Beastmobile
New member
Does anyone run Mobil 1 10w-40. Would that be bad in warm climate like Florida
Anyone using 0W20?
- Thread starter CookieRoe
- Start date
RedSled
New member
I use Rotella T6 5-40
There's no reason to use 10W30 when 5W30 is readily available. There's no reason to use *W40 either.
Engines are lubricated by pumping oil around. If the oil is too thick, it's hard to pump, so there is less oil flow but more oil pressure. If it's too thin it's too easy to pump, so there is low oil pressure and maybe not enough flow. Oil flow is what keeps the engine lubricated, not pressure. It's easier to sense pressure, so that's why you have an oil pressure light not an oil flow light.
The first number is the viscosity range when cold, and the second number is the range when hot. but you can't compare the first number to the second numerically because it's a different scale.
The second number defines the viscosity range at operating temperature. Here's the viscosity range in cSt at 100C:
20: 5.6-9.3
30: 9.3-12.5
40: 12.5-16.3
The first number is the viscosity when cold, but it is always much higher than the hot viscosity even for 0W oil. There is no oil that's too thin when it's cold. 0W* oil is never too thin as long as the hot viscosity range is correct.
Some examples at 40C (a hot summer day, but still cold as far as the engine is concerned):
Mobil 1 0W20: 44.3 cSt
Mobil 1 5W30: 61.7 cSt
Mobil 1 10W30: 63.2 cSt
Mobil 1 10W40: 95.9 cSt
Rotella T6 5W40: 87 cSt
I don't understand the appeal of Rotalla T6. It's diesel engine oil that happens to work in gas engines, too. Why not get something designed for gas engines?
Toyota originally recommended 5W30 for this engine, but synthetic oils have come down in price since the engine was designed. There's a TSB that retroactively allows 5W20 but not 0W20 for some reason. They are in the same viscosity range when hot, but 0W20 is better (closer to operating viscosity but still too thick) when cold.
Oil that's thinner when cold is easier to pump, so it lubricates the engine better. If you use Rotella T6 or 10W40 and accelerate hard before the oil is full warmed up, some parts of the engine might not get as much oil as they need.
You might be able to get by with 10W40 in Florida, but there is no downside that I know of to running something like 0W20 or 5W30 in a hot climate. The cooling system keeps the engine around the same temperature no matter what. And if it happens to get hotter, many oils will actually get more viscous since the viscosity curve is often at a minimum around 100C.
In a cold climate 10W40 would be bad. The pour point is only -33C, so if it gets colder than that, which it does in some places, you oil will literally solidify. Your engine might start, but it will be running without much oil until it warms up.
Around here it might hit -10F a couple times a year, and -20 is not unheard of.
Source: Motor Oil 101 - Bob is the Oil Guy - Bob is the Oil Guy
Engines are lubricated by pumping oil around. If the oil is too thick, it's hard to pump, so there is less oil flow but more oil pressure. If it's too thin it's too easy to pump, so there is low oil pressure and maybe not enough flow. Oil flow is what keeps the engine lubricated, not pressure. It's easier to sense pressure, so that's why you have an oil pressure light not an oil flow light.
The first number is the viscosity range when cold, and the second number is the range when hot. but you can't compare the first number to the second numerically because it's a different scale.
The second number defines the viscosity range at operating temperature. Here's the viscosity range in cSt at 100C:
20: 5.6-9.3
30: 9.3-12.5
40: 12.5-16.3
The first number is the viscosity when cold, but it is always much higher than the hot viscosity even for 0W oil. There is no oil that's too thin when it's cold. 0W* oil is never too thin as long as the hot viscosity range is correct.
Some examples at 40C (a hot summer day, but still cold as far as the engine is concerned):
Mobil 1 0W20: 44.3 cSt
Mobil 1 5W30: 61.7 cSt
Mobil 1 10W30: 63.2 cSt
Mobil 1 10W40: 95.9 cSt
Rotella T6 5W40: 87 cSt
I don't understand the appeal of Rotalla T6. It's diesel engine oil that happens to work in gas engines, too. Why not get something designed for gas engines?
Toyota originally recommended 5W30 for this engine, but synthetic oils have come down in price since the engine was designed. There's a TSB that retroactively allows 5W20 but not 0W20 for some reason. They are in the same viscosity range when hot, but 0W20 is better (closer to operating viscosity but still too thick) when cold.
Oil that's thinner when cold is easier to pump, so it lubricates the engine better. If you use Rotella T6 or 10W40 and accelerate hard before the oil is full warmed up, some parts of the engine might not get as much oil as they need.
You might be able to get by with 10W40 in Florida, but there is no downside that I know of to running something like 0W20 or 5W30 in a hot climate. The cooling system keeps the engine around the same temperature no matter what. And if it happens to get hotter, many oils will actually get more viscous since the viscosity curve is often at a minimum around 100C.
