Auto to 5 speed swap, need your input!

[danthemanx07]

Even if you manage to get the 5 speed bolted up and get the transfer case working, your year limits to only automatic transmission compatible ECUs. You'll throw a CEL for the missing automatic transmission components. There will be a lot of now defunct wires left over from the auto transmission harness.

Manual swap in 01-02 would not be a fun thing to do IMO... 99-00 have manual transmissions available, making an ECU swap of the same year a solution to auto ECU CEL's. I don't think theres a way to make the auto ECU not throw codes. That could be annoying to look at daily, moreso when inspection or smog come around

This is true. Without a manual ECU available, you are going to have to fool your ECU into thinking the transmission is still there. You can do this using a method mentioned below by Singtoe.

I disagree.

Wiring the neutral safety switch isn't going to fix it. A 3.4 auto ECU will definitely throw codes, there are missing solenoids and sensors. Those will be missing whether or not you're in neutral.

Here are some codes I found online of typical 5 speed swaps on the 3.4 using the automatic ECU:
P0710- Transmission Fluid Temperature Sensor Circuit Malfunction
P0753- Shift Solenoid B Circuit Electrical
P0758- Shift Solenoid B Circuit Electrical
P0773- Shift Solenoid E Circuit Electrical

Is there a way to manipulate the ECU into thinking the missing parts are there and in functioning order? If even a malfunction can throw a code, the readings must be very specific.. I don't see how it could be done without ridiculous amounts of extra effort, or a simulator of some sort. I'd start looking at 2002 Tacoma 3.4 5speed ECUs and try to get one of those to work, there's pinouts online and in the FSM, it could be compared and repinned if need be. I am unaware of differences maybe involved with throttle by wire or other Tacoma/4Runner differences, but that's a good place to start looking.

A great quote on TTORA from mosk

Tacoma ECUs are different I believe. I know they were in 1998, the year of my 4runner, so you can't just pull a Tacoma one without running the same risk that the OP would run by popping in the ECU he already has from the 1996 donor vehicle.

WADR,

I didn't say the neutral safety switch.

Make the ECU think the transmission is in neutral.

This is from a '91, but same principle:

Automatic ECU into Manual - YotaTech Forums

This may be true, but it assumes that there are no additional sensors in the later model years that the ECU looks for. If anyone is going to get creative, they should get creative and build some shift solenoid simulators as Singtoe suggest. This should work fine.

I think the easiest way to fix this is to Take an ohm reading of each solenoid and buy the equilivant ohm resister and wire it in.

The ECM will see the load on the circuit and think all is fine.

Do the same for the Temp sender. Find a ohm value for the correct temp and wire the corresponding resister in place.

I think this would be the best way to do it without an ECU. A fella over on TTORA I think started this project before we found a way to swap in manual ECUs without frying them. Unfortunatley, that information is not freely available for 4runners. The guys on TTORA compiled the data about ECUs for the Tacomas. I just got lucky that the guy doing the work had a 1998 4runner and the data for it.

Oh good.

Yeah I already have the ECU out. Maybe I will swap the harnesses that seems like the best bet.

Edit: The more I think about it, wouldn't it just be easier to find a 1997 manual trans V6 ecu?

You run the same risk that I mentioned before. There is no way of knowing that the manual and auto ECUs have the same pinouts. You could get the info by buying a one day subscription to the toyota information system. If you go to that thread on TTORA that I mentioned in an earlier post, you can get an idea about the differences between the manual and auto ECUs. Truthfully I have never compared any ones other than the ones for a 1998 4runner, but I know that in 1998 the ECUs were different.

 

[danthemanx07]

Re-railing this thread for a moment.

Here's a list of what I have pulled for the swap, please let me know if I am forgetting something.

-Manual trans
-T-Case
-Shifters
-Shifter trim
-ECU
-Driveshafts
-Clutch pedal assy and all connectors
-Brake pedal assy and all connectors
-Clutch cancel switch
-Clutch (will be replaced)
-Flywheel (will be replaced)
-Master cylinder
-Slave cylinder
-Clutch lines
-Crossmember

I think that's it, right?

I'm still super confused on wiring. That's basically all that's holding me up right now.

Leaving the ECU issue aside, the rest of the wiring is pretty easy and should be documented on my thread on TTORA. The wiring on the transmission harness may be different, but you could check out Bawlz's thread. His is a 1997.

 

[danthemanx07]

Here is another thread that may be of use. This fella was doing his swap the same time I was, so we exchanged thoughts on a number of things. A340F- to -W59 - TTORA Forum

 

[Swimmerboy2112]

Leaving the ECU issue aside, the rest of the wiring is pretty easy and should be documented on my thread on TTORA. The wiring on the transmission harness may be different, but you could check out Bawlz's thread. His is a 1997.

