Are 3rd Gens as Good as We Think They Are?

[mtbtim]

Hey Dudes,

Maybe it's because I'm a frequent surfer of this forum reading about all the problems people have with these rigs, but are we giving these trucks more credit than they deserve?

The main driving factor to asking this question is my buddy [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] recently broke down the other day and we just confirmed this morning that his transmission is toast. We were hoping it might be the flex plate so we removed the access plate at the bottom of the bell housing and tried getting a borescope camera in there to see but it was very difficult to get enough detail so we gave up. I had him start the engine and immediately knew it couldn't be the flex plate because I could see the flex plate spinning and there was no noise while the truck was in park. While I was under the truck, he put it in gear and I had heard horrible grinding noises coming from the trans. I know sometimes it's hard to detect where a sound is originating from but the noise was loudest right under the transmission pan so I'd say it's got to be catastrophic failure of something in there, maybe the planetary gear like some have reported on the 01 and 02 models. Anyway, Game Over Man!

This transmission failure is not only a bummer for Sean but it's a let down for me as well because I'm starting to doubt how bullet proof these rigs really are. Sean bought his rig used, as many of us did, so who know how the previous owner treated it and maybe the previous owners mistreatment led to this trans failure. Sean currently has 160,000 miles on his rig and that's much too soon in my opinion for a trans to implode, especially for a Toyota.

 

[dogtail]

Hey Dudes,

Maybe it's because I'm a frequent surfer of this forum reading about all the problems people have with these rigs, but are we giving these trucks more credit than they deserve?

The main driving factor to asking this question is my buddy [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] recently broke down the other day and we just confirmed this morning that his transmission is toast. We were hoping it might be the flex plate so we removed the access plate at the bottom of the bell housing and tried getting a borescope camera in there to see but it was very difficult to get enough detail so we gave up. I had him start the engine and immediately knew it couldn't be the flex plate because I could see the flex plate spinning and there was no noise while the truck was in park. While I was under the truck, he put it in gear and I had heard horrible grinding noises coming from the trans. I know sometimes it's hard to detect where a sound is originating from but the noise was loudest right under the transmission pan so I'd say it's got to be catastrophic failure of something in there, maybe the planetary gear like some have reported on the 01 and 02 models. Anyway, Game Over Man!

This transmission failure is not only a bummer for Sean but it's a let down for me as well because I'm starting to doubt how bullet proof these rigs really are. Sean bought his rig used, as many of us did, so who know how the previous owner treated it and maybe the previous owners mistreatment led to this trans failure. Sean currently has 160,000 miles on his rig and that's much too soon in my opinion for a trans to implode, especially for a Toyota.

My last 3rd gen 1999 was an auto and had the trans replaced at 120K, I ran it up to 330K til it puked the trans again. I scraped it and bought a 99 with a 5 speed, I feel safe now.

 

[Badmotorfinger]

It's a crap shoot really.

Some rigs can be abused and run forever while some take meticulous care and end up with dead trannys and blown head gaskets.

Think about how many 3rd Gens are still on the road compared to same year Nissan Pathfinders or Dodge Durangos, overall much more reliable than just about anything else.

3rd Gen Ford Explorers are just as reliable but not near as fun or nice. I have both, 2000 4runner and 2000 Explorer.

 

[Kanoe]

Think about how many 3rd Gens are still on the road compared to same year Nissan Pathfinders or Dodge Durangos, overall much more reliable than just about anything else.

Interesting point. I have noticed that if a 4runner or Tacoma ends up in the wreckers it is usually an accident wreck. But I have seen lots of pathfinders and xterras that are fully intact. Presumably motor or tranny dies and the owners give up on them.

Is it that Toyotas are worth fixing or are toyota owners just different?

 

[diverscale]

You can't really judge durability of a vehicle on what you see on the internet. First, you mostly get the negative issues shown here, second, You never know how maintained, checked and abused was the vehicle before the failure. Even years before/previous owner can have an impact.