In a cold climate 10W40 would be bad. The pour point is only -33C, so if it gets colder than that, which it does in some places, you oil will literally solidify. Your engine might start, but it will be running without much oil until it warms up.
Around here it might hit -10F a couple times a year, and -20 is not unheard of.
Source: Motor Oil 101 - Bob is the Oil Guy - Bob is the Oil Guy
More info on it...
Another Toy oil chart here, 2009-2014:
http://gp1cc.com/Toyota-Engine-Oil-Guide.pdf
Both Toyota/Lexus charts together:
Toyota Oil Chart
Toyota view on 0w-20:
What are the oil change intervals using synthetic oil?
UPDATE:
Ok' heres another link I hit about the 20w oils?
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/518/motor-oils
*
Another Toy oil chart here, 2009-2014:
http://gp1cc.com/Toyota-Engine-Oil-Guide.pdf
Both Toyota/Lexus charts together:
Toyota Oil Chart
Toyota view on 0w-20:
What are the oil change intervals using synthetic oil?
UPDATE:
Ok' heres another link I hit about the 20w oils?
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/518/motor-oils
*
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BlackWorksInc
New member
Something else to note that people don't seem to realize is that not all 5w-30 oils are equal.
5w-30 simply means that at their measured extreme ranges the oil will be roughly those weights. At varying temperatures, depending on it's design it can be much different in between. This is why MANY VW 502.00 oils tend to show up as "5w-30" or "5w-40" but the rating is inconsequential to the oil specified by VW, because their 504.00 diesel oil is also often sold as a 5w-30 or 5w-40. But if you run that oil in a 502.00 spec'd vehicle you're going to have problems and vice versa because the additives and flow characteristics of those oils is vastly different.
What does all that have to do with running 5w-30, 5w-20, or 0w-20 in your vehicle? Well, the engine was designed for an SAE 5w-30 oil that meets API Rating SN or better. Running oil that deviates from specification means that the oil will not have the same flow characteristics that the engine was designed for and could cause issues in the near or far future (VVTi equipped vehicles can be more sensitive to non-specified oils, though most Toyotas seem to be more forgiving than other vehicles I have seen in that respect). The variance between a 5w-20 oil and a 5w-30 oil is not as straight forward as you would think; hell you could grab a half dozen 5w-30's and they'll all flow different than each other at varying temperatures and needs. Oil, like other fluids in the vehicle have gotten far more complicated than they were a few decades ago; back in the old days you'd just throw a thicker or thinner oil in the vehicle because you felt it would help, these days that could be inviting more issues than simply running what the vehicle was designed for.
Some interesting videos for similar 5w-30 oils being test for flow at cold temperatures:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX7RTLn_QCE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ_vxdO_9nc
Note- That's just a static flow test at a cold temperature, in my post I am mainly referring to the dynamic flow of the oil; but the videos show the variance I am talking about at even a basic level.
5w-30 simply means that at their measured extreme ranges the oil will be roughly those weights. At varying temperatures, depending on it's design it can be much different in between. This is why MANY VW 502.00 oils tend to show up as "5w-30" or "5w-40" but the rating is inconsequential to the oil specified by VW, because their 504.00 diesel oil is also often sold as a 5w-30 or 5w-40. But if you run that oil in a 502.00 spec'd vehicle you're going to have problems and vice versa because the additives and flow characteristics of those oils is vastly different.
What does all that have to do with running 5w-30, 5w-20, or 0w-20 in your vehicle? Well, the engine was designed for an SAE 5w-30 oil that meets API Rating SN or better. Running oil that deviates from specification means that the oil will not have the same flow characteristics that the engine was designed for and could cause issues in the near or far future (VVTi equipped vehicles can be more sensitive to non-specified oils, though most Toyotas seem to be more forgiving than other vehicles I have seen in that respect). The variance between a 5w-20 oil and a 5w-30 oil is not as straight forward as you would think; hell you could grab a half dozen 5w-30's and they'll all flow different than each other at varying temperatures and needs. Oil, like other fluids in the vehicle have gotten far more complicated than they were a few decades ago; back in the old days you'd just throw a thicker or thinner oil in the vehicle because you felt it would help, these days that could be inviting more issues than simply running what the vehicle was designed for.
Some interesting videos for similar 5w-30 oils being test for flow at cold temperatures:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX7RTLn_QCE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ_vxdO_9nc
Note- That's just a static flow test at a cold temperature, in my post I am mainly referring to the dynamic flow of the oil; but the videos show the variance I am talking about at even a basic level.
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I've read the ideas and theorycrafting but I would still have to recommend following Toyota's guidelines for the vehicle. If you're really sold on trying different oils in your truck, I would suggest getting oil samples analyzed periodically.
