hikenbike
New member
Wow! This describes The Donald perfectly. Wonder if Thai has the same hair style and a knockout wife?
Seriously though, his wife must be a saint.....and I say that with absolute admiration.[emoji3]
Apple Opposes Judge Order to Break Encryption
- Thread starter Thai
- Start date
Wow! This describes The Donald perfectly. Wonder if Thai has the same hair style and a knockout wife?
Seriously though, his wife must be a saint.....and I say that with absolute admiration.[emoji3]
Thai
Elite Member
Thai
Elite Member
Considering many if not most Apple people lauded how Apples never got viruses for a LONG time, that's just you being petty.
My phone doesn't matter in this argument, you're just looking for a red herring to focus on and trash talk people like you usually do; I think it's obvious by this point that I'm more of an Android user than any other OS at the moment (maybe they should make a Linux phone?)
You somehow still think I'm for Big Government despite me being clear that I'm not... again typical Thai trying to force an argument. I made it clear I am very wary and distrustful of the government and that while I'm for fighting for Privacy rights, I simply think the optics of Apple protecting a terrorist to be an unfavorable fight for them. I believe most EVERYONE in this thread has echoed that sentiment.
I thin the government should just spend the tax payer money and build their own backdoor and stop trying to take the lazy way out by forcing Apple; it's already been stated multiple times by multiple people that there's a very large reasonable doubt to the firmware being THAT secure. (You're assumptions and statements that it is without any real technical data, which you consistently fail to provide yet everyone else attempts to, is evidence that you don't know much of the SE beyond what Apple press released and so you're no more qualified to discount or agree than the rest of us).
Yes I am aware that the Apple products are made of the same tough glass that everyone uses, yet more than half of the Apple products I see are cracked and damaged and according to their owner's own volition being dropped from ridiculously short distances. I've had phones drop off the lift, bounce, skid, and hit walls and they don't crack; apparently Apple doesn't understand how to take advantage of tough glass?
Sneaky firmware probably has to do with jailbreaking, but I've also heard it having to do with non-approved Apple applications being installed and the firmware seeing it. Bottom line, I haven't seen any Android firmware, Microsoft, most other companies actively attacking their customer's for modifying the OS (they won't warranty it or provide support, but that's different from assaulting an end-user, that'd be akin to Toyota "bricking" your 4Runner because you decided to install a CAI and disable the Navigation lock-out), that's just a dirty business practice in my opinion. But that's only a small reason I don't care for Apple.
As for me "looking the other way", I don't I have stated multiple times that Apple is just like every other company out there. Samsung, Apple, Microsoft, they all are shady and disingenuous; what pisses me off is how Apple acts and creates this cult following that they can do no wrong while publicly cheating taxes, using child labor, and other shady practices like every other company. My main focus in trashing Apple has been that they are no better than the rest, because I don't throw in pages of examples from VW, Samsung, Microsoft, and other companies doesn't change that fact. You're purposeful attempt to ignore that and continue to throw red herrings out is only further evidence that you are probably one of those drinking the kool-aid, a shame since you are sometimes a good debater.
Now let me make this clear for you... though in all honesty you're more than likely to somehow not understand the very clear and concise statement I make below based on past experience.
Nothing is absolute. However, it is pretty damn clear that Mac OS is much more resistant to virus than Windows. But it is not perfect. How you cannot accept that is beyond me! And Apple certainly has NEVER claimed such invincibility. Owners can claim a lot of stuff...like you claiming such BS regarding Apple, but it does not mean that it must be true, right?
So, you have an Android. Was that hard? You think that Google is secure? You think that they care about privacy? Compared to Google, Apple IS a freaking saint!
You think that Google/Android is this grand open source OS that allows you unlimited potential?
READ: Google?s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary | Ars Technica
Google is very much becoming like Apple. Restrictive. Not allowing services that compete with them.
Do this since you're so techy...create an Android APP on Play Store that blocks advertisements and ads. And send it in for Android approval. Do you know what will happen esp if your app becomes popular??? Your APP will be thrown out to the trash and your developer account is banned if you persist! True story!
And do you know why this Apple privacy stance will not be a problem with Google?
READ: Flawed Android factory reset leaves crypto and login keys ripe for picking | Ars Technica
READ: https://blog.avast.com/2014/07/08/tens-of-thousands-of-americans-sell-themselves-online-every-day/
So, even with encryption AND wipe to factory settings, your data can still be recovered!
OK, you think that Apple can easily bypass the encryption with firmware...and that the government is just being "lazy". Seriously?! This is your brilliant logic? Let's see they tried to break into the iPhone...failed. Then because they are being lazy, they decided to take it publicly and face criticisms. Now, they are trying to make policies and throw suits at Apple.
And all this time, they could have created firmware on their own to break into the iPhone! It is so easy because BlackWorksInc says so! Hey, he even gave you the great Toyota analogy as a sure way to break into the iPhone! :faint:
And now we know that China and Russia also do not have the encryption...oh yeah, it is so darn easy to break into iPhones! Oh wait, are you confused and talking about Android malware? :doh:
Drop tests...hey take a look at Youtube...plenty of tests. Show me one that clearly shows iPhone inferiority. Show me this 6 INCH drop test. Let's cut the BS because we know that you're bias and full of it.
