Backpacking

[MStudt]

Sierra Designs Ultralight 2-Person 3-Season Backpacking Tent

Big Agnes Slater UL 2 Plus Tent: 2-Person 3-Season | Backcountry.com

Not sure what is on the list but might want to look at these.

Blue

We're looking at the Big Agnes Cooper Spur UL2 and the Big Agnes Scout UL2.

It might be worth having her try it out in the back yard for a night or two and see what she thinks. I didn't think I was going to like sleeping in a hammock either, but I had one anyway and decided to try it out, and I sleep SO much better in it once I got past the learning curve. I have a Klymit air pad that I love when I have to sleep on the ground, but a properly set up hammock is 500% more comfortable - no pressure points, no sore back or hips in the morning, don't have to worry about sloped ground or big roots or runoff from the rainstorm making it under your groundcloth, they truly are great. In a high traffic area like the AT I imagine that flat ground suitable for tents can sometimes be a premium - you don't have to worry about that with a hammock. Trek off into the bush and find two trees the right distance apart and enjoy your privacy.

Check out the trip reports on hammockforums.net next time you're bored. There's several guys there that hamp on the AT, check out their setups and see what you think.



In cold weather you're going to want what they call an underquilt. On the warm summer nights, I don't use anything but a lightweight fleece bag. When it gets cool, I use my air pad for insulation underneath, but once there's snow on the ground, a down underquilt is the way to go.

This dude's a dork, but if you can get past that these are really good videos:
Hammock Hangin' How-To PART 1... Essentials For Noobs Part 1 - YouTube
Shug's Backpack Hammock Load for a 21º Trip...PART 1 - YouTube
? Shug's Backpack Hammock Load for a 21º Trip...PART 2 - YouTube

I started looking at these and not sure if this is the way to go on cold months. We'd be over 5lbs for a Doublenest, fly, and underquilt. This is something to consider in warmer months for sure though. I tried watching his video once, just have mute it.

 

[MtnT4R]

^ hammocks get super cold from convective heat loss in the winter. You would need an arctic rated bag to be comfortable.

You could go bivvies and pine boughs instead of hauling around tents and pads?

I've been thinking about going native and just sleeping on hot rocks by the fire. might try that next summer...

 

[dapslappy]

when ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise

I didn't find the one I had to comfortable at all. I took it on a 44 mile trip in Glacier around 6 years ago. I fought for comfort the entire trip, and could never get the pack to sit right. Granted, I know their packs have come along way over the past few years, and their getting tons of good reviews now. Another thing is the weight, I know it's not much weight, but everything counts when it's long distance.

6 years ago? Obv a backpack needs to fit the user. They may fit differently now. I assume the packs are completely different in design and construction. Also I think they are on the lighter end of the scale weight-wise. My 65+10 liter is just shy of 4 lbs. Don't know as I am only an occasional user but ignorance never stands in the way of me opining.

 

[aha2988]

The only thing about a hammock would be part of our hike is going to be in winter months. With a hammock, could we ditch our sleeping pads and save more weight? Not really up to date on the hammock thing, but this could be an option.

As far as a pack recommendation go for the osprey if you like the way it feels I love mine and highly recommend one. I have the ATMOS 65 and it's great, enough space to pack for a long trip or I can pack light and have room for beer in there to lol. the only negative thing i can say about my particular pack is the water bottle pouches on each side are a tight fit so it's not easy to grab while hiking but i use a bladder so I just keep the nalgenes for cooking water. Gregory packs are like the cadilac of packs in my opinion they're extremely comfortable to wear but they are heavier with the extra padding. My wife carries a gregory and liked it's comfort over the osprey's :noidea:


I would advise using a sleeping pad in the hammock it adds insulations against the cold air blowing underneath you and helps flatten out the hammock when your in it. Although I dont recommend using a hammock in the colder months it can be done it's just a matter of hanging the hammock to where when you sit in it your butt is basicly on the ground and keep the rain fly tight to where you have to crawl into the hammock to get in and you can stay warm easily. They make a thermal insert for the hammocks but i wouldn't waste my money on them they're heavy and could easily be replicated with a thicker sleeping bag.