I don't think i'll need to do any other wiring with the ECU aside from plugging it in.

Here is another thread that may be of use. This fella was doing his swap the same time I was, so we exchanged thoughts on a number of things. A340F- to -W59 - TTORA Forum

Hmm interesting, I will check it out.

Basically, as far as i'm concerned, here is a list of the wiring I have to do, correct me if i'm wrong.

-There are 2 switches on the brake pedal assy, I am assuming I already have that wiring in my auto.
-There is a switch on my clutch pedal assy which needs to be wired up
-There are 2 pigtails on my transmission 1 is for the reverse lights and what's the other for?
-There is the clutch cancel switch

 

[danthemanx07]

I don't think i'll need to do any other wiring with the ECU aside from plugging it in.



Hmm interesting, I will check it out.

Basically, as far as i'm concerned, here is a list of the wiring I have to do, correct me if i'm wrong.

-There are 2 switches on the brake pedal assy, I am assuming I already have that wiring in my auto.
-There is a switch on my clutch pedal assy which needs to be wired up
-There are 2 pigtails on my transmission 1 is for the reverse lights and what's the other for?
-There is the clutch cancel switch

I will be interested to hear how the ECU works out. Keep us posted on that one. I have a 1998 manual ECU that I have yet to swap in.... CEL has not bothered me much after three years.

No work needed for brake pedal. There should be two switches on the clutch pedal. One at the top and one at the bottom. The one at the top will disengage the cruise control and the one at the bottom is the neutral safety switch. I think this is it, but this is all from memory of work done three years ago now...

Do you mean 2 pigtails coming off the auto transmission? I know I had unused wires that ran to the auto tranny after the swap. I am pretty sure I only hooked up the reverse lights to the transmission.

Let me know how you wire the clutch cancel switch. I finally picked one up, but I have not wired it in yet.

 

[Swimmerboy2112]

I will be interested to hear how the ECU works out. Keep us posted on that one. I have a 1998 manual ECU that I have yet to swap in.... CEL has not bothered me much after three years.

No work needed for brake pedal. There should be two switches on the clutch pedal. One at the top and one at the bottom. The one at the top will disengage the cruise control and the one at the bottom is the neutral safety switch. I think this is it, but this is all from memory of work done three years ago now...

Do you mean 2 pigtails coming off the auto transmission? I know I had unused wires that ran to the auto tranny after the swap. I am pretty sure I only hooked up the reverse lights to the transmission.

Let me know how you wire the clutch cancel switch. I finally picked one up, but I have not wired it in yet.

I'll let you know about the ECU. In PA you cannot have a CEL on and pass inspection.

You are right, there are 2 on the clutch pedal assembly, I was getting it confused with the brake pedal assy.

About the trans, there are 2 plugs that come off the transmission. Maybe 1 off the trans 1 off the t-case. I can take a picture if you'd like.

And as far as the clutch cancel switch goes, I would think it would make most sense to parallel it with the neutral safety switch off the clutch. There are 3 wires that come off the safety switch 1 I am assuming is for the light and the other 2 make and or break a circuit.

 

[D Farms]

man this is awesome, Id love to have a 5 speed on my 02, The only thing I miss about my 05 hyun was the stick shift.

 

[danthemanx07]

I'll let you know about the ECU. In PA you cannot have a CEL on and pass inspection.

You are right, there are 2 on the clutch pedal assembly, I was getting it confused with the brake pedal assy.

About the trans, there are 2 plugs that come off the transmission. Maybe 1 off the trans 1 off the t-case. I can take a picture if you'd like.

And as far as the clutch cancel switch goes, I would think it would make most sense to parallel it with the neutral safety switch off the clutch. There are 3 wires that come off the safety switch 1 I am assuming is for the light and the other 2 make and or break a circuit.

No worries on the pictures. I am fairly positive the only thing you need to plug into the transmission is the back up light.

Was there a clutch cancel indicator light? I think I have the wiring diagram for it somewhere. Wiring in parallel might as well be greek to me unfortunately.

 

[Swimmerboy2112]

No worries on the pictures. I am fairly positive the only thing you need to plug into the transmission is the back up light.

Was there a clutch cancel indicator light? I think I have the wiring diagram for it somewhere. Wiring in parallel might as well be greek to me unfortunately.

Ok yeah i'm not even sure what the other one is for?

And no i'm not saying there is an indicator in the dash (although there may be) but no i'm saying when you press the switch, the switch itself is backlit.

