Apple Opposes Judge Order to Break Encryption

[Thai]

Fail to provide data to back up what i say? Really? What i have said in this thread is 100% verifiable with what has been said...almost too accurate at times!

And with AWD systems, you were WRONG. And you argued endlessly until i had to show you the proof AND explain to you how it works and why it is better!!!! ASE cert?

And with FJ fender bending, you gave some bogus sh!t explanation. Typical Toyota salesmen pitch! Some of my friends will gladly kick you in the arse for telling them that they jumped their FJ!

Just to take one of many examples, you keep on seeing iPhones break in your shop? You do bend and drop tests in your (Toyota?) shop regularly on all sorts of phones? BS. Maybe you need to do your job instead of BSing about drop tests!

You must be an authority in drop and bend tests! And when i show you official drop tests done (almost) scientifically, you keep referring back to your shop. LOL

Oh yeah, i am the one blowing smoke....

 

[nevada]

jesus.
lets keep this thread about the topic.

the government is overstepping, and apple says NO!

the quality of the phone is not in question.

 

[Thai]

jesus.
lets keep this thread about the topic.

the government is overstepping, and apple says NO!

the quality of the phone is not in question.

True. Sorry. But the quality of the hardware and software matter. And this is why Apple is the lone company standing up against this.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

jesus.
lets keep this thread about the topic.

the government is overstepping, and apple says NO!

the quality of the phone is not in question.

It is because Thai says it is... have we not covered this in all his threads? :frog:

True. Sorry. But the quality of the hardware and software matter. And this is why Apple is the lone company standing up against this.

Nope... all that matters is that Apple has chosen a difficult battle with a handicap and they're in the right. You're the one who decided to defend Apple's product and elevate them on a high pedestal. Everyone in this thread for the most part agrees with Apple, but doesn't quite agree with the "client" they chose to represent.

Post Note-
You were talking about two different issues with the vehicle (motor mount brackets failing, which I hadn't heard of in a long time/was not aware of & fender cracking which I addressed, part of the confusion being your insistence on calling the cab/body a "frame" when referring to the engine mount issues. Do we really need to revive that thread as well?)

 

[Thai]

Nope... all that matters is that Apple has chosen a difficult battle with a handicap and they're in the right. You're the one who decided to defend Apple's product and elevate them on a high pedestal. Everyone in this thread for the most part agrees with Apple, but doesn't quite agree with the "client" they chose to represent.

Post Note-
You were talking about two different issues with the vehicle (motor mount brackets failing, which I hadn't heard of in a long time/was not aware of & fender cracking which I addressed, part of the confusion being your insistence on calling the cab/body a "frame" when referring to the engine mount issues. Do we really need to revive that thread as well?)

So, if Apple bends over to FBI this time...what's next? China and Russia will demand the backdoor. Have you not read the articles i posted here??
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As for the FJ, no, there was no confusion. You tried to lie about it. Frame? HUH?! Ok dude.

But since you decided to insult my intelligence...lets play. Engine mount failure? That's what it is? So, just replace the engine mount and you're good to go??

Link: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/58669-motor-mount-frame-failure.html

The frame crack dude where the motor mount is! The mount (working fine) punched thru the freaking frame! It is not a engine mount issue. It is a FRAME ISSUE.

When did i call it a cab/body issue? Where is the "cab/body" in this picture oh ASE Master Tech?

ASE cert you say?

 

[BlackWorksInc]

So, if Apple bends over to FBI this time...what's next? China and Russia will demand the backdoor. Have you not read the articles i posted here??
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for the FJ, no, there was no confusion. You tried to lie about it. Frame? HUH?! Ok dude.

But since you decided to insult my intelligence...lets play. Engine mount failure? That's what it is? So, just replace the engine mount and you're good to go??

Link: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/58669-motor-mount-frame-failure.html

The frame crack dude where the motor mount is! The mount (working fine) punched thru the freaking frame! It is not a engine mount issue. It is a FRAME ISSUE.

When did i call it a cab/body issue? Where is the "cab/body" in this picture oh ASE Master Tech?

ASE cert you say?

Yes, I and others made the point of Russia and China as well, glad you agree with us.

