B1T/BST Campaign Warning

[BlackWorksInc]

Alright guys, I figure I would warn you ahead of time before people get confused and screwed up with this new campaign. So far the software hasn't been released yet, but more than likely it will be next year and you'll be getting paperwork in the mail if you haven't gotten it yet.

The B1T Campaign (it will more than likely be BST when the software is availible) is a software update for the ECM to install "Smart Stop Techology" this is a result of the accelerator pedal fiasco. What it does is essentially prioritize signals from the accelerator and brake pedal and force the engine to power down when the brake pedal and accelerator pedal are both pressed.

We have a current BST (for Corollas) so I have been playing with the cars after they are done and basically what happens is this:

~Press on the Accelerator Pedal
~Then press on the Brake Pedal while still holding Accelerator Pedal
~Engine bogs down close to idle
~Let off the brake pedal and engine recovers about 10-20 seconds after

Why should you care? Because it eliminates the ability to effectively power brake your vehicle. Which for many of us is very useful off-roading.

I'm not saying everyone should opt out of it, but I figure I would let you guys know ahead of time because I doubt Toyota will "backflash" the ECMs if the customers aren't happy.

B1T Campaign Dealer Letter:
View attachment T-CP-B1T-A110-D.pdf

 

[CookieRoe]

Whoa! thanks for the heads up

~Let off the brake pedal and engine recovers about 10-20 seconds after

Why should you care? Because it eliminates the ability to effectively power brake your vehicle. Which for many of us is very useful off-roading.

I'm not saying everyone should opt out of it, but I figure I would let you guys know ahead of time because I doubt Toyota will "backflash" the ECMs if the customers aren't happy.

B1T Campaign Dealer Letter:
View attachment 102286

Thanks for the heads up. What I don't like (apparently with the Corolla) is the 10-20 sec "recovery" time. That's an eternity in certain situations. For example, when parking on an incline. Many times, I hit the brake while keeping the acc pedal in to avoid "roll back". Hmmm................. I dunno about this.

I'll wait and see. On a related note: When I go to the Toyota dealer (near my work AND home), they still hassle me to get the accelerator pedal recall performed on my truck. I always look the service guy in the eye and tell him not to touch my pedal. I specifically tell them to write on my papers, "Customer refuses recall work". Same with the Lexus dealer when I take my parents cars in. Appears as though I am going to go through this again and again (if I refuse the updated software.)

 

[BlackWorksInc]

You should have had a release document to sign originally, from which point they should not bother you about it. I would even go as far as show them a copy of it every time if you have it just to beat them back.

 

[awdjunkies]

Interesting, I literally have an appointment in a couple of days to have this done.


SO, You're saying the SW isn't out yet? should I cancel my appt. till next year then?

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Far as I know, the campaign information has not been updated yet, which would show the new software version. There is software for the Corollas right now.

 

[gm350reratliff]

Thanks for the heads up! I won't be doing this either.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Bump for the thread since the BST is now released for the 4th gen 4Runners and for members to check out the information linked.

Also please note that as the owner you have the right to refuse the campaign and the dealership CANNOT and SHOULD NOT perform unauthorized repairs without your consent, this includes performing recalls without gaining your permission.

 

[toyotatech84]

I got the call from my manager, if I was bored to do my recall. I read the notes and said. Nahhhhh not gonna do it

 

[drewm]

Note the fine print:

"For example, the system will not activate in 4WD vehicles while driving in the low range. This system also allows the driver, for instance, to depress the brake pedal in conjunction with the accelerator pedal when starting on a steep hill. No matter the situation, activation is canceled when the brake pedal is released."

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Note the fine print:

"For example, the system will not activate in 4WD vehicles while driving in the low range. This system also allows the driver, for instance, to depress the brake pedal in conjunction with the accelerator pedal when starting on a steep hill. No matter the situation, activation is canceled when the brake pedal is released."

Yes, but its not something some people would want for their purposes. For example in my V8 4WD I rarely if ever have to use 4Lo when off-roading, yet I do hold the brake sometimes, which would cause me no amount of untold frustration. The other thing to note is that there is a couple seconds lag from what I have seen in the Corollas from when the "Brake Smart Technology" Deactivates and the vehicle returns to normal (i.e. let off the brake and the vehicle still has sluggish to no throttle response for a second or two), not something you want on the trail.

