-2861-Old...=UTF8&qid=1502954838&sr=1-1&keywords=ARB+2861

That's about it. Oh, and you don't need a body lift for these bumpers. But if you think that you are going to run one, then you would want to order one that accommodates a body lift.

Nice! Super great info. Thank you. I guess I'm wondering how hard it is to replace the body mounts? And as I just doing it in the rear?

 

[Scramble]

Nice! Super great info. Thank you. I guess I'm wondering how hard it is to replace the body mounts? And as I just doing it in the rear?

It's just the rear 2. They're much easier to get to if you have the stock bumper removed. Since you're in Cali it shouldn't be too hard. Use a 6pt 14mm box end.

 

[phattyduck]

Apparently the rear frame of the vehicle is super weak?

The frame isn't any weaker than any other light duty boxed frames. The issues is the rear pair of body mounts are very soft and all suspension forces in the rear are behind the c-pillar mounts. Stiffer body mounts, like others have posted will fix the issue.

On a truck, the bed just flexes with the frame and you don't notice it like you do on a 4Runner.

-Charlie

 

[sleepydad]

I have the innovations rear

http://i.imgur.com/PogUuJY.jpg

I did replace all of my old body mounts with new Toyota body mounts. I also added a couple of flat washers between the bumper and the frame where each bolt holds the bumper to the frame.

when I compared the old rear body mounts to the new ones, the old ones had compressed 1/4" or so over the last 17 years of service.

I did have trouble with the rear fender pinch welds hitting the new bumper when I was off road, replacing the body mounts with new stock and adding the flat washer has fixed that issue.

I'm not a huge fan of body lifts, but I can see why people do it.

 

[ChildrenOfBodom]

I just got new Energy Suspension body mount bushings and they've reduced the body/frame flex incredibly. My CBI was rubbing a bit and same with the shrockworks up front. No more rubbing.

8.4111 is the part number for 96-99 4Runners Body Mount Bushings Kit - Toyota 4Runner - 8.4111
8.4110 is the part number for 00-02 4Runners Body Mount Bushings Kit - Toyota 4Runner - 8.4110

 

[maxvert]

I just got new Energy Suspension body mount bushings and they've reduced the body/frame flex incredibly. My CBI was rubbing a bit and same with the shrockworks up front. No more rubbing.

So do you think that the rear bushings in this set are stiff enough to
prevent the rear bumper / body interference ?

Max

 

[Sup41]

I just got new Energy Suspension body mount bushings and they've reduced the body/frame flex incredibly. My CBI was rubbing a bit and same with the shrockworks up front. No more rubbing.

8.4111 is the part number for 96-99 4Runners Body Mount Bushings Kit - Toyota 4Runner - 8.4111
8.4110 is the part number for 00-02 4Runners Body Mount Bushings Kit - Toyota 4Runner - 8.4110

Yeah I 2nd Max's attempt to quote you above ^^ lol. Do you think the steel mounts are sufficient?

also, you got any resources on the HOW of this project? I keep digging and can't find shit in the forum. (Watch someone find something super obvious :laser::wave Scale 1-10 how hard was replacing everything?Mega tools required or basics sufficient?

 

[Sup41]

eel Custom Metal Fabrication L.L.C. Custom Toyota Truck Parts[/url]

I just got done installing my 4X Innovations and really dig it. Also, with a rear bumper with swing out, you might want to look into picking up some rear springs that are up to the task of the additional weight.

ARB / OME 2861 (commonly referred to as 861s)

https://www.amazon.com/ARB-2861-Old...=UTF8&qid=1502954838&sr=1-1&keywords=ARB+2861

accommodates a body lift.

Thanks a lot!! Great info once again. What shocks are you running and are they sufficient? I'd like to match my front eibach / toytecs that are about 3.5"

 

[Road Bull]

Thanks a lot!! Great info once again. What shocks are you running and are they sufficient? I'd like to match my front eibach / toytecs that are about 3.5"

I like my LC ( Land Cruiser ) shocks. They are a capable, quality, and inexpensive option. Many use this combination, 861s, Tokico black land cruiser shocks, SS solid body mounts, and add bumper of your choice = success.

