Apparently Toytec isn't a "true" suspension lift

[MStudt]

It's amazing what people will tell you in order to buy their shit!

 

[MojaveMadMan]

OP, as a few people have said, they are BSing you and just trying to sell you something you probably don't need. If you call any company and say "I have $6K, want it" they are going to tell you anything to get it from you. While ToyTec is a bunch of parts pieced together for the 4runner, it is still a suspension lift and still decent.

Lets be constructive here. What are you looking for out of your rig? Why are you stuck on 35" tires? What type off off-roading are you doing and what kind of load do you want to carry? There are a lot of smart people here, why not see what a few people have to say instead of one salesman... Unless you are planning on smashing whoops at 60 mph I have a feeling you will not be needing a long travel kit for that thing.

 

[Thorgan112]

OP, as a few people have said, they are BSing you and just trying to sell you something you probably don't need. If you call any company and say "I have $6K, want it" they are going to tell you anything to get it from you. While ToyTec is a bunch of parts pieced together for the 4runner, it is still a suspension lift and still decent.

Lets be constructive here. What are you looking for out of your rig? Why are you stuck on 35" tires? What type off off-roading are you doing and what kind of load do you want to carry? There are a lot of smart people here, why not see what a few people have to say instead of one salesman... Unless you are planning on smashing whoops at 60 mph I have a feeling you will not be needing a long travel kit for that thing.

So as I previously mentioned, I am looking to do some offroading out in virginia with my cousin from the navy. He goes on seem pretty tricky trails, and I want to be able to have no problem keeping up, or better yet being the lead. I completely agree with you on your point that any shop you wave 6k at will tell you whatever it is to get you there. However, the one I looked at and spoke to, does warranty their work, the employees prominently own toyotas, and from what I have heard, most of what they work on is toyotas, so all that gives me extra security in knowing that my rig will come out the right way.

I know people here have said I just need to do some trimming and bashing, but in all honesty, I have done a decent amount already, and even if I was able to get the tires to not rub at all, I would still probably only get a couple of inches at most of travel before rubbing or stuffing the well to its max. I am going to the shop on Sat to sit down and talk options with this guy and see what he recommends. I feel like I know enough to tell when someone is bs'ing me and when someone is authentic. I also got to get some more info on their "warranty" and see what it entails.

As far as load, I do have an aftermarket bumper in the front, I am purchasing one for the rear, I have savage offroad full set of skids, and also their sliders, so I have some additional weight on my rig.

The toytec rides a bit stiff for my liking as well, but that is because of my own doing because I have the coilovers near their max, not 100% but I'd say about 90%.

 

[MillerPKA]

Here's another one of those fake suspension lifts handling 35s ok.

 

[MStudt]

So as I previously mentioned, I am looking to do some offroading out in virginia with my cousin from the navy. He goes on seem pretty tricky trails, and I want to be able to have no problem keeping up, or better yet being the lead. I completely agree with you on your point that any shop you wave 6k at will tell you whatever it is to get you there. However, the one I looked at and spoke to, does warranty their work, the employees prominently own toyotas, and from what I have heard, most of what they work on is toyotas, so all that gives me extra security in knowing that my rig will come out the right way.

I know people here have said I just need to do some trimming and bashing, but in all honesty, I have done a decent amount already, and even if I was able to get the tires to not rub at all, I would still probably only get a couple of inches at most of travel before rubbing or stuffing the well to its max. I am going to the shop on Sat to sit down and talk options with this guy and see what he recommends. I feel like I know enough to tell when someone is bs'ing me and when someone is authentic. I also got to get some more info on their "warranty" and see what it entails.

As far as load, I do have an aftermarket bumper in the front, I am purchasing one for the rear, I have savage offroad full set of skids, and also their sliders, so I have some additional weight on my rig.

The toytec rides a bit stiff for my liking as well, but that is because of my own doing because I have the coilovers near their max, not 100% but I'd say about 90%.