Oh yeah, with Apple huge R&D, they have no idea on how to design a phone! LOL
Show me where an application caused the firmware to attack it. You mean Error 53? If you do, then you have a total misunderstanding of that error!! Jailbreaking? Well, it has been 100% confirmed that jailbreaking and rooting exposed you to hacking and malware!!!! WTF are you talking about?! LOL
Samsung shuts off Samsung Pay if you root. Didn't some Android OEM locking down the bootloader?
You are focus on Apple being evil like others, but are we talking about labor laws HERE??? Like you said, others esp MS and Google have lots of badness to them. Keep your focus.
We're talking about PRIVACY...just in case you forgot. Apple has made a huge stance in this area. Instead of supporting them for THIS stance (since you're such a big CONSERVATIVE guy and all), you crap on them AND their customers (for some odd ignorant reasons).
But, in the end, even though this is the net, one should be TRUTHFUL in where you stand, instead of BSing. Just saying.
Just a reminder of your previous post that showed your true colors:
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Thai
Elite Member
No idea what this blog is but he (Fortune) has collection of which media supports Apple and who does not: Media backs Apple's privacy stance overwhelmingly - Dr Bob Tech Blog
Needless to say that the public pretty much supports Apple privacy stance.
Needless to say that the public pretty much supports Apple privacy stance.
BlackWorksInc
New member
@Thai
Yes we were talking about Privacy, then you got obsessed which phone I had, why JB and I were talking about how Apple's stance looks optically and how all the Apple Cult follow Apple's stance and some other stuff that you threw out as red herrings (granted I let myself get sucked in on that as well).
Again with the red herrings and stating facts with no data. I didn't say Google or Microsoft were better or safer; just that Apple isn't much better than the rest as a whole (and yes child labor laws and other datapoints fit into why I personally do not like Apple as a company, that combined with the Apple Cult constantly trying to convince me that their **** don't stink is tiresome; sort of how Trump's fans make me shake my head at America). Yet you're the one throwing in how other companies are just the same (which is what I said the entire time), despite me even stating including other company's errors in this case would be pointless to add. As for Android becoming more closed source, that doesn't entirely surprise me, open source leaves a lot of room for profits to bleed away from the parent company; part of the reason why Linux never really took off in comparison to Windows or MAC, despite it being probably one of the more open source OS available. Chances are if Android becomes more and more tyrannical with their software I will be less and less favorable to them as I am with Apple; stances change and companies change for better and for worse. They wouldn't be the first company I liked and then had severe difficulty backing afterwards (VW comes to mind at the moment as a good example).
I didn't say it was easy or simple, just that there's enough reasonable doubt based on how Apple has admitted that the Secure Enclave works and manages the Encryption Key. It's been pointed out by many people so far that Apple seems to be a bit wishy washy on what information they can and do access and use, additionally they haven't made a substantiated statement saying that the SE can't be bypassed by creating a firmware to remove/disable the exponential delay and information lock out (which is why the feds have been so frustrated because the delay greatly increases brute-force attack time requirements.) Additionally, you bring up an interesting point here... How secure is Apple's Data Erasure? Is it a multi-pass system, does it purposefully fry the chips themselves, does it do anything other than assign data to be deleted like most systems (as you pointed out Android's system doesn't seem to overwrite the assign data to permanently delete it). I haven't seen much information in that regard for Apple or a lot of companies, I suppose that'd be something to be aware of if we're really getting into privacy.
In any case you constantly and conveniently avoid presenting data that supports your claim that the SE cannot be bypassed besides your baseless insistance it can't be. In fact in the last few quotes you purposefully avoiding mentioning or stating WHY it can't be breached; despite me stating and calling you out multiple times to show even a semblance of data that shows how the SE works and why a bypass wouldn't work. I have explained to the best of my knowledge on how the SE works roughly and why a bypass could be possible based on what I read; combined with the wishy washy data from Apple is reasonable doubt enough to mean it might be possible. Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence, something you seem to not to want to believe.
As for the Government? Yes they are lazy, they screwed up trying to get into the phone and spent most of their time brute-forcing the phone (which with the exponential delay makes that ridiculously slow, 5yrs I believe Apple said once?). Now it's entirely possible that the FBI doesn't have the ability to crack the phone (again there's reasonable doubt either way; so all I can say is it wouldn't surprise me if they could but just want to make Apple do it for them), I also stated that creating a firmware would most likely not be entirely simple or easy; after all it would mean spoofing Apple's signature to create an "Authentic" Firmware, which would probably mean having to bypass that authentication check somehow. Not something I would imagine would be remotely easy, but then again the government isn't asking Apple for a one time freebie here; they want Apple to make it easy EVERYTIME in the future going forward for them to get in (that's the key here, the Government is wasting a ton of time with the phone, time that they feel could be saved if Apple just bent over for them). If that's the case, maybe the government should spend tax payer money, government resources, and lots of time cracking the product themselves rather than trying to arm wrestle Apple in public court (not that I agree with them doing so, but the very fact they are is just a testament to them being greedy and lazy).