These guys are pretty affordable and do a good job: Blackstone Labs
With that said, a lot of the logic being discussed sounds practical to me. I'm just too much of a wimp to "try it" on my ride.
These guys are pretty affordable and do a good job: Blackstone Labs
With that said, a lot of the logic being discussed sounds practical to me. I'm just too much of a wimp to "try it" on my ride.
Ralph Blake
Member
The experts on cold weather engine Lubs, and weights to use is the people at Mobil1. Maybe it's time to call them and get the correct answers.
07V8
Member
0W-20 is an absolute pathetic attempt to gain efficiency in an engine. The idea is that less viscosity will reduce the amount energy required to make everything move. I have not spoken to one automotive, mechanical, or chemical engineer that praise 0W-20 oil in any application.
0W-20 is an agenda forced upon manufacturers by the government and their efficiency mandates. Putting it in your engine hoping for a measurable increase in mileage is pointless.
0W-20 is an agenda forced upon manufacturers by the government and their efficiency mandates. Putting it in your engine hoping for a measurable increase in mileage is pointless.
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BlackWorksInc
New member
I agree with that, it does allow for tighter tolerances and so on; but since it seems to be mainly used to try and eek out fuel efficiency... I'd say it's up there with Ethanol in terms of "good ideas".
CookieRoe
Senior Member
I agree. So then, how is it working for you? Anything to report? If not, I guess that is good thing?
I thought I posted an update somewhere, but I can't find it.
I ran M1 0W20 EP from April to November 2015, 5353 miles. I had a UOA done, and it was basically perfect, but I later learned that since I was using a really good filter (Mobil 1 EP), UOA is not a good indicator of engine wear. It is just good for checking the condition of the oil, and I would need a filter washdown or something like that to measure the total particles caught it it.
I didn't notice much of a difference in anything using 0W20. Throttle might be a bit more responsive when the engine was cold. Gas mileage was not measurably better. I would guess maybe 0.5mpg better, which is much less than the tank to tank variation I see. Gas mileage has been lower this winter, but that could be because of winter gas, or because it's cold, or because I'm driving without regard to efficiency since it's so cheap.
4runner (Toyota 4Runner) | Fuelly
It's been idling rough when it's cold, and I can't figure that out. It might have gotten worse over the winter, but that might just be because it's been colder. I can't remember when it started vs when I first put in 0W20, but I know it has been worse recently (with 5W30) than while I was using 0W20.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/207713-rough-engine-sound-cold-mornings.html
I can try to get a better video if that would help.
I still have about 3-4 quarts of 0W20, so I might dump that in at the next oil change in a thousand miles to get rid of it and fill the rest with 5W30. I don't think it will hurt anything.
CookieRoe
Senior Member
Thanks for the update. Yes, I remember you gave an update, but I think you posted in the "what did you do with your 4Runner today........" thread. Anyway, all I care about is protection. I don't expect fuel economy to change. I currently use 5w20 (mobile1), which is to say almost the same as 0W20 (what Toyota uses on the 1GRFE now........ not our particular GR, but close enough).
All I care about it protection and "cleaning the motor innards clean".
If you can post a video, sure not why? LOL
All I care about it protection and "cleaning the motor innards clean".
If you can post a video, sure not why? LOL
Bossman
Senior Member
After using Mobil 1 5W30 for many years in my (now traded-in) 03 Limited V8, I'll now be using the Mobil 1 0W20 Advanced Fuel Economy (as [MENTION=50507]CookieRoe[/MENTION] has pictured above) in my new-to-me 2011 Limited V6.
First oil/filter change using this 0W20 coming up this week. Will await to see how it handles the cold Canadian winter start-ups.
First oil/filter change using this 0W20 coming up this week. Will await to see how it handles the cold Canadian winter start-ups.
CookieRoe
Senior Member
I ran 5w20 in my 07 Civic for years until I changed over to 0w20 a couple of years ago. I did notice ZERO ticking at start up (ticked a little at startup when it was very cold.... anything below 30 degrees). I can't say for sure if the oil is doing a better job at protecting the motor, I'm sure it has to be. Anyway, I figure it can't hurt to try on the runner. From what I understand, Toyota engines are pretty forgiving when it comes to oils. These aren't BMW M motors.
I decided to try this weight oil for better cold startup protection. Nothing else. The "Advanced Fuel Economy" text on the bottle is laughable.
Bossman
Senior Member
The 0W20 is the recommended weight for 2011 4Runners - and the Mobil 1 website says this Advanced Fuel Economy gives "exceptional start-up protection in cold temperatures."
You mean I won't see double-digit increases in fuel economy using this oil
I bought it mainly for the NASCAR symbol on the front
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