The problem is that every vehicle is different. While you're running 285/75/16's and have had to do a fair amount of trimming. I'm also running 285/75/16's, haven't had to do any trimming at all, and I don't rub at all either! You can compare the 285's to 35's, and they're only 7% larger than the 285's. Something to think about with a long travel kit. While you have more travel you're still going to have the same wheel opening.

 

[GhostDog]

So as I previously mentioned, I am looking to do some offroading out in virginia with my cousin from the navy. He goes on seem pretty tricky trails, and I want to be able to have no problem keeping up, or better yet being the lead. I completely agree with you on your point that any shop you wave 6k at will tell you whatever it is to get you there. However, the one I looked at and spoke to, does warranty their work, the employees prominently own toyotas, and from what I have heard, most of what they work on is toyotas, so all that gives me extra security in knowing that my rig will come out the right way.

I know people here have said I just need to do some trimming and bashing, but in all honesty, I have done a decent amount already, and even if I was able to get the tires to not rub at all, I would still probably only get a couple of inches at most of travel before rubbing or stuffing the well to its max. I am going to the shop on Sat to sit down and talk options with this guy and see what he recommends. I feel like I know enough to tell when someone is bs'ing me and when someone is authentic. I also got to get some more info on their "warranty" and see what it entails.

As far as load, I do have an aftermarket bumper in the front, I am purchasing one for the rear, I have savage offroad full set of skids, and also their sliders, so I have some additional weight on my rig.

The toytec rides a bit stiff for my liking as well, but that is because of my own doing because I have the coilovers near their max, not 100% but I'd say about 90%.

You could get better help if we what kinda of off roading i.e. Rock crawling, dune riding, etc. Also what exactly are you looking for, better ride, more travel... What short comings have you experienced?

If you want more uptravel then it doesn't matter what suspension you get you will need to cut/ pound.

 

[Doc2012]

Clearance for 35s at ANY lift height.

Some cutting and welding. If you're not comfortable with it, take a trip to NC and I'll hook ya up.

4Runner on 35's... | Trails Less Traveled

 

[BlazeRunner]

I'll just leave this here...
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/108367-official-3rd-gen-4runners-35s-pic-thread.html

 

[scrap metal]

What kind of "wrangler" does he have?
Have you had a competition yet? Does he have lockers?
Does he have scratches on his wrangler?

Maybe you can "beat" him by saying, WOW! my 4runner only costs a 1/4 of what your Jeep costs and I can do everything you can do!

and then while you're on the freeway ask him how the wind noise is.

and then tell him to read this thread so I can internet bully him into submission.

 

[MojaveMadMan]

So as I previously mentioned, I am looking to do some offroading out in virginia with my cousin from the navy. He goes on seem pretty tricky trails, and I want to be able to have no problem keeping up, or better yet being the lead. I completely agree with you on your point that any shop you wave 6k at will tell you whatever it is to get you there. However, the one I looked at and spoke to, does warranty their work, the employees prominently own toyotas, and from what I have heard, most of what they work on is toyotas, so all that gives me extra security in knowing that my rig will come out the right way.

I know people here have said I just need to do some trimming and bashing, but in all honesty, I have done a decent amount already, and even if I was able to get the tires to not rub at all, I would still probably only get a couple of inches at most of travel before rubbing or stuffing the well to its max. I am going to the shop on Sat to sit down and talk options with this guy and see what he recommends. I feel like I know enough to tell when someone is bs'ing me and when someone is authentic. I also got to get some more info on their "warranty" and see what it entails.

As far as load, I do have an aftermarket bumper in the front, I am purchasing one for the rear, I have savage offroad full set of skids, and also their sliders, so I have some additional weight on my rig.

The toytec rides a bit stiff for my liking as well, but that is because of my own doing because I have the coilovers near their max, not 100% but I'd say about 90%.

That's helpful, more below...

Clearance for 35s at ANY lift height.

Some cutting and welding. If you're not comfortable with it, take a trip to NC and I'll hook ya up.