Additionally, did I not mention how most governments have two faces (a public one meant to deal with their citizens and a private one that works without the public spotlight on them?) Do you think that if the NSA, CIA, KGB/FSB, and/or MSS (whether they do or don't is up in the air here since none of us know for certain one way or the other) had such a device/software that they would just throw it out in the public for everyone to see? Did you not pay attention to the fact that Mr. Snowden had to LEAK the fact that the government was digging far deeper into our private lives than they presented; or operations such as the Bay of Pigs were never meant to be publicly known. Did you miss the analogy I made regarding how every government in the world wants to force the Swiss Banks to release their private information, yet none will push it too far because they have just as nasty secrets to hide as the guys they want to spy on? You do understand how Intelligence Agencies and National Security work right? Because I don't want to have to set the thread topic aside to cover that much history and detail.
As for drop tests, yeah I have seen them as well; which is why I don't get why everyone who has a cracked to hell iPhone 4~Present is telling me "oh it fell out of my hand onto the desk, or it fell from my pocket or off the desk (granted that's more than 6", but that was the shortest drop I heard; most were at or lower than waist height, so I'll be fair and say about 6"~3ft). Yet most of the Android phones I have owned have fallen, been launched, and/or skipped into walls and solid metal objects at heights greater than 3ft and velocities higher than simply falling off a desk or out of a pocket and the only one that broke a screen or even developed a crack was my first S4 because it hit the floor so hard the corner bent in and fractured the glass which propagated along the entire screen half. I don't see nearly as many cracked/damaged Android or Microsoft phones as I see Apple phones; hell my coworker bought a brand new iPhone 6 and managed to crack the screen when it fell out of his pocket when changing into his uniform. Not to mention his beer can aluminum iPhone 5 was bent to hell before that (3rd one that bent and broke), and then his iphone 6 started to bow a bit too. Perhaps making the phones out of old Bud Lite cans rather than a more resilient material would have helped? I mean Aluminium is not known for it's flexibility and ability to return to shape when deformed (not that plastic phones are any better, SMH at Samsung making their stuff more plastic than metal; at least they seem to flex more without breaking oddly enough at least when we compared a coworker's S6 with my coworker's iPhone 6.)
Yes this is a stance on Privacy rights, but because they chose to support a Muslim Terrorist in a Country that's fairly racist against Muslims currently; it gives them a disadvantage optically. It doesn't matter how many likes they get on FaceBook or whatever crap you post on; it gives a huge amount of ammunition for politicians and media to remove the focus from Privacy to how Apple is about protecting Terrorists and Pedophiles. Just because the Apple cult, teenie boppers, millennials, and others press "Like" on every Apple Fights for Privacy article does not translate into votes that pass or veto proposed laws and regulations. Now if you had a statistic showing how many Congressmen, Senators, Governors, and Supreme Court Justices not only supported Apple but were 100% committed to fighting any regulation seeking to destroy Privacy Rights, then you'd have something; otherwise the American People do not decide much in the country at a Federal level, our elected representatives do. Meanwhile Politicians and the Media are actively twisting the rhetoric to make Apple look like they are fighting the Government to protect Terrorists rather than Privacy. You know, throwing Red Herrings around to take focus on the fact that the government is in the wrong (sort of how you throw them about when you can't back up your statements with data?)
Yes we were talking about Privacy, then you got obsessed which phone I had, why JB and I were talking about how Apple's stance looks optically and how all the Apple Cult follow Apple's stance and some other stuff that you threw out as red herrings (granted I let myself get sucked in on that as well).
Again with the red herrings and stating facts with no data. I didn't say Google or Microsoft were better or safer; just that Apple isn't much better than the rest as a whole (and yes child labor laws and other datapoints fit into why I personally do not like Apple as a company, that combined with the Apple Cult constantly trying to convince me that their **** don't stink is tiresome; sort of how Trump's fans make me shake my head at America). Yet you're the one throwing in how other companies are just the same (which is what I said the entire time), despite me even stating including other company's errors in this case would be pointless to add. As for Android becoming more closed source, that doesn't entirely surprise me, open source leaves a lot of room for profits to bleed away from the parent company; part of the reason why Linux never really took off in comparison to Windows or MAC, despite it being probably one of the more open source OS available. Chances are if Android becomes more and more tyrannical with their software I will be less and less favorable to them as I am with Apple; stances change and companies change for better and for worse. They wouldn't be the first company I liked and then had severe difficulty backing afterwards (VW comes to mind at the moment as a good example).
I didn't say it was easy or simple, just that there's enough reasonable doubt based on how Apple has admitted that the Secure Enclave works and manages the Encryption Key. It's been pointed out by many people so far that Apple seems to be a bit wishy washy on what information they can and do access and use, additionally they haven't made a substantiated statement saying that the SE can't be bypassed by creating a firmware to remove/disable the exponential delay and information lock out (which is why the feds have been so frustrated because the delay greatly increases brute-force attack time requirements.) Additionally, you bring up an interesting point here... How secure is Apple's Data Erasure? Is it a multi-pass system, does it purposefully fry the chips themselves, does it do anything other than assign data to be deleted like most systems (as you pointed out Android's system doesn't seem to overwrite the assign data to permanently delete it). I haven't seen much information in that regard for Apple or a lot of companies, I suppose that'd be something to be aware of if we're really getting into privacy.