As far as the hammock comfort is concerened I've never slept better in the woods, they are great. You don't have to worry about level ground or that one rock you have to setup on top of because it's in the middle of the level area and so on. It's definitely a one hammock one person thing though I've slept two people in my doublenest but you had to stay on your side the whole night so it got un comfortable.


The REI half dome 2 tent is a light weight tent for not to much money and is what I carry in the winter i've had it out in nights as low as 10degrees and stayed pretty cozy with a 20 degree bag, bag liner, fleece blanket, and air pad. As well it's great for summer to because it just becomes a mesh net leaving the rain fly off. or you can set up just the polls and the rain fly and have the breeze coming through gaps around the base of the fly.

If you can post up when you might be coming through the mount rodger's area of the AT in virginia, Me and my boys can head out that weekend with supplies and hook you guys up on the trail We do a loop trek they're quite often and can just hike the AT south until we run into you as well point out the closest's water springs in the area

 

[MStudt]

6 years ago? Obv a backpack needs to fit the user. They may fit differently now. I assume the packs are completely different in design and construction. Also I think they are on the lighter end of the scale weight-wise. My 65+10 liter is just shy of 4 lbs. Don't know as I am only an occasional user but ignorance never stands in the way of me opining.

Yes, 6 years ago?

I'm fully aware how to fit backpacks and adjust them. Even if fitted correctly, so pack are just not comfortable, no matter what you do. Correct, the 65+10 is a mere 2 ounces under 4lbs. If they can make a 4280ci pack under 4lbs, why can't they make a 3600ci under 3lbs? Instead they have one that is close to 3lbs, and another that is close to 5lbs.

I can stick with what I know and like, that being Granite Gear. I can get a Granite Gear Crown VC which is 3600ci and weighs 2lbs 2oz for the same price.

I'm sure Deuter has changed a lot since then. Tons of people like them, and they have been awarded product of the year awards. I tend to stick with products that I know work for me. I know I can get a comfortable pack from Granite Gear and hike the entire 2180 miles with it. I'd rather not take a chance with a pack I've already had issues with.

 

[dapslappy]

me too

I'd rather not take a chance with a pack I've already had issues with.

Neither would I. If it fits, it fits. If it don't, it don't.

 

[aha2988]

I realized my post was long and just wanted to pull this out of it an emphasize this part of it lol...

If you can post up when you might be coming through the mount rodger's area of the AT in virginia, Me and my boys can head out that weekend with supplies and hook you guys up on the trail We do a loop trek they're quite often and can just hike the AT south until we run into you as well point out the closest's water springs in the area

 

[MStudt]

I would advise using a sleeping pad in the hammock it adds insulations against the cold air blowing underneath you and helps flatten out the hammock when your in it. Although I dont recommend using a hammock in the colder months it can be done it's just a matter of hanging the hammock to where when you sit in it your butt is basicly on the ground and keep the rain fly tight to where you have to crawl into the hammock to get in and you can stay warm easily. They make a thermal insert for the hammocks but i wouldn't waste my money on them they're heavy and could easily be replicated with a thicker sleeping bag.

If you can post up when you might be coming through the mount rodger's area of the AT in virginia, Me and my boys can head out that weekend with supplies and hook you guys up on the trail We do a loop trek they're quite often and can just hike the AT south until we run into you as well point out the closest's water springs in the area

I'm still looking into the hammock stuff. There is so much information out there, and everyone seems to have a different opinion. Front what I've gathered, I would carry less weight with a tent then everything for a hammock. Unless I can get a hammock, rain fly, use my Big Agnes Insulated Air Core pad along with my zero degree bag and stay warm?

