Apple Opposes Judge Order to Break Encryption

Isn't this telling me that they(Apple) "can" get into your stuff??:shrug:
Through the Cloud backups?

Yes, IF you backup your data (iMessage texts for example) to the iCloud server, then Apple has access to them. BUT, the data on YOUR phone is protected. In other words, if you do NOT use iCloud to back up your Mail or iMessage, then no one has access to them on your phone except you.

Remember "the fappening?"

Explain to me what happened. I wonder what your knowledge is on this topic.
 
The funny thing is people assuming that just because Apple refuses the FBI's request that means the government can't get into the phones. The amusing thing is that the public still believes that the government isn't as invasive as they really are.

Bottom line, don't let this fool you into thinking Apple is some protective big brother; they just don't trust the government to double cross them in the business deal and it gives them good publicity. As for the government, just because the FBI "asks" for that information doesn't mean that the government can't get into the phones; it just means they need to as because otherwise evidence is thrown out in a public trial.

I am not sure that you understand encryption as it pertains to iPhone.

Part of the reason why Apple products are relatively expensive is that you are buying this "protection" from them. They are not giving this protection out for free. Other operating system (e.g. Android) services are "free" because you are selling your data to them.

I do not believe that data garnered from bad guys phones thru methods employed by FBI/CIA/Police have ever been thrown out of court. Prior to iOS8, data from iPhones via Apple help or brute force by FBI are fair game in court.
 
Yes, IF you backup your data (iMessage texts for example) to the iCloud server, then Apple has access to them. BUT, the data on YOUR phone is protected. In other words, if you do NOT use iCloud to back up your Mail or iMessage, then no one has access to them on your phone except you.



Explain to me what happened. I wonder what your knowledge is on this topic.

Phishing breach of Icloud photos.
 
Yes, IF you backup your data (iMessage texts for example) to the iCloud server, then Apple has access to them. BUT, the data on YOUR phone is protected. In other words, if you do NOT use iCloud to back up your Mail or iMessage, then no one has access to them on your phone except you.

But doesn't having the auto backup to the cloud on (which I think is always on, user has to disable it)(not positive)?? take away one of the big values of the Apple ecosystem?
Having it backup for you so you don't have to think about it? It just does it for you..
 
But doesn't having the auto backup to the cloud on (which I think is always on, user has to disable it)(not positive)?? take away one of the big values of the Apple ecosystem?
Having it backup for you so you don't have to think about it? It just does it for you..

Of course. I have my iCloud backup ON. But, for those who want privacy and security, then you can disable and delete all iCloud backup.
 

Mcafee is a funny and weird as hell guy...and love to talk big. Unless the terrorists use dumba$$ passwords or just giving away info on social media or are still alive and thus able to fall for phishing techniques, he cannot decrypt the iPhone.

Even the best of the best hackers with him, the BEST that he can do to an iPhone is erase everything and turning it into an overprice iPod Touch (if carrier blacklisted the serial). And this is what the FBI is trying to avoid.

But yes, he is right about FBI using this backdoor to do more.
 
Apple is not refusing to give the info on the phone to the fbi. They have in fact given it to the fbi. What Apple is refusing to do is build a back door into all iPhones that the gov can access anytime they desire.
 
Apple is not refusing to give the info on the phone to the fbi. They have in fact given it to the fbi. What Apple is refusing to do is build a back door into all iPhones that the gov can access anytime they desire.

Apple has given FBI everything that they can provide from Apple servers (IF the terrorist had used iCloud for backups). But, FBI wants what is IN the phone.
 
Apple is not refusing to give the info on the phone to the fbi. They have in fact given it to the fbi. What Apple is refusing to do is build a back door into all iPhones that the gov can access anytime they desire.

Apple has given FBI everything that they can provide from Apple servers (IF the terrorist had used iCloud for backups). But, FBI wants what is IN the phone.


As far as I understand, the FBI is not requesting the information in/on that phone. They want the "key" to be able to access any iphone when they "need" to.

I support Apple being forced (warrant/court order) to access and provide the information in/on that phone to the FBI.

I do not support Apple being "forced" to give the FBI/feds the keys/ability to access any phone they want without having to go through Apple...
 
Link to CEO statement: Customer Letter - Apple

Some highlights:

"We have great respect for the professionals at the FBI, and we believe their intentions are good. Up to this point, we have done everything that is both within our power and within the law to help them. But now the U.S. government has asked us for something we simply do not have, and something we consider too dangerous to create. They have asked us to build a backdoor to the iPhone.

Specifically, the FBI wants us to make a new version of the iPhone operating system, circumventing several important security features, and install it on an iPhone recovered during the investigation. In the wrong hands, this software — which does not exist today — would have the potential to unlock any iPhone in someone’s physical possession.

The FBI may use different words to describe this tool, but make no mistake: Building a version of iOS that bypasses security in this way would undeniably create a backdoor. And while the government may argue that its use would be limited to this case, there is no way to guarantee such control.