 

[Swimmerboy2112]

Found this lifesaver!

 

[danthemanx07]

Good find! haha. I think I found a similar diagram after I finished my wiring.

 

[Swimmerboy2112]

Good find! haha. I think I found a similar diagram after I finished my wiring.

Does that look similar to how you ran your wires?

Also I took a look today, there is only 1 plug on the transmission but there are 2 plugs on the t-case.

It looks like i'm just about ready to do this swap, just gotta wait for Marlin to get some clutches in stock.

 

[Jon]

You can wait on Marlin or go with something better and cheaper than stock. I will back the F1 clutches all day. I beat the hell out of my stage 2 and it held just as long as I'd expect a stock application to. With all the slow crawling that I do now I decided to upgrade to the 6 puck Stage 3 and it is great. Expect a race clutch cuz it's either on or off. Very limited feathering. Stage 2 is plenty if you're not running stock gears, 35's and a super charger. Bad combo for any clutch.

F1 Stage 2 Clutch Kit Flywheel 1995 04 Toyota 4Runner Tacoma T100 Tundra 3 4L V6 | eBay

I went cheap as possible just to test for fitment and make sure everything function checked but the setup hasn't failed me yet. It's dirty but it works.

As always... if you've got the time and money then there's no excuse not to do it right the first time.

Good luck man, you're gonna love it!

 

[Swimmerboy2112]

You can wait on Marlin or go with something better and cheaper than stock. I will back the F1 clutches all day. I beat the hell out of my stage 2 and it held just as long as I'd expect a stock application to. With all the slow crawling that I do now I decided to upgrade to the 6 puck Stage 3 and it is great. Expect a race clutch cuz it's either on or off. Very limited feathering. Stage 2 is plenty if you're not running stock gears, 35's and a super charger. Bad combo for any clutch.

F1 Stage 2 Clutch Kit Flywheel 1995 04 Toyota 4Runner Tacoma T100 Tundra 3 4L V6 | eBay

I went cheap as possible just to test for fitment and make sure everything function checked but the setup hasn't failed me yet. It's dirty but it works.

As always... if you've got the time and money then there's no excuse not to do it right the first time.

Good luck man, you're gonna love it!

I think i'm gonna go with the Marlin clutch. If I wasn't supercharged, then maybe i'd try the F1, but I really don't wanna be tearing into this thing for the next 10 years...

Appreciate the kind words sir!

 

[Swimmerboy2112]

Do you guys think using the J-shift t-case out of the donor will require extra wiring over the push button/lever system currently in my truck?

 

[danthemanx07]

Does that look similar to how you ran your wires?

Also I took a look today, there is only 1 plug on the transmission but there are 2 plugs on the t-case.

It looks like i'm just about ready to do this swap, just gotta wait for Marlin to get some clutches in stock.

Here is the summation of the wiring on mine:

black wire->depress switch->black/white wire (this will allow the engine to start when the clutch is pushed in)
black/yellow->release switch-> white/red wire (this will make the computer believe it's in drive when the clutch is extended thus allowing your cruise to function)
black/yellow->reverse switch-> red/yellow wire (this will illuminate the reverse lights when shifted into reverse)

Check out posts 17 and 25 over on my thread on TTORA for some additional info.

Do you guys think using the J-shift t-case out of the donor will require extra wiring over the push button/lever system currently in my truck?

No. The J-shifter doesnt require anything really. The one connector it uses *I think* only serves to illuminate the light on the dash.

 

[Swimmerboy2112]

Here is the summation of the wiring on mine:

black wire->depress switch->black/white wire (this will allow the engine to start when the clutch is pushed in)
black/yellow->release switch-> white/red wire (this will make the computer believe it's in drive when the clutch is extended thus allowing your cruise to function)
black/yellow->reverse switch-> red/yellow wire (this will illuminate the reverse lights when shifted into reverse)

Check out posts 17 and 25 over on my thread on TTORA for some additional info.



No. The J-shifter doesnt require anything really. The one connector it uses *I think* only serves to illuminate the light on the dash.

I appreciate the wiring info.

And on my J-shift t-case there are 2 plugs...

 

[danthemanx07]

I appreciate the wiring info.

And on my J-shift t-case there are 2 plugs...

Ah. I stand corrected. I will crawl under there and double check mine this weekend. I am having a hard time even recalling one on the t-case...

Yep - you are right. There are two. Not sure of their function though.

 

[Swimmerboy2112]

Here are the plugs on mine.

 

[Swimmerboy2112]

Auto trans is out!

Brake pedal is mounted, all that's left to do before I can throw the 5 speed back in is mount the clutch pedal, and master cylinder and the wiring!