In any case you constantly and conveniently avoid presenting data that supports your claim that the SE cannot be bypassed besides your baseless insistance it can't be. In fact in the last few quotes you purposefully avoiding mentioning or stating WHY it can't be breached; despite me stating and calling you out multiple times to show even a semblance of data that shows how the SE works and why a bypass wouldn't work. I have explained to the best of my knowledge on how the SE works roughly and why a bypass could be possible based on what I read; combined with the wishy washy data from Apple is reasonable doubt enough to mean it might be possible. Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence, something you seem to not to want to believe.
As for the Government? Yes they are lazy, they screwed up trying to get into the phone and spent most of their time brute-forcing the phone (which with the exponential delay makes that ridiculously slow, 5yrs I believe Apple said once?). Now it's entirely possible that the FBI doesn't have the ability to crack the phone (again there's reasonable doubt either way; so all I can say is it wouldn't surprise me if they could but just want to make Apple do it for them), I also stated that creating a firmware would most likely not be entirely simple or easy; after all it would mean spoofing Apple's signature to create an "Authentic" Firmware, which would probably mean having to bypass that authentication check somehow. Not something I would imagine would be remotely easy, but then again the government isn't asking Apple for a one time freebie here; they want Apple to make it easy EVERYTIME in the future going forward for them to get in (that's the key here, the Government is wasting a ton of time with the phone, time that they feel could be saved if Apple just bent over for them). If that's the case, maybe the government should spend tax payer money, government resources, and lots of time cracking the product themselves rather than trying to arm wrestle Apple in public court (not that I agree with them doing so, but the very fact they are is just a testament to them being greedy and lazy).
Additionally, did I not mention how most governments have two faces (a public one meant to deal with their citizens and a private one that works without the public spotlight on them?) Do you think that if the NSA, CIA, KGB/FSB, and/or MSS (whether they do or don't is up in the air here since none of us know for certain one way or the other) had such a device/software that they would just throw it out in the public for everyone to see? Did you not pay attention to the fact that Mr. Snowden had to LEAK the fact that the government was digging far deeper into our private lives than they presented; or operations such as the Bay of Pigs were never meant to be publicly known. Did you miss the analogy I made regarding how every government in the world wants to force the Swiss Banks to release their private information, yet none will push it too far because they have just as nasty secrets to hide as the guys they want to spy on? You do understand how Intelligence Agencies and National Security work right? Because I don't want to have to set the thread topic aside to cover that much history and detail.
As for drop tests, yeah I have seen them as well; which is why I don't get why everyone who has a cracked to hell iPhone 4~Present is telling me "oh it fell out of my hand onto the desk, or it fell from my pocket or off the desk (granted that's more than 6", but that was the shortest drop I heard; most were at or lower than waist height, so I'll be fair and say about 6"~3ft). Yet most of the Android phones I have owned have fallen, been launched, and/or skipped into walls and solid metal objects at heights greater than 3ft and velocities higher than simply falling off a desk or out of a pocket and the only one that broke a screen or even developed a crack was my first S4 because it hit the floor so hard the corner bent in and fractured the glass which propagated along the entire screen half. I don't see nearly as many cracked/damaged Android or Microsoft phones as I see Apple phones; hell my coworker bought a brand new iPhone 6 and managed to crack the screen when it fell out of his pocket when changing into his uniform. Not to mention his beer can aluminum iPhone 5 was bent to hell before that (3rd one that bent and broke), and then his iphone 6 started to bow a bit too. Perhaps making the phones out of old Bud Lite cans rather than a more resilient material would have helped? I mean Aluminium is not known for it's flexibility and ability to return to shape when deformed (not that plastic phones are any better, SMH at Samsung making their stuff more plastic than metal; at least they seem to flex more without breaking oddly enough at least when we compared a coworker's S6 with my coworker's iPhone 6.)
Yes this is a stance on Privacy rights, but because they chose to support a Muslim Terrorist in a Country that's fairly racist against Muslims currently; it gives them a disadvantage optically. It doesn't matter how many likes they get on FaceBook or whatever crap you post on; it gives a huge amount of ammunition for politicians and media to remove the focus from Privacy to how Apple is about protecting Terrorists and Pedophiles. Just because the Apple cult, teenie boppers, millennials, and others press "Like" on every Apple Fights for Privacy article does not translate into votes that pass or veto proposed laws and regulations. Now if you had a statistic showing how many Congressmen, Senators, Governors, and Supreme Court Justices not only supported Apple but were 100% committed to fighting any regulation seeking to destroy Privacy Rights, then you'd have something; otherwise the American People do not decide much in the country at a Federal level, our elected representatives do. Meanwhile Politicians and the Media are actively twisting the rhetoric to make Apple look like they are fighting the Government to protect Terrorists rather than Privacy. You know, throwing Red Herrings around to take focus on the fact that the government is in the wrong (sort of how you throw them about when you can't back up your statements with data?)
Thai
Elite Member
Wow, that is a long essay of nothing. Are you trying to reach the word limit?
No, Apple IS better than the rest with privacy and security. There is NO DOUBT about that. Encryption is better. Less virus and malware. Simple as that. Nothing new here to see....