It is an engine mount bracket (you do know the difference between a bracket and mount right?) issue, for whatever reason some frames are subject to that failure (I admittedly don't know why, send to be a V6 thing more than V8, but it's an issue); fender cracking is due to poor sheetmetal design in the cab/body which I was referring to in the thread. I can revive the thread if you'd like to start that again?

Also the fix is to reinforce the bracket mounting surface and reweld a better bracket in.

By the way, the frame is seperate from the cab on a BOF vehicle, I know you get confused with umibody a lot.

 

[Thai]

Yes, I and others made the point of Russia and China as well, glad you agree with us.

It is an engine mount bracket (you do know the difference between a bracket and mount right?) issue, for whatever reason some frames are subject to that failure (I admittedly don't know why, send to be a V6 thing more than V8, but it's an issue); fender cracking is due to poor sheetmetal design in the cab/body which I was referring to in the thread. I can revive the thread if you'd like to start that again?

Also the fix is to reinforce the bracket mounting surface and reweld a better bracket in.

By the way, the frame is seperate from the cab on a BOF vehicle, I know you get confused with umibody a lot.

LOL. Embarrassing. :blah:

 

[BlackWorksInc]

LOL. Embarrassing. :blah:

You're right, that "send" should be "seem". But not as embarrassing as your inability to see a welding error when the bracket was installed at the factory.

 

[Thai]

You're right, that "send" should be "seem". But not as embarrassing as your inability to see a welding error when the bracket was installed at the factory.

Ahhh, now welding error!!! LOL Keep digging dude.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Ahhh, now welding error!!! LOL Keep digging dude.

Note how cleanly the bracket punched through the frame, if the frame metal itself was weak it would have buckled under the strain and bent inward when the mount bracket punched through.

Additionally you can see the roughness of the backside of the weld (and what looks like possibly questionable weld quality on the bottom edge) if you look at the corner of the hole (ignore the rust as it's more likely due to the owner catching this later down the road than idicitive of corrosion related damaged, otherwise the frame wall would have buckled as mentioned earlier.)

The fact that both the mount and the frame wall have not deformed shows that it punched cleanly through a hollow section (not very likely if the entire frame itself was weak as again mentioned earlier). What that shows is that the small boundary area where the weld adheres to the base metal (called the Heat Affected Zone) is far weaker than the base metal. considering the frame is an amalgamation of high strength steels, this means that the HAZ was allowed to get hot enough to anneal the base metal and create a very weak strip of metal around the entire bracket weld.

This basically is like taking a paper towel, then placing a wet cup on top and it tearing through the paper towel. While the frame and bracket itself are still strong high strength steel, the small HAZ is now a much much weaker steel that gives way under normal weight of the drivetrain and driving conditions. It's an issue with the welding itself, not the base metal. To repair that you would weld a larger patch plate (correctly weld it I might add) and then install either the same bracket or one that distributes the weight a bit better on the new patch plate.

The real question is why it isn't as big an issue on the 4Runner side as it seems to "plague" the FJ Cruisers like you claim. You had to dig a while back to find a couple instances of it on the 4Runners, if it was as big an issue as say '03~'05 headgaskets we'd be seeing one or two every month on the 4th gen forums (we do not). So the instances of this are at least small on the 4th gen side, but possibly more prevalent on the FJ Cruiser side. Additionally, most of these frames are welded by robots, so why is the HAZ so much weaker on these affected frames than others?

[MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] I believe has experience with welding failures as do some other members, so if I'm wrong about it being a HAZ failure let me know.

Post Note-
If you want to derail your own thread, that's fine. We've established I have no life and no real purpose in this world and I find conversing/arguing with you mildly entertaining. So deflect, throw red herrings, throw insults, do what you do best; I have nothing better to do. But read up on some welding and weld related failures while you're at it.

 

[Thai]

Yes, this type of welding error is apparently prevalent...affecting 4th gens, Tacos, FJs. Those darn robots!

Apparently one FJ owner found the fix thru Toyota:

Yeah, that frame issue is minor! You only need a new freaking frame!

Link: http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forums/misc-technical-discussion/74262-i-broke-my-frame.html

Yup, definitive repair...frame REPLACEMENT. $7500-10,000.

 

[1engineer]

Let me interject some clarity here:
Robots only do what programmers tell them to do.
Pretty sure the mount bracket and the weld and the frame all played a part in the failure.
I am cheering for Apple even though I don't like or use their products.
Why? I'm still mad at them for making me learn apple basic in addition to basic back in 1986. Yes the loathing runs deep especially when I had to take it during a 21 hour semester.