4Runner on 35's... | Trails Less Traveled

This right here!!! I used this guide to clearance mine for 285/75R16's. It is a little more complicated than this though. There is a huge variance in tire and wheel sizes, off sets, manufacturers, etc. With my 285's (33's) I was able to clearance the inner fender and trim my limited fender and they fit great with stock wheels. Then I bought SCS wheels with a 3.5" BS which pushed my tires out 1" on each side and now I am having to re-clearance in places because they swing differently (it's complicated, I can elaborate if you want). I just spent my evening last night clearing an extra section of inner fender out, and pushing the existing trim back another 1/2". Moral of this story, my 285's stuff all the way at full turn in either direction with no rubbing. Wanna do this with 35" tires, it can absolutely be done, you just need to get them on the wheels you are using, take the shocks off, compress and start trimming! This is for ANY setup, and you will absolutely want to do this with whatever route you decide to go if you don't want rubbing, especially a LT setup.

As far as options go, once you accept that you will be doing some trimming, there are a lot of shock options that I think will do exactly what you want, and can be specifically tailored for what you want. I do think you are right, ToyTec is probably not the best for what you want to do. It can be described a mild in some applications and when you start getting deep into some places I could see you wanting more. Check out Patio's Build. This is a great way to spend $6K, get an amazing ride quality that can handle anything you throw at it, and is 10 times more reliable and less drama then LT. LT adds a lot of stress to components that are not designed to take the extra leverage of longer a-arms. You will see your frame start to crack, CV's and axles will not last and will brake easier, you will have a lot of steering problems because these racks already have trouble with stock length suspension, and your rig will be wider making it less capable in smaller spaces. The whole point here is to get more wheel travel and better control. UCA's, and extended travel shocks will get you that wheel travel you are looking for, and having a bypass would allow you ultimate flexibility in control. The spring options are about limitless so you can get just the right rate, and you can adjust shock valving to allow softer springs to handle more weight (there are a lot of guides on youtube to help you figure this stuff out).

As for the shop and that stuff. Not to attack, but you let them tell you ToyTec wasn't a real suspension lift, so you are kind of gulable, or maybe they are just good at convincing. I worked professionally for a few off-road fab shops in San Diego for over 10 years. We specialized in LT and baja race trucks. I won't bash or name names, but one I worked for was very big in the baja sport, and the owner used to suck guys in just like you all the time. He would show people all of our over the top $100K trucks and say look we know what we are doing, and sell people things they didn't need. Sure, as a shop we knew our stuff and were very knowledgeable, but it allowed him to get all kinds of stuff into the doors. How else do you think these guys pay for the $100K trucks in the garage. I didn't stay there long because I didn't agree with some of the stuff like that, and learned a lot about what these shops do. I don't know the shop you re going to so I won't judge them, but just be careful of the dog an pony show, a lot of these guys are very good at roping people in.

 

[snivilous]

What everyone else said, essentially do your research. I've seen very experienced and experts on 4Runners on this forum who are flat out wrong since they never took an engineering course, and I've seen people who are engineers or taking classes who were wrong because they didn't understand what was going on either (hell I probably fall into that category a lot). Point is, do your research because even experts can be wrong, let alone some random dude, especially when marketing comes into play.

At least you're open to feedback and look for advice, the really annoying people are the ones too stupid to understand they're wrong.

 

[Thorgan112]

What kind of "wrangler" does he have?
Have you had a competition yet? Does he have lockers?
Does he have scratches on his wrangler?

Maybe you can "beat" him by saying, WOW! my 4runner only costs a 1/4 of what your Jeep costs and I can do everything you can do!

and then while you're on the freeway ask him how the wind noise is.

and then tell him to read this thread so I can internet bully him into submission.

He has a 2007 jku and has lockers and a fairly nice setup. I have not taken my t4r out with him yet, and I probably could keep up and be fine, but like I said, we get competitive and I like to far pass him when I can haha, nothing bad about a little sibling sibling rivalry lol. But you have very good points on all the down flaws to jeeps, plus their engines are horrible.