Android fans are kinda the same, no? Look at you. I am sure that I opened your eyes on Android encryption or lack of. POS broken operating system.
You are convinced that Android phones don't break...Youtube testings show otherwise...in some cases break even EASIER than iPhones.
You talk about S6...you do realize that S6 is not made out of plastic, right??? It is steel and two plates of Gorilla Glass front & back. Here's a thought...check out bending video of S6...it is actually WORST than iPhone 6!! Check out for yourself.
Drop test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOcRPl5ak98
I do love all your made-up stories...but lets come back to reality just a little bit.
And OMG, LG G5 is now aluminum. HTC aluminum. You may want to check out iPhone 6s and what TYPE of aluminum it uses.
Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y7tPczbOec
iPhone 6s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChUsy8gWwvo
These are facts. No stories about my neighbor of my cousin's dog owner who knew another guy who had his phone display crack just by looking at it.
Who is this "many people" who think that Apple's encryption is easily breakable with firmware? Is "many" equal to one person...you?
BTW, you should dump your Android crap. It is a walled garden for past 2 years already. And its security and privacy are nonexistent.
No crap Apple can make a firmware to bypass data erase feature! That is what we have been talking about all this thread! This involves Apple making another version of iOS that does not have these security feature. But, Apple refuses to do it. Mind blowing! Can you imagine what it is like to actually UNDERSTAND the topic at hand instead of writing long essay of nothing? This ain't Seinfeld dude.
Apple overwrites the encrypted data. Un-recoverable. Gone. Bye-Bye.
You actually think Apple fries the chip as a possibility?! Mission Impossible way of doing things?! LOL That would kinda kill iPhone's excellent resale value ya know! (But then again, Android phones have zero resale value...might as well burn the worthless thing!)
One minute you write something...then next minute you contradict yourself. You are like a politician! Cover all your bases. This is why i said that you love to backtrack on what you said...then backtrack on that backtrack!
You write a lot but it is clear that you have no clue!! Just reading your essay shows it. The same sh!t when talking about AWD system, FJ Cruiser bending, etc.. Dude, you don't know jack sh!t.
The rest of what you wrote is pure utter crap. Fillers i guess to confuse folks of your vague liberalistic points.
Last hint: read my post just above yours...Post #105. (Media is siding with Apple's privacy stance.)
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flighht2k5
New member
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Thai
Elite Member
Don't bother with him. He is your typical Android fanboy with zero tech knowledge. He does not even know the relationship between Linux and Android and iOS.
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fftopic: but lets not forget with whom we owe respect to, so we can debate over which one each of us like better.
ndcent
New member
While you continue to struggle with facts, I've got another zinger for you, champ.
Last year, toddlers were responsible for more American deaths than terrorists.
Thai
Elite Member
Wow...what a zinger! But toddlers are so darn cute!!! Their cuteness offset their cunning killing ability.
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Thai
Elite Member
Cook's letter to employees
Link: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2716997-Tim-Cook-Emails-Apple-Employees.html
For those who still have questions about this, PLEASE READ THE LINK.
Quotes:
Some advocates of the government’s order want us to roll back data protections to iOS 7, which we released in September 2013. Starting with iOS 8, we began encrypting data in a way that not even the iPhone itself can read without the user’s passcode, so if it is lost or stolen, our personal data, conversations, financial and health information are far more secure. We all know that turning back the clock on that progress would be a terrible idea.
Our fellow citizens know it, too. Over the past week I’ve received messages from thousands of people in all 50 states, and the overwhelming majority are writing to voice their strong support. One email was from a 13-year-old app developer who thanked us for standing up for "all future generations." And a 30-year Army veteran told me, "Like my freedom, I will always consider my privacy as a treasure."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q&A:
Could Apple build this operating system just once, for this iPhone, and never use it again?
The digital world is very different from the physical world. In the physical world you can destroy something and it’s gone. But in the digital world, the technique, once created, could be used over and over again, on any number of devices.
Law enforcement agents around the country have already said they have hundreds of iPhones they want Apple to unlock if the FBI wins this case. In the physical world, it would be the equivalent of a master key, capable of opening hundreds of millions of locks. Of course, Apple would do our best to protect that key, but in a world where all of our data is under constant threat, it would be relentlessly attacked by hackers and cybercriminals. As recent attacks on the IRS systems and countless other data breaches have shown, no one is immune to cyberattacks.
Again, we strongly believe the only way to guarantee that such a powerful tool isn’t abused and doesn’t fall into the wrong hands is to never create it.
Link: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2716997-Tim-Cook-Emails-Apple-Employees.html
For those who still have questions about this, PLEASE READ THE LINK.
Quotes:
Some advocates of the government’s order want us to roll back data protections to iOS 7, which we released in September 2013. Starting with iOS 8, we began encrypting data in a way that not even the iPhone itself can read without the user’s passcode, so if it is lost or stolen, our personal data, conversations, financial and health information are far more secure. We all know that turning back the clock on that progress would be a terrible idea.
Our fellow citizens know it, too. Over the past week I’ve received messages from thousands of people in all 50 states, and the overwhelming majority are writing to voice their strong support. One email was from a 13-year-old app developer who thanked us for standing up for "all future generations." And a 30-year Army veteran told me, "Like my freedom, I will always consider my privacy as a treasure."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q&A:
Could Apple build this operating system just once, for this iPhone, and never use it again?