The government suggests this tool could only be used once, on one phone. But that’s simply not true. Once created, the technique could be used over and over again, on any number of devices. In the physical world, it would be the equivalent of a master key, capable of opening hundreds of millions of locks — from restaurants and banks to stores and homes. No reasonable person would find that acceptable.

We can find no precedent for an American company being forced to expose its customers to a greater risk of attack. For years, cryptologists and national security experts have been warning against weakening encryption. Doing so would hurt only the well-meaning and law-abiding citizens who rely on companies like Apple to protect their data. Criminals and bad actors will still encrypt, using tools that are readily available to them.

The implications of the government’s demands are chilling. If the government can use the All Writs Act to make it easier to unlock your iPhone, it would have the power to reach into anyone’s device to capture their data. The government could extend this breach of privacy and demand that Apple build surveillance software to intercept your messages, access your health records or financial data, track your location, or even access your phone’s microphone or camera without your knowledge.

While we believe the FBI’s intentions are good, it would be wrong for the government to force us to build a backdoor into our products. And ultimately, we fear that this demand would undermine the very freedoms and liberty our government is meant to protect.

Tim Cook"


Welcome to 2/17/16. :)
 
They are ordering Apple to create an entirely new product, one that does not exist, so they can use that product to break into people's phones.

BTW Apple is one of a short list of companies to offer this type of secure HW encryption.

Journalists no longer use Skype because Microsoft now owns it and the encryption features are believed to have been back doored.
 
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i am not, and have never been an apple fan. that said, I applaud them for their stance on this.

I hope they hold strong, and do not give in.
 
Just because the key lives in the SE doesn't mean a "corrected" firmware can't be used, it just needs to be signed by Apple to do so. There's no direct proof stating that a signed firmware requesting changes to the SE would erase the keys, that's just speculation and wishful thinking, with enough reasonable doubt to imply that Apple did not input that feature . Additionally, since Apple doesn't release technical data (not that that they should or would be expected to), there's nothing to say that such a method doesn't already exist in the firmware to record and/or duplicate keys.

The basic issue at hand is that the brute force attempt at best either takes too long where time is of the essence. Not to mention, while in the past data "illegally" obtained may have be admitted in court; there's a growing expectation that private digital data should be covered under constitutional rights. We're still a country of laws and constitutional rights; well at least that's the illusion everyone tries to keep up.

I'm curious how hard it would be to spoof a signed firmware in a non-connected environment; I imagine it's not easy, but hardly impossible. The US government is seeking a more reliable and repeatable method to enter the phones than having to keep fighting the system everytime.
 
As far as I understand, the FBI is not requesting the information in/on that phone. They want the "key" to be able to access any iphone when they "need" to.

I support Apple being forced (warrant/court order) to access and provide the information in/on that phone to the FBI.

I do not support Apple being "forced" to give the FBI/feds the keys/ability to access any phone they want without having to go through Apple...

Maybe i read wrong. At this time, FBI wants what is in THAT phone. They want Apple to create a new iOS software that then can be downloaded into THAT phone...the new version of it would take out the data erase measure so that they (FBI) can do brute force entry.

The fear is that a "secret" iOS version (aka backdoor) would be leaked out to hackers and/or used by the government for other uses.

That's my understanding and i may be outdated.
 
Just because the key lives in the SE doesn't mean a "corrected" firmware can't be used, it just needs to be signed by Apple to do so. There's no direct proof stating that a signed firmware requesting changes to the SE would erase the keys, that's just speculation and wishful thinking, with enough reasonable doubt to imply that Apple did not input that feature . Additionally, since Apple doesn't release technical data (not that that they should or would be expected to), there's nothing to say that such a method doesn't already exist in the firmware to record and/or duplicate keys.

The basic issue at hand is that the brute force attempt at best either takes too long where time is of the essence. Not to mention, while in the past data "illegally" obtained may have be admitted in court; there's a growing expectation that private digital data should be covered under constitutional rights. We're still a country of laws and constitutional rights; well at least that's the illusion everyone tries to keep up.

I'm curious how hard it would be to spoof a signed firmware in a non-connected environment; I imagine it's not easy, but hardly impossible. The US government is seeking a more reliable and repeatable method to enter the phones than having to keep fighting the system everytime.

Yeah, again, you're into conspiracy theory. No, Apple cannot just make a firmware to copy the encryption key or delete it from a phone.

Encryption is both software and hardware. They key lives on the device.

From what i have read, FBI does not want the encryption key (not possible to get)...what they want Apple to do is REMOVE the data erase feature from brute force entry. By removing the data erase entry, they then can use brute force to get into the device and access the data. Once they know the device passcode, encryption turns OFF...and thus data on phone is available. But to do so, Apple would need to create a new iOS version withOUT data erase feature baked into it.

That is my understanding.
 

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