Hopefully this helps this thread go even more off topic lol.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Yes, it appears to affect a small number of vehicles (at least 4th Gen wise). The Toyota fix is a new frame because they don't have dealerships weld stuff, this is not something new. What's your point? If the issue is as prevelant as you state at the very least a TSB should have been issued let alone a preliminary campaign die to this being a DOT issue.

The fact that Toyota is handling this on case by case means there have not been enough cases to indicate a wide spread issue or it's a conspiracy.

 

[hikenbike]

Let me interject some clarity here:
Robots only do what programmers tell them to do.
Pretty sure the mount bracket and the weld and the frame all played a part in the failure.
I am cheering for Apple even though I don't like or use their products.
Why? I'm still mad at them for making me learn apple basic in addition to basic back in 1986. Yes the loathing runs deep especially when I had to take it during a 21 hour semester.

Hopefully this helps this thread go even more off topic lol.

I love this watch.....

.....and Apple needs to comply and do what's necessary to get info off that device to possibly prevent other events. Privacy my butt.

 

[flighht2k5]

I love this watch.....

.....and Apple needs to comply and do what's necessary to get info off that device to possibly prevent other events. Privacy my butt.

Good for you?

And no my privacy is far more important than "security". The same can be said about the tsa. They have never prevented anything, but it makes people feel safe.

Once again
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

 

[hikenbike]

Good for you?

And no my privacy is far more important than "security". The same can be said about the tsa. They have never prevented anything, but it makes people feel safe.

Once again
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

But your privacy is NOT more important than MY security, jack.

How do you know TSA never prevented anything? You can answer that while putting your pants back on.

More importantly......I tried to engage 4 Lo at highway speeds and the nob wouldn't turn. WTF! Some dude said I should do this every month! Should I bring it in?

 

[1engineer]

.....and Apple needs to comply and do what's necessary to get info off that device to possibly prevent other events. Privacy my butt.

I agree for this specific case, unfortunately it wouldn't end there. This is a classic case of slippery slope syndrome. I'll only eat one doughnut. I'll only have one more beer. I'll only use this backdoor in this one case. Never will happen and Pandora' s box will be opened.

 

[hikenbike]

I agree for this specific case, unfortunately it wouldn't end there. This is a classic case of slippery slope syndrome. I'll only eat one doughnut. I'll only have one more beer. I'll only use this backdoor in this one case. Never will happen and Pandora' s box will be opened.

I don't think it should end there.....I think it should be used for all similar cases as well. We need to let those in intelligence do their damn job......and at some point trust that they will do so respectively of general privacy.

Maybe we should think of how terrorist organizations will react if Apple wins. Scary.

 

[1engineer]

I don't think it should end there.....I think it should be used for all similar cases as well. We need to let those in intelligence do their damn job......and at some point trust that they will do so respectively of general privacy.

Maybe we should think of how terrorist organizations will react if Apple wins. Scary.

We agree to disagree then. IMO I find it hard to believe that the NSA can't get the info the FBI wants. I think this is a push from government to industry. Personally I know that by using any device I have no more expectation of privacy. That's why I ride the bike out of cell range lol on trails less traveled.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I don't think it should end there.....I think it should be used for all similar cases as well. We need to let those in intelligence do their damn job......and at some point trust that they will do so respectively of general privacy.

Maybe we should think of how terrorist organizations will react if Apple wins. Scary.

My biggest issue with it isn't the NSA or CIA having access to my dirty pictures (though to be honest, there's nothing remotely interesting on my phone besides some memes and pictures of the 4Runner...), it's that they historically don't stop there.

Our government is and has been gaining more and more control from the people in the last decade or two, which is historically a rather bad thing. That's not to say starting tomorrow or next week we're living in a police state, but it does mean that the government has been gathering far too much control over the people. The country was founded with the idea of For the People, By the People; Government should serve the people not the other way around. Historically when the people serve the government it doesn't end well for the people.

So I agree with [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] that it's opening Pandora's Box... we as a people have already given WAY too much control to the government in the name of "the war against Terror." all of which were supposed to be temporary measure and most of which we just starting the process to get them back.