I really wish I could take a 4Runner with the BST recall on it and see how well it holds up on the trail, because I have a feeling it hampers the vehicle's performance unless you run it in 4Lo all the time in regards to this idiot proof braking. Again I am not saying don't get the Recall done, just to be aware of what it entails for your vehicle because there is NO GOING BACK if you get it (unless someone has managed to clone the software for an old ECM laying around on a hard drive somewhere...)

 

[Martinjmpr]

The B1T Campaign (it will more than likely be BST when the software is availible) is a software update for the ECM to install "Smart Stop Techology" this is a result of the accelerator pedal fiasco. What it does is essentially prioritize signals from the accelerator and brake pedal and force the engine to power down when the brake pedal and accelerator pedal are both pressed.

Thanks for the heads up! :thumb3:

So, you're a tech, yes? Because I have a question about this accellerator pedal thing, and I think maybe you can answer it:

Although I learned to drive on an automatic and got my license in one ('76 Ford Torino Wagon) I learned to drive a manual early on and every vehicle I owned from 1979 (when I got my first vehicle) to 2003 had a manual transmission.

So, I'm used to shifting gears. And when I first heard about these "runaway cars" and people calling on their cell phones to say they couldn't stop their cars, I was baffled. Is it not possible to shift an automatic into neutral? Is there something that "locks" the transmission?

Because I'm so used to manual transmissions, I have even gotten into the habit of just automatically "bumping" my transmission from D to N when I stop at a stop light. It's just something I naturally do. Obviously, the engine is idling at that point, so it's not under a load, but every time I do it, of course, the vehicle goes into neutral.

Are people just not aware that you can shift an auto transmission into neutral? I mean - damn, if you've got enough presence of mind to dial a cell phone, don't you have enough common sense to shift the transmission to "N?" In most cases, you don't even have to press the button to go between N and D, at least on the 3 auto transmission vehicles I've owned.

My assumption is that people who grew up with automatic transmissions are so used to putting the thing into D and then forgetting about it that they are just clueless about what a transmission can do.

FWIW, I often drive my 4runner like a manual, for example, if I'm heading up a steep hill, I'll drop it from D to 4, or even down to 3. I will also sometimes drop it to 4 and then 3 to pass someone (yes, I know that just mashing on the accellerator will do the same thing, but I like to have a little more control.)

But serious question, on these 'runaway' vehicles, what happens if they just shift to "N?" OK, maybe it would cause the engine to race up to the rev limiter, but that's a lot less damaging than plowing into a guardrail or another vehicle, right?

 

[inscarguy]

you know whats weird is after they did this "update" w/o my permission i was driving home and it felt sluggish and felt like i lost power somewhere. it ran perfectly fine on the way there.

 

[LTDSC]

you know whats weird is after they did this "update" w/o my permission i was driving home and it felt sluggish and felt like i lost power somewhere. it ran perfectly fine on the way there.

Either computer is recalibrating or you're mind playing tricks.

 

[OrdnanceMarine]

Would this be Toyota's official acknowledgement that this wasn't really an issue with the floor mats?

 

[toyo]

Interesting how Toyota's list of involved vehicles is different than the list of affected vehicle from the settlement documentation. According to this one list my Lexus LS is involved as well.

 

[toyo]

Would this be Toyota's official acknowledgement that this wasn't really an issue with the floor mats?

This is just one of many stipulations that the attorney's and judge stipulated in the settlement.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Thanks for the heads up! :thumb3:

So, you're a tech, yes? Because I have a question about this accellerator pedal thing, and I think maybe you can answer it:

Although I learned to drive on an automatic and got my license in one ('76 Ford Torino Wagon) I learned to drive a manual early on and every vehicle I owned from 1979 (when I got my first vehicle) to 2003 had a manual transmission.

So, I'm used to shifting gears. And when I first heard about these "runaway cars" and people calling on their cell phones to say they couldn't stop their cars, I was baffled. Is it not possible to shift an automatic into neutral? Is there something that "locks" the transmission?

Because I'm so used to manual transmissions, I have even gotten into the habit of just automatically "bumping" my transmission from D to N when I stop at a stop light. It's just something I naturally do. Obviously, the engine is idling at that point, so it's not under a load, but every time I do it, of course, the vehicle goes into neutral.