The digital world is very different from the physical world. In the physical world you can destroy something and it’s gone. But in the digital world, the technique, once created, could be used over and over again, on any number of devices.
Law enforcement agents around the country have already said they have hundreds of iPhones they want Apple to unlock if the FBI wins this case. In the physical world, it would be the equivalent of a master key, capable of opening hundreds of millions of locks. Of course, Apple would do our best to protect that key, but in a world where all of our data is under constant threat, it would be relentlessly attacked by hackers and cybercriminals. As recent attacks on the IRS systems and countless other data breaches have shown, no one is immune to cyberattacks.
Again, we strongly believe the only way to guarantee that such a powerful tool isn’t abused and doesn’t fall into the wrong hands is to never create it.
Thai
Elite Member
Mercenary?
BlackWorksInc
New member
Wow, that is a long essay of nothing. Are you trying to reach the word limit?
No, Apple IS better than the rest with privacy and security. There is NO DOUBT about that. Encryption is better. Less virus and malware. Simple as that. Nothing new here to see....
Android fans are kinda the same, no? Look at you. I am sure that I opened your eyes on Android encryption or lack of. POS broken operating system.
You are convinced that Android phones don't break...Youtube testings show otherwise...in some cases break even EASIER than iPhones.
You talk about S6...you do realize that S6 is not made out of plastic, right??? It is steel and two plates of Gorilla Glass front & back. Here's a thought...check out bending video of S6...it is actually WORST than iPhone 6!! Check out for yourself.
Drop test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOcRPl5ak98
I do love all your made-up stories...but lets come back to reality just a little bit.
And OMG, LG G5 is now aluminum. HTC aluminum. You may want to check out iPhone 6s and what TYPE of aluminum it uses.
Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y7tPczbOec
iPhone 6s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChUsy8gWwvo
These are facts. No stories about my neighbor of my cousin's dog owner who knew another guy who had his phone display crack just by looking at it.
Who is this "many people" who think that Apple's encryption is easily breakable with firmware? Is "many" equal to one person...you?
BTW, you should dump your Android crap. It is a walled garden for past 2 years already. And its security and privacy are nonexistent.
No crap Apple can make a firmware to bypass data erase feature! That is what we have been talking about all this thread! This involves Apple making another version of iOS that does not have these security feature. But, Apple refuses to do it. Mind blowing! Can you imagine what it is like to actually UNDERSTAND the topic at hand instead of writing long essay of nothing? This ain't Seinfeld dude.
Apple overwrites the encrypted data. Un-recoverable. Gone. Bye-Bye.
You actually think Apple fries the chip as a possibility?! Mission Impossible way of doing things?! LOL That would kinda kill iPhone's excellent resale value ya know! (But then again, Android phones have zero resale value...might as well burn the worthless thing!)
One minute you write something...then next minute you contradict yourself. You are like a politician! Cover all your bases. This is why i said that you love to backtrack on what you said...then backtrack on that backtrack!
You write a lot but it is clear that you have no clue!! Just reading your essay shows it. The same sh!t when talking about AWD system, FJ Cruiser bending, etc.. Dude, you don't know jack sh!t.
The rest of what you wrote is pure utter crap. Fillers i guess to confuse folks of your vague liberalistic points.
Last hint: read my post just above yours...Post #105. (Media is siding with Apple's privacy stance.)
That's funny... you once again try to attack someone for their preference. Not once have I lauded Android as a better system and even agreed that it's not a great system, it's worked better than iOS for me even while it is going downhill (which I agreed). Nice attempt at deflection there with a hint of insult. Bottom line, I never made Android higher than Apple; just that Apple as a company and product isn't much better than the other offerings. You sir are the one trying to make this into Apple vs. Android. I simply am saying that Apple is not on some elevated pedestal of society like you and it's fans try to make it out to be.
I know how bendy the S6 is, I was the one bending the phones (mostly because my coworker and I were talking about all the iPhone 6 bending videos, he's the one who talked about how his iPhone 5 also had that issue, which I didn't know about), interesting thing is the S6 springs back (which surprised me since I expected most of the plastic and thin steel it to crack), yet the aluminum i5 and i6 do not (and the glass didn't crack either on the bending test just for posterity here). Beer can phones are still beer can phones (I know their not beer can aluminum) just because others make them now doesn't change that, can't change the fact that Aluminum doesn't seem to have that "springy" quality of steel or plastic and tends to retain the shape it's bent into. Tell you what Thai, you seem to have a ton of money to throw around with your very expensive tastes, send me a batch of 3~4 iPhone 6, 3~4 Galaxy S6, and a few other Android Phones of your choice and we'll go over a controlled experiment with repeatable results to determine the bendiness and return to original form the phones can take without breaking. That way we're both on the same page and can't possibly refute the results. Until then, you're still relying on someone else's results and stories just as much as I am.