I'll definitely hit you up when we're getting close to that area.

 

[aha2988]

I'm still looking into the hammock stuff. There is so much information out there, and everyone seems to have a different opinion. Front what I've gathered, I would carry less weight with a tent then everything for a hammock. Unless I can get a hammock, rain fly, use my Big Agnes Insulated Air Core pad along with my zero degree bag and stay warm?

.

that would probably keep you warm, your warm temp and my warm temp are definitely to different things though for the sole fact that your going for the whole AT trail length it might be best to have a tent specially with your wife there and starting in january it will be colder than a hammock will be comfy for. depending on how much it warms up the the later months that your there it may be worth switching out your tent for two hammocks.

I'd say the only way you'd save weight with the hammock is if you were to share one with your wife and thats not practical you have to figure she can carry the tent poles and you can carry the rest of the tent or vise verse, with the hammock setup you have the rain fly, the straps, and the hammock. you split that up and it's only oz's per pack if you double up and had two hammocks well then both of your packs just got a little heavier. The hammock option is purely for comfortable sleeping ability beats the heck out of sleeping on the ground. also provides a chair for sitting around the camp to support your back while your resting. Thermorest also makes a chair frame that utilizes your air pad and creates a gravity chair... I'm gonna stop right here i could talk about this for hours lol

 

[MStudt]

that would probably keep you warm, your warm temp and my warm temp are definitely to different things though for the sole fact that your going for the whole AT trail length it might be best to have a tent specially with your wife there and starting in january it will be colder than a hammock will be comfy for. depending on how much it warms up the the later months that your there it may be worth switching out your tent for two hammocks.

I'd say the only way you'd save weight with the hammock is if you were to share one with your wife and thats not practical you have to figure she can carry the tent poles and you can carry the rest of the tent or vise verse, with the hammock setup you have the rain fly, the straps, and the hammock. you split that up and it's only oz's per pack if you double up and had two hammocks well then both of your packs just got a little heavier. The hammock option is purely for comfortable sleeping ability beats the heck out of sleeping on the ground. also provides a chair for sitting around the camp to support your back while your resting. Thermorest also makes a chair frame that utilizes your air pad and creates a gravity chair... I'm gonna stop right here i could talk about this for hours lol

That's what I'm thinking with the hammock as well. I'd hate to start out freezing the first night and have to wait until my first or second drop for someone to mail my tent. I'd rather not freeze for the 2-3 weeks from the start. Plus, I'm sure we're going to reach places on the trail where we're going to want to pitch our in an opening with a view.

 

[aha2988]

That's what I'm thinking with the hammock as well. I'd hate to start out freezing the first night and have to wait until my first or second drop for someone to mail my tent. I'd rather not freeze for the 2-3 weeks from the start. Plus, I'm sure we're going to reach places on the trail where we're going to want to pitch our in an opening with a view.

thats the route I would take, I'm jealous your getting the oportunity to trek the whole AT. I've met many people on the trail while they're doing it. One older gentlemen was doing it in sections by him self mainly because he couldn't take that much time away from his family. I got to sit with him one morning while collecting water it was awesome to hear his stories and i could tell he was happy to have someone to converse with for a bit. I'll definitely do it one of these years just have to get some money saved up to afford the bills for that long lol. for a light weight cook set look at the GSI dualest it's the greatest thing in my opinion since sliced bread. That paired with a MSR pocket rocket makes for a very light kitchen/stove setup. I'd stay away from white gas the failure rate on them isn't the best for that long of a trek although the gas makes starting fires very simple.