That's helpful, more below...

This right here!!! I used this guide to clearance mine for 285/75R16's. It is a little more complicated than this though. There is a huge variance in tire and wheel sizes, off sets, manufacturers, etc. With my 285's (33's) I was able to clearance the inner fender and trim my limited fender and they fit great with stock wheels. Then I bought SCS wheels with a 3.5" BS which pushed my tires out 1" on each side and now I am having to re-clearance in places because they swing differently (it's complicated, I can elaborate if you want). I just spent my evening last night clearing an extra section of inner fender out, and pushing the existing trim back another 1/2". Moral of this story, my 285's stuff all the way at full turn in either direction with no rubbing. Wanna do this with 35" tires, it can absolutely be done, you just need to get them on the wheels you are using, take the shocks off, compress and start trimming! This is for ANY setup, and you will absolutely want to do this with whatever route you decide to go if you don't want rubbing, especially a LT setup.



As far as options go, once you accept that you will be doing some trimming, there are a lot of shock options that I think will do exactly what you want, and can be specifically tailored for what you want. I do think you are right, ToyTec is probably not the best for what you want to do. It can be described a mild in some applications and when you start getting deep into some places I could see you wanting more. Check out Patio's Build. This is a great way to spend $6K, get an amazing ride quality that can handle anything you throw at it, and is 10 times more reliable and less drama then LT. LT adds a lot of stress to components that are not designed to take the extra leverage of longer a-arms. You will see your frame start to crack, CV's and axles will not last and will brake easier, you will have a lot of steering problems because these racks already have trouble with stock length suspension, and your rig will be wider making it less capable in smaller spaces. The whole point here is to get more wheel travel and better control. UCA's, and extended travel shocks will get you that wheel travel you are looking for, and having a bypass would allow you ultimate flexibility in control. The spring options are about limitless so you can get just the right rate, and you can adjust shock valving to allow softer springs to handle more weight (there are a lot of guides on youtube to help you figure this stuff out).



As for the shop and that stuff. Not to attack, but you let them tell you ToyTec wasn't a real suspension lift, so you are kind of gulable, or maybe they are just good at convincing. I worked professionally for a few off-road fab shops in San Diego for over 10 years. We specialized in LT and baja race trucks. I won't bash or name names, but one I worked for was very big in the baja sport, and the owner used to suck guys in just like you all the time. He would show people all of our over the top $100K trucks and say look we know what we are doing, and sell people things they didn't need. Sure, as a shop we knew our stuff and were very knowledgeable, but it allowed him to get all kinds of stuff into the doors. How else do you think these guys pay for the $100K trucks in the garage. I didn't stay there long because I didn't agree with some of the stuff like that, and learned a lot about what these shops do. I don't know the shop you re going to so I won't judge them, but just be careful of the dog an pony show, a lot of these guys are very good at roping people in.

I appreciate the thought out constructive criticism and advice! I'm definitely going to keep doing research before I make a decision. After I talk to the shop on Saturday I will see what they say and recommend and bring it back here to seek further advice!! I may be going about trimming and tubbing all wrong to be honest and maybe that's why I am having issues. I also have rims with backspacing! And a negative offset, so that probably isn't helping

What everyone else said, essentially do your research. I've seen very experienced and experts on 4Runners on this forum who are flat out wrong since they never took an engineering course, and I've seen people who are engineers or taking classes who were wrong because they didn't understand what was going on either (hell I probably fall into that category a lot). Point is, do your research because even experts can be wrong, let alone some random dude, especially when marketing comes into play.



At least you're open to feedback and look for advice, the really annoying people are the ones too stupid to understand they're wrong.

Yup I myself am an engineer, well a computer engineer but hell, you know how much math and science we have to know. But surely enough, plenty of this is puzzling to me. I learn something new everyday on here.

 

[Sierra946]

The **** are you guys talking about?

Dropping the entire front diff down and SASing as the only way to run 35s?