As for screens, hey all I can tell you is that in my experience I have been surprised how resilient most Android phones have been (between mine and a lot of others in the shop). Yet more than half the people I see with an iPhone have cracked screens and damaged glass, when I ask it's usually at heights of waist level or less. That's just the facts I have to work with, sometimes real world experience works out differently than "lab testing". Unless you have an explanation for why such amazingly resilient phones seem to shatter regularly with desk office use vs. shop use?
You answered you're own question, Apple themselves admit they can use a firmware to allow bypass to the encryption (which you said earlier they couldn't multiple times). That's been what I have stated the entire time and you have consistently stated is not true because the phones are uncrackable by your belief. I stated multiple times that from what I read the SE can be cracked simply by brute-force; the only thing preventing that is the increasing time delay from incorrect pin entries and the "Data Erasure" feature should that be enabled by the user. All of which can be done by using a "signed" Firmware to disable those features (which of course Apple could create, but the point was that a Non-Apple Entity could potentially do so) . I also stated multiple times that it would most likely not be easy nor simple to spoof an authenticated firmware. The difference is subtle in that the US government wants a permanent "switch" to flip, I'm saying that said a custom firmware could be used to bypass safeties preventing rapid brute-force entry as a non-Apple method. Again, the government could waste their time and effort to develop that firmware with no support from Apple and that would probably take a significant amount of time and resources OR they could just strong arm Apple into doing it for them like they are; which has been my point the entire time in regards to the government being "lazy".
On a side note, are you even aware of how the SE operates; or do you just take the term Secure Enclave at face value? You haven't shown one example of how it works. Yet I mentioned in earlier posts that the SE works via using dedicated communication buses on the hardware chips themselves to isolate the Key in an internal network that can't be accessed from outside of the device itself; with software safeguards in place to further prevent that from happening. Yet you have failed every time to explain WHY your belief that the firmware bypass wouldn't work and even admitted multiple times you are not entirely sure what the reason the government can't brute-force the phone is; hell you could have just linked the .pdf from apple themselves explaining how SE works or bothered to actually read it.
I don't think Apple fries the chips, if you recall I ASKED if that was a possibility. You brought up an interesting point with the fact that Android does not naturally use (though that's easily fixed with 3rd party apps) multi-layer erasure. I was curious if Apple did use multi-layer erasure and/or permanently destroyed the chip and/or other methods. Though to be honest at this point you're word doesn't mean much so I'd have to see an Apple statement for proof and/or something from someone who actually knows what they are talking about.
Now I'm a Liberal? You just said I was Conservative earlier? Are you sure you're getting your political stereotypes right?
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Thai
Elite Member
OMG, dude, are you seriously this dense?! I saw some of this in the other thread, but OMG! READ the damn thread instead of going off on your tangents and then backtracking!
Hey, Aluminum is actually more "springy" than steel. :noidea: Glass in S6 bounce back?!
LOLAnd those Youtube videos and SquareTrade tests are not good enough?
Who the hell fries the chip?????? How did this even come across your brain??? No, it is NOT even a remote possibility! WTF?!
I called you a conservative? I must have misspoke. Where?
Sorry, but your post is a joke. READ THE DAMN THREAD PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.
Keep writing your long-winded posts of zero substance.
Since you are a Toyota ASE guy...i am sure Apple will gladly give you the schematics to Apple encryption!
WTF?!!! Reading your post is even better than watching Seinfeld!I will repost my response to you since it nicely sums up your ignorance and backtracking:
Wow, that is a long essay of nothing. Are you trying to reach the word limit?
No, Apple IS better than the rest with privacy and security. There is NO DOUBT about that. Encryption is better. Less virus and malware. Simple as that. Nothing new here to see....
Android fans are kinda the same, no? Look at you. I am sure that I opened your eyes on Android encryption or lack of. POS broken operating system.
You are convinced that Android phones don't break...Youtube testings show otherwise...in some cases break even EASIER than iPhones.
You talk about S6...you do realize that S6 is not made out of plastic, right??? It is steel and two plates of Gorilla Glass front & back. Here's a thought...check out bending video of S6...it is actually WORST than iPhone 6!! Check out for yourself.
Drop test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOcRPl5ak98
I do love all your made-up stories...but lets come back to reality just a little bit.
And OMG, LG G5 is now aluminum. HTC aluminum. You may want to check out iPhone 6s and what TYPE of aluminum it uses.
Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y7tPczbOec
iPhone 6s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChUsy8gWwvo
These are facts. No stories about my neighbor of my cousin's dog owner who knew another guy who had his phone display crack just by looking at it.
Who is this "many people" who think that Apple's encryption is easily breakable with firmware? Is "many" equal to one person...you?
BTW, you should dump your Android crap. It is a walled garden for past 2 years already. And its security and privacy are nonexistent.
No crap Apple can make a firmware to bypass data erase feature! That is what we have been talking about all this thread! This involves Apple making another version of iOS that does not have these security feature. But, Apple refuses to do it. Mind blowing! Can you imagine what it is like to actually UNDERSTAND the topic at hand instead of writing long essay of nothing? This ain't Seinfeld dude.
Apple overwrites the encrypted data. Un-recoverable. Gone. Bye-Bye.
You actually think Apple fries the chip as a possibility?! Mission Impossible way of doing things?! LOL That would kinda kill iPhone's excellent resale value ya know! (But then again, Android phones have zero resale value...might as well burn the worthless thing!)