There are other options, some more expensive or performance driven. Ask yourself how you plan to use them. For instance, maybe the Tokicos aren't for you if you want to drive fast off road. Your options are as endless if your money is endless. The Tokicos are also simple and don't have external reservoirs that might interfere with suspension or panhard bar articulation which can be a major headache after spending big pile of money.

 

[kolelt]

A lot of people run bumpers without body lifts. You do not need a body lift for aftermarket bumpers. It's fine for me.

 

[DK327]

Also, with a rear bumper with swing out, you might want to look into picking up some rear springs that are up to the task of the additional weight.

ARB / OME 2861 (commonly referred to as 861s)

https://www.amazon.com/ARB-2861-Old...=UTF8&qid=1502954838&sr=1-1&keywords=ARB+2861

That's about it.

About 10K miles ago I replaced my rear springs with a pair of H&R's which restored the ride height. I've since installed AIR LIFT 60743 1000 Series Rear Air Spring Kit, do I still need upgraded springs you think?

 

[Sean K.]

Nobody wants an ugly gap between the body and bumper- just get the rear body mounts that have been posted, and order the correct bumper [emoji1360]

No real need to have the gap....just build the appropriate height bumpers/sliders and move everything up. Drivetrain lift would be nice while you're at it......

 

[Road Bull]

About 10K miles ago I replaced my rear springs with a pair of H&R's which restored the ride height. I've since installed AIR LIFT 60743 1000 Series Rear Air Spring Kit, do I still need upgraded springs you think?

It really is up to you. If you have a heavy rear bumper, it will start to compress your springs a bit over time. I like a raked stance myself. I had LC 7 wraps before my bumper. I probably could have left it like that for a while, but once you start loading up your rig and throw in tools, gas, hi-lift, blah, blah, blah... it will accelerate rear end sag. So rake might turn into just level, while if you start off level, then add cargo and or people, then you might have negative rake. I am not saying the 861s are for everyone, or the only solution. There are people that run other springs, LC 7/8/or 9 wraps, 906 coils and so on. But, they seem to be the go-to spring for doing a 3"+ lift in the rear that handle aftermarket off road bumpers and additional weight.

You could always try out what you got and then reassess your needs down the road. It isn't that hard to swap them out for something else.

 

[kolelt]

It really is up to you. If you have a heavy rear bumper, it will start to compress your springs a bit over time. I like a raked stance myself. I had LC 7 wraps before my bumper. I probably could have left it like that for a while, but once you start loading up your rig and throw in tools, gas, hi-lift, blah, blah, blah... it will accelerate rear end sag. So rake might turn into just level, while if you start off level, then add cargo and or people, then you might have negative rake. I am not saying the 861s are for everyone, or the only solution. There are people that run other springs, LC 7/8/or 9 wraps, 906 coils and so on. But, they seem to be the go-to spring for doing a 3"+ lift in the rear that handle aftermarket off road bumpers and additional weight.

You could always try out what you got and then reassess your needs down the road. It isn't that hard to swap them out for something else.

I agree with you. Started it with superflex rear coils. Now I'm with OME 861. And I'm going to add one 10mm OME spacer with one 5mm OME spacer per each side. It's less then a inch. Which should be good. Running full armor, and stuff on roof rack with a custom storage box. Yeaaah. Loaded

 

[Sup41]

I have the innovations rear

http://i.imgur.com/PogUuJY.jpg

I did replace all of my old body mounts with new Toyota body mounts. I also added a couple of flat washers between the bumper and the frame where each bolt holds the bumper to the frame.

when I compared the old rear body mounts to the new ones, the old ones had compressed 1/4" or so over the last 17 years of service.

I did have trouble with the rear fender pinch welds hitting the new bumper when I was off road, replacing the body mounts with new stock and adding the flat washer has fixed that issue.

I'm not a huge fan of body lifts, but I can see why people do it.

When you say "a couple flat washers" is that for each bolt or just 1 washer per bolt?