 

[MStudt]

thats the route I would take, I'm jealous your getting the oportunity to trek the whole AT. I've met many people on the trail while they're doing it. One older gentlemen was doing it in sections by him self mainly because he couldn't take that much time away from his family. I got to sit with him one morning while collecting water it was awesome to hear his stories and i could tell he was happy to have someone to converse with for a bit. I'll definitely do it one of these years just have to get some money saved up to afford the bills for that long lol. for a light weight cook set look at the GSI dualest it's the greatest thing in my opinion since sliced bread. That paired with a MSR pocket rocket makes for a very light kitchen/stove setup. I'd stay away from white gas the failure rate on them isn't the best for that long of a trek although the gas makes starting fires very simple.

I've got that exact same cook setup right now, and I love it. I'm looking into getting the MSR Reactor 1.7 for a full set-up and is a lot more windproof then the pocket rocket. The Reactor is just over 10oz and should perform better in colder weather then the pocket rocket.

My wife and I have been saving for a couple years now for this trip. Fortunately for us, our only bills at this time are house related. We currently have more then enough saved to pay our mortgage for at least 7 months, and give us around $3-4k to spend while on the trail. We're going to put our house up for sale when we leave, or rent it out to someone we know. We're also going to sell our two extra cars for even more cash.

We have a grand plan and it all starts with the AT. If we can finish the AT by July we'll go home for a week or so, and then head off to Colorado. In Colorado we'll be hiking the CT which is from Denver to Durango and just under 500 miles. From there we'll most likely end up in Portland staying with my family, working, and saving money for a year. Then off to the PCT while we're still young.

At least that's the plan for now. We're to far into the AT planning to back out now. We're working with the Scoliosis Research Society and are going to put together a pledge system for our AT hike. All the proceeds will go to SRS as well.

 

[MStudt]

Eagles Nest Outfitters Inc. - Hammocks and Hammock Sleeping Systems - Rain, Cold and Insect Protection.

Kelty Noah's Tarp | Backcountry.com



Also,

If you go this route don't waste the money on the ENO Straps. Get some Military 550 cord at any Surplus store. Much stronger and has many more uses.

It might be worth having her try it out in the back yard for a night or two and see what she thinks. I didn't think I was going to like sleeping in a hammock either, but I had one anyway and decided to try it out, and I sleep SO much better in it once I got past the learning curve. I have a Klymit air pad that I love when I have to sleep on the ground, but a properly set up hammock is 500% more comfortable - no pressure points, no sore back or hips in the morning, don't have to worry about sloped ground or big roots or runoff from the rainstorm making it under your groundcloth, they truly are great. In a high traffic area like the AT I imagine that flat ground suitable for tents can sometimes be a premium - you don't have to worry about that with a hammock. Trek off into the bush and find two trees the right distance apart and enjoy your privacy.

Check out the trip reports on hammockforums.net next time you're bored. There's several guys there that hamp on the AT, check out their setups and see what you think.



In cold weather you're going to want what they call an underquilt. On the warm summer nights, I don't use anything but a lightweight fleece bag. When it gets cool, I use my air pad for insulation underneath, but once there's snow on the ground, a down underquilt is the way to go.

This dude's a dork, but if you can get past that these are really good videos:
Hammock Hangin' How-To PART 1... Essentials For Noobs Part 1 - YouTube
Shug's Backpack Hammock Load for a 21º Trip...PART 1 - YouTube
? Shug's Backpack Hammock Load for a 21º Trip...PART 2 - YouTube

^ hammocks get super cold from convective heat loss in the winter. You would need an arctic rated bag to be comfortable.

You could go bivvies and pine boughs instead of hauling around tents and pads?

I've been thinking about going native and just sleeping on hot rocks by the fire. might try that next summer...

Anything you guys can teach about hammocks would be great. I've been reaching out to several outdoor companies over the past week. Anyways, we've been given a pretty nice sponsorship deal from ENO, so now the research begins. I think we'll be sticking with a tent in the early months and switching out to a hammock in the warmer months.

 

[KidVermicious]

I learned a lot from reading "The Ultimate Hang - An Illustrated Guide To Hammock Camping" and from reading at Sgt Rock's Hiking HQ (Hammock Camping 101). Things like strap angle and structural ridgelines matter much more than you'd think in terms of getting the hammock to lie flat, and flat is what you want. I assume you know already to hang with your body at an angle to the line made by the tree straps.