Are people just not aware that you can shift an auto transmission into neutral? I mean - damn, if you've got enough presence of mind to dial a cell phone, don't you have enough common sense to shift the transmission to "N?" In most cases, you don't even have to press the button to go between N and D, at least on the 3 auto transmission vehicles I've owned.

My assumption is that people who grew up with automatic transmissions are so used to putting the thing into D and then forgetting about it that they are just clueless about what a transmission can do.

FWIW, I often drive my 4runner like a manual, for example, if I'm heading up a steep hill, I'll drop it from D to 4, or even down to 3. I will also sometimes drop it to 4 and then 3 to pass someone (yes, I know that just mashing on the accellerator will do the same thing, but I like to have a little more control.)

But serious question, on these 'runaway' vehicles, what happens if they just shift to "N?" OK, maybe it would cause the engine to race up to the rev limiter, but that's a lot less damaging than plowing into a guardrail or another vehicle, right?

I've made a lot of posts regarding this when it was a big news deal and many members were chatting about it. Plain and simple, if you're too stupid to:

-Throw the vehicle in neutral
-Move the vehicle to a safe location (i.e. side of the road)
-Shut the vehicle off

Then in my honest opinion you shouldn't even be near the wheel of a vehicle, period. Its a your responsibility as the operator of the vehicle to understand how to operate your equipment in all conditions, not least of which is emergency situations. The congressional hearing where the lady was talking about how she threw it in Neutral and Park and Reverse while flying down at 90mph and hitting the brakes and using the parking brake (even though the Lexus Dealership did NOT find any evidence of the parking brake being applied, which at that speed would have just roasted the rear brakes) was dramatic and wonderfully fanciful story telling pulled straight from her idiotic brain. Anyone who has ever wrenched or bothered to learn how vehicles work would have listened to that story and knew she was flat out lying. At that speed if you threw the vehicle in Reverse or Park the transmission would more than likely grenade once the parking pawl caught a tooth on the planetary gear assembly.

I don't want to go too far into it because it opens a huge can of worms on the topic of "self responsibility" and what's wrong with this country, so I'm just going to leave you with the above statement and the simple:

Yes, if you put it in neutral the car no longer moves under its own power and the engine will bounce off the rev limiter.

Either computer is recalibrating or you're mind playing tricks.

It could be the vehicle recalibrating and/or they may have played with some of the throttle settings as its all digital and can easily be manipulated to change the throttle response. As I said before Toyota like many other manufacturers does not have detailed "Patch Notes" for what the update does and so there could be dozens or hundreds of small parameter changes to how the vehicle operates that no one would ever know about except for the guy who programmed it.

Would this be Toyota's official acknowledgement that this wasn't really an issue with the floor mats?

I can't speak on Toyota's behalf because I am just a technician and have no real tie to the company other than wrenching on their vehicles.

But, I can say that the large majority of these "Sudden Acceleration" instances is mainly due to customers who stack floor mats and crap all over the floor of their vehicle (which is a lot more people than you would think). Yet, I am not saying ALL of these cases are due to that, there are a small percentage that from what I remember reading struck me as purely equipment related. There's evidence of Tin Whiskers (another sore subject since in '12 they banned lead in electronic solder in ALL industries including Auto & Aeronautics even though Tin Whiskers can be defeated by just 5% lead in solder) and even more recently some errors in coding that could lead to memory sinks causing the computers to possibly become over taxed on their memory and glitch out (a couple threads on the matter showed up in General and Off-Topic, very interesting reads.)

 

[oljedi11950]

Not to jump off topic BWINC , but I had a tranny guy tell me putting it in neutral is bad for torque converter ? I used to do it all the time till he drove with me one day .

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Not to jump off topic BWINC , but I had a tranny guy tell me putting it in neutral is bad for torque converter ? I used to do it all the time till he drove with me one day .

Well, I mean I guess it could be? I never really thought about it too much. Technically the Torque converter puts itself into "Neutral" if you will when it reaches stall speed, i.e. at a stop. There's not too much benefit to running the vehicle in neutral and in some vehicle designs that actually reduces flow of transmission fluid if I remember right.

But if the truck's flying 90mph and climbing with no way to stop, at that point the engine/transmission wearing out become the least of your issues I would suspect.

 

[oljedi11950]

Ya that's what was referring to being at stop in traffic & putting into neutral . Only what I was told ? Then in the last 3months TC has been screaming at low rpms .