For example, as for a cracked head on this vehicle. We see lot of blown head gasket cases (which are mostly, afaik cracked heads). Thing is, if the vehicle had a coolant leak in the past, and while low on coolant, got heat up a bit or got air in the system (air don't cool down your engine while in the passages). We will never know this, we will only know that the head gasket or head is shot, but the overheat is probably the fundamental reason why the head is now cracked.

A vehicle can be very reliable, but will still have maintenance and checks to be done on it. So, if you have not checked your coolant for the last 2 years, and then your head cracks, the vehicle, as reliable as it can be, has broke down and it's the user's fault. And then this person will come on the forum for help.

As for my personal experience, my 4runner at 200k miles required lot of ''getting the vehicle up to date'' maintenance (fixing old and rusty parts, fixing direction, suspension, cooling, etc and regular maintenance that was overdue), and some caused by bad mechanics working on it in the past (bad installation of axle seal retainer rings which causes all the repairs coming with it, brakes, bearings.). Still, I would say that I have good confidence in this old vehicle not letting me down on my various road trips. I would not say the same for most vehicles of this age on the road. And it still feels and drive like a new vehicle.

I can have the most reliable vehicle on the planet. If I drain it's oil and coolant on the ground and drive it bone-dry, it will break down.

 

[T4R2014]

How much can you really expect after 20 years? These are WAY better than average, even after all these years. The 22RE is supposedly legendary, even though damn near every one I've seen has had a top end rebuild anyway. Things wear out with use and neglect obviously takes a toll. Even still, you guys have no idea how many have been shipped out to the 3rd world with upwards of 300k and running fine. They roll the odometers back 200k as soon as they hit Sierra Leone and get sold for a decent profit. From experience, the ones shipped out are some truly nasty 4Runners, and yet they still drive acceptably well.

 

[Tyler James Inc]

Give it as much- or little- credit as you want.
I don't overestimate mine, but I FVCKING LOVE IT, and think it's the best rig $5,000 could ever buy me! I love every minute of driving and owning it, and love maintaining it.
It was neglected in its past, and I wouldn't be surprised if my trans took a dump tomorrow- I wouldn't love it any less [emoji1360]


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[Scramble]

Are these rigs as good as we think they are?

Yes :cheers:

 

[T4R2014]

To conclude, they are as good. I drove a Bentayga the other day, and despite the price tag I didn't enjoy it as much. Don't get me wrong, it's a phenomenal piece of craftsmanship, but it ain't a 3rd gen damnit. Nothing quite catches my attention like an early 3rd gen SR5 with chrome bumpers and fender flares.

 

[99problems]

Yes :cheers:

:cheers: I'll drink to that.

Since [MENTION=131976]Badmotorfinger[/MENTION] mentioned the Ford Explorer as a competitor...
I had a 1998 Explorer (with the 5.0) when it was only 4 years old, and it felt more used up (even then) than my now-18 year old 4Runner feels today at three or more times the mileage.

 

[UnderFire]

Give it as much- or little- credit as you want.
I don't overestimate mine, but I FVCKING LOVE IT, and think it's the best rig $5,000 could ever buy me! I love every minute of driving and owning it, and love maintaining it.
It was neglected in its past, and I wouldn't be surprised if my trans took a dump tomorrow- I wouldn't love it any less [emoji1360]


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Haha, I've blown up everything that could blow up and replaced everything that could be unbolted, I could never let my 3rd gen go at this point. It's my baby.

 

[fblainen11]

Think about a comparable model from Ford, Nissan, Chevrolet, Dodge, and then compare it to your 4runner's reliability.

I'd say they are way ahead of them all when it comes to reliability. There's a reason an 01 Dodge Durango can be found for pennies on the dollar to a comparable 4Runner can be found for.

 

[JayRolla]

Hey Dudes,

Maybe it's because I'm a frequent surfer of this forum reading about all the problems people have with these rigs, but are we giving these trucks more credit than they deserve?