My own hammock right now is a DIY - I have a Grand Trunk single, but it's slightly too small for my 6'3" frame. My homemade sling is a 92"x130" taffeta tablecloth with Warbonnet style bunches on the ends, and it's slightly too large. Hopefully that helps you get the correct size right off the bat.

I sleep under an Aquaquest silnylon 10x7, pitched on the angle for coverage, when I bother to throw up a tarp at all, and I love it, it's completely waterproof when I pitch it right. A buddy has a cuben fiber tarp that's even awesomer, but that's bucks.

My sleeping setup on cool nights (40-60 degrees) is fleece sweats and jacket, stocking cap, synthetic 15* bag that's really more like a 35* bag, and my air pad underneath me for insulation. I still get Cold Butt Syndrome if it drops below 40* or if the pad twists out from under me, so I'd like to have a down underquilt and sleeping cap but I'm too busy spending money on my truck. I'd probably still carry the Klymit anyway just in case I have to go to ground for whatever reason.

Uh, what else? Hang low to the ground and on the lee side of a hill if you're expecting rain, wind can blow spray up underneath your tarp if you're too high off the ground. Inspect your straps daily and carry spares (or 100' of paracord), you don't wanna bust one of those in the middle of the night. Paracord is also good for drip lines hung off your straps and ridgeline so that runoff doesn't travel down the straps to you. Take the time to practice in your back yard or on short overnighters, because you probably won't sleep well the first night - there's a bit of a learning curve especially if you're a side sleeper.

I'm sure there's bunches that I'm forgetting. I've ended up teaching myself very little, most of what I've picked up has come from Youtube and web crawling.

 

[Ol'Blue]

^^^^ What he said. I use 550 cord. It is good for everything man! Light weight beaners are your friend also. Youtube is a good source for hanging idea. Practice as much as you can in the yard and also have the gear prepped so all you have to do is tie it up and you are done. That is what I did.


Blue

 

[MStudt]

I learned a lot from reading "The Ultimate Hang - An Illustrated Guide To Hammock Camping" and from reading at Sgt Rock's Hiking HQ (Hammock Camping 101). Things like strap angle and structural ridgelines matter much more than you'd think in terms of getting the hammock to lie flat, and flat is what you want. I assume you know already to hang with your body at an angle to the line made by the tree straps.

My own hammock right now is a DIY - I have a Grand Trunk single, but it's slightly too small for my 6'3" frame. My homemade sling is a 92"x130" taffeta tablecloth with Warbonnet style bunches on the ends, and it's slightly too large. Hopefully that helps you get the correct size right off the bat.

I sleep under an Aquaquest silnylon 10x7, pitched on the angle for coverage, when I bother to throw up a tarp at all, and I love it, it's completely waterproof when I pitch it right. A buddy has a cuben fiber tarp that's even awesomer, but that's bucks.

My sleeping setup on cool nights (40-60 degrees) is fleece sweats and jacket, stocking cap, synthetic 15* bag that's really more like a 35* bag, and my air pad underneath me for insulation. I still get Cold Butt Syndrome if it drops below 40* or if the pad twists out from under me, so I'd like to have a down underquilt and sleeping cap but I'm too busy spending money on my truck. I'd probably still carry the Klymit anyway just in case I have to go to ground for whatever reason.

Uh, what else? Hang low to the ground and on the lee side of a hill if you're expecting rain, wind can blow spray up underneath your tarp if you're too high off the ground. Inspect your straps daily and carry spares (or 100' of paracord), you don't wanna bust one of those in the middle of the night. Paracord is also good for drip lines hung off your straps and ridgeline so that runoff doesn't travel down the straps to you. Take the time to practice in your back yard or on short overnighters, because you probably won