PLENTY of people here are running 35s, on IFS.

[MENTION=97873]Thorgan112[/MENTION]:

Get some adjustable Coilovers.

I highly recommend ICON Vehicle Dynamics.

Get on 4Crawlers website, order a 1.5" BL.

Order a set of 1.25" SpiderTraxx wheel spacers.


You might have to do a little BFH work to the firewall, but no biggie.

Next, get some bumpers so you don't have to trim your stock ones.


I'm running 315/75/16, stock 5 star rims, Danahoe Racing Coilovers (now ICON), 1.25" SpiderTraxx wheel spacers, and a 1.5" 4Crawler Body Lift.

NOW, I did trim my fenders for 37s. But it only helped with the 35s.

I never said you had to do any of that to fit 35's boss. I have 35's and didn't do any of that. Just a lot of work in the wheel well as you said.

 

[woodro]

i live on long island , don't have any personal experience with rms but couple of guys i know have used them before . most of the stuff the do is bolt on , lift kits on new trucks . i saw a couple trucks they lifted had blocks under the leaf spring , so i wouldn't put to much stock into what they say .
most shops will sell you whatever they make the most money with .

 

[willbgood]

So as I previously mentioned, I am looking to do some offroading out in virginia with my cousin from the navy. He goes on seem pretty tricky trails, and I want to be able to have no problem keeping up, or better yet being the lead. I completely agree with you on your point that any shop you wave 6k at will tell you whatever it is to get you there. However, the one I looked at and spoke to, does warranty their work, the employees prominently own toyotas, and from what I have heard, most of what they work on is toyotas, so all that gives me extra security in knowing that my rig will come out the right way.

I know people here have said I just need to do some trimming and bashing, but in all honesty, I have done a decent amount already, and even if I was able to get the tires to not rub at all, I would still probably only get a couple of inches at most of travel before rubbing or stuffing the well to its max. I am going to the shop on Sat to sit down and talk options with this guy and see what he recommends. I feel like I know enough to tell when someone is bs'ing me and when someone is authentic. I also got to get some more info on their "warranty" and see what it entails.

As far as load, I do have an aftermarket bumper in the front, I am purchasing one for the rear, I have savage offroad full set of skids, and also their sliders, so I have some additional weight on my rig.

The toytec rides a bit stiff for my liking as well, but that is because of my own doing because I have the coilovers near their max, not 100% but I'd say about 90%.

I just sold a jeep Rubicon with a Rubicon express lift. I sold it in favor of my stock 2001 4runner SRS.

Awhile back I started running big O bigfoot AT tires on it for winter use, 245's. Everyone who saw it commented that I should get bigger tires, but being an experienced winter driver, I knew the thinner tires were better in snow and on ice.

Well, I never switched back to the big tires after the winter passed, because I knew I was going to sell it, and I wanted the tread on the big tires when I did.

Guess what, the smaller tires did not hold me up anywhere. I went everywhere I did with the big tires, and in my never so humble opinion, I think the smaller tires gave me an advantage, by lower the center of gravity. My only gripe about the jeep is, well its a jeep, and a maintenance hog. The Rubicon express lift was an annual bushing rebuild.

My advise is get some 33's and use your skill to out wheel the jeeps.

PS, part of my reason for the recent swap is the advantage of the toys enclosed in space, fuel capacity, and load bearing. After much research, my 01 is about to get a current Toytec ultimate treatment. I should also mention that I have rebuilt and passed onto my kids two first gens, and two 2nd gens. My sons 94 was originally mine, and it has been places you would not believe and done more real work on the farm than most trucks ever see...when it was stock. As well I had a Hilux that went over 500 K, and would still be running except for a rollover, due to exhaustion, after a long day of wild land fire fighting. That stock truck was overloaded, overworked, and driven in farm conditions that would kill most other trucks. In snow with narrow snow tires, I drove through 20 inches of snow, and aside from the lack of power, it did great. If only I had of known, what I know now, back then, I would have bought four or five of them and stored them.