The main driving factor to asking this question is my buddy [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] recently broke down the other day and we just confirmed this morning that his transmission is toast. We were hoping it might be the flex plate so we removed the access plate at the bottom of the bell housing and tried getting a borescope camera in there to see but it was very difficult to get enough detail so we gave up. I had him start the engine and immediately knew it couldn't be the flex plate because I could see the flex plate spinning and there was no noise while the truck was in park. While I was under the truck, he put it in gear and I had heard horrible grinding noises coming from the trans. I know sometimes it's hard to detect where a sound is originating from but the noise was loudest right under the transmission pan so I'd say it's got to be catastrophic failure of something in there, maybe the planetary gear like some have reported on the 01 and 02 models. Anyway, Game Over Man!

This transmission failure is not only a bummer for Sean but it's a let down for me as well because I'm starting to doubt how bullet proof these rigs really are. Sean bought his rig used, as many of us did, so who know how the previous owner treated it and maybe the previous owners mistreatment led to this trans failure. Sean currently has 160,000 miles on his rig and that's much too soon in my opinion for a trans to implode, especially for a Toyota.

Its an old vehicle. They will break. That being said your right. Sell and buy something bulletproof.

 

[Tyler James Inc]

To add to that, I even want a second one- and my wife is 100% on the same page as me on that. And I'll probably pay close to $10k for exactly what I want.
It's worth no more- or less- than exactly what it's worth to you [emoji6]


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[JZiggy]

All I know is that my 3RZ has 225k and still doesn't use a drop of oil.

But then again, that is also true of our 2000 Honda CR-V with 190k. Not a bad built vehicle either, but it's not quite a 4Runner :bounce:

 

[theesotericone]

I have two Toyotas and a 2003 Jetta TDI in my driveway. Why? Because they are some of the most dependable vehicles that I can afford. My 88 Toyo van has 325,000 miles on it and I would drive it to New York tomorrow. It's never had any motor or tranny work done to it. My 4runner has 240,000 on it. I've only put 7000 of those on it but bought it with high miles knowing I had a better then average chance of it seeing 300,000 without major work. The Jetta is the baby in the family at 180,000.

Will my 4runner last as long as my van? I'm betting yes. Will my van see 400,000? Probably. Would I throw all the facts out the window if my tranny or motor blew tomorrow? Nope. Toyota makes solid vehicles. They last and have been known to last for a very long time. Chalk it up to bad luck as opposed to the norm.

 

[GangsterOfLove]

I think 160K miles is remarkable service life for a 20 year old transmission.

Tough crowd.

 

[IBallEngineer]

Well no vehicle is infallible. I mean people drove early VW bugs for a million miles, but they weren't no way close to perfect. I think there is more to what we feel about 3rd gens than just how long a transmission will go, 284K on my 99 and 209 on the 2000, but I expect either could fail one day. I'll deal with it like anything else.

We know of lots of problems.

Axle seals
Timing belts
Fuel gauges
door locks
Sun roof leaks
rear door wiring
Starter contacts

Just to name a few. But they are easily fixed, without breaking the bank. And they can do a lot of things, camp, tow, ferry people, look cool, off road, carry surf boards, Did I mention look cool?

And, they aren't Hondas! (sorry Honda guys, I never drank that cool aid)

I love the simplicity, I was at a Toyota dealer the other day and one of the techs said to me that Toyota's are behind the technology curve. He may be right but that doesn't bother me one bit. It's part of the appeal, at least to me. A 3rd gen can be a mommy mobile, or an awesome rock crawler, in large part due to it's simplicity.

Hey I used to think my Dad would turn over in his grave to know I abandoned the Chevys for Toyotas, but now I think he would be right there with me, in an LS430!

 

[shadow247]

Any vehicle is a crapshoot, Toyota just happens to build their vehicles to tighter specs, so things tend to last longer. My rig with 370k on the original engine/tranny is a great example of how long these trucks can last.

I've got a 99 Landcruiser with 170k. It runs smooth as a top.

My 2006 GMC Sierra with 260k is noisy, worn out, and not nearly as tight as the 4Runner or the Land Cruiser. I expect to put an engine in the Sierra before the 4runner.

 

[ZionXIX]

Time for a Timmy the tool man transmission post mortem

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