One minute you write something...then next minute you contradict yourself. You are like a politician! Cover all your bases. This is why i said that you love to backtrack on what you said...then backtrack on that backtrack!
You write a lot but it is clear that you have no clue!! Just reading your essay shows it. The same sh!t when talking about AWD system, FJ Cruiser bending, etc.. Dude, you don't know jack sh!t.
The rest of what you wrote is pure utter crap. Fillers i guess to confuse folks of your vague liberalistic points.
Last hint: read my post just above yours...Post #105. (Media is siding with Apple's privacy stance.)
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BlackWorksInc
New member
OMG, dude, are you seriously this dense?! I saw some of this in the other thread, but OMG! READ the damn thread instead of going off on your tangents and then backtracking!
Hey, Aluminum is actually more "springy" than steel. :noidea: Glass in S6 bounce back?!
And those Youtube videos and SquareTrade tests are not good enough?
Who the hell fries the chip?????? How did this even come across your brain??? No, it is NOT even a remote possibility! WTF?!
So, now, you don't believe me that Apple overwrite? LOL Dude i am literally laughing my a$$ off in my office!!
I called you a conservative? I must have misspoke. Where?
Sorry, but your post is a joke. READ THE DAMN THREAD PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.
Keep writing your long-winded posts of zero substance.
Since you are a Toyota ASE guy...i am sure Apple will gladly give you the schematics to Apple encryption!
I don't think you understand what springy means, Aluminum has good deformation and absorption characteristics; it's a typically soft material (can be strengthened when made into alloy with metals such as magnesium) but it is not very good at rebounding when impacted, compressed, and/or bent and typically has a higher tendency to "work harden" and break than steel and steel alloys (think bending a strip of aluminum back and forth). It does have good strength to weight characteristics in support structures and does require more aluminum vs. steel to obtain that strength (but at still lighter weight). Have you ever bent Aluminum tubing or sheet? it does not "spring back" like steel does, it has much better malleability characteristics than steel. So if you bend an iPhone or any Aluminum Chassis phone (since you mentioned a couple already) they will have a greater tendency to retain the shape they are bent into vs. one made of a polymer and/or steel component. That being said, if you watch the bending videos you'll see that the glass actually does deform some and wants to return to it's original shape; it's not something you typically associate with glass; but if you've ever watched cops/firemen bust a driver's side window with a baton you'll notice tempered glass exhibits that characteristic slightly.
I've watched plenty of iPhone, S6, and other phones being tested; which is why I still don't get why so many iPhones are shattered by owner's own admission of being dropped off a desk or their pocket; either everyone is lying or the tests are not accounting for something. Additionally I've been genuinely shocked by how many of my phones have resisted cracking from being dropped at heights above 3ft and at higher speeds. I'm not saying they're indestructible; but I'm not convinced the iPhone isn't as fragile as it appears to be. Like I said, if I had 3~4 phones of each brand and I could do definitive testing I'd love to as it'd set this argument to rest; but I don't have a few thousand dollars to waste on phones just to prove either of us wrong or right. For every video of an iPhone not breaking I could post videos of them shattering, just like you could post videos of the S6 shattering and I could post videos of it not; it's a roundabout argument as neither of us will believe each other's videos. Science works on repeatable results and most of those videos only show one phone being tested, not multiples with controls and so on.
As for frying the chip, hey you want total security, destroy the hardware. I'm sure there's products out there that will destroy themselves to ensure complete information destruction, granted that's probably more trouble than it's worth for a iPhone; but burning out a single chip on a circuit board isn't that hard (ask Nvida, they burned up their GPUs with their own software! lol). Again, you're making it sound like I said that's what they do, I asked about various methods they could use and if they used them; if you want to be little me for thinking of all possible ways to destroy data permanently go ahead.
I don't believe much you say until you provide facts to back them up. Just like the Ridgline argument. You spent god knows how many pages arguing about how the MPGs will blow the Tacoma out of the way and in the end you agreed with me about it maybe being 2mpg better than the Tacoma (I believe the entire time I said "MPG will not be significantly better than the Tacoma if that). You have a tendency to spout your opinions as god-given fact and irrefutable by others without having any data to even mildly support your points; as such I've found it entertaining to point out that you almost always lack data for your claims. Which you then start lashing out at me and others for instead of just digging up data to shut us up (hell I even agreed with you on some points on the Ridgeline once you actually got data to support your points, that MDX AWD is pretty damn cool.) But at the end of the day you start with (to steal another member's suspicions for fun) Trump-like boisterous claims and then Trump-like outrage at being questioned, followed by Trump-like attacks on others.
It's funny because you spent so much time trying to egg people on, deflect, throw red herrings out (hey if you want to derail your own thread with stuff, I'll be more than happy to make points on those topics; you're gonna complain that people backtrack and talk about unrelated crap anyways), but you almost ALWAYS fail to provide any significant data backing up your points until a good 6 pages into a thread. Maybe if you just started off with posted data to begin with it'd cement your point and not get people like me to call you out. I'm not the one that has to defend my point at the end of the day, it's YOUR claims and YOUR lack of data to support your point; I'm just the person calling you out to put the money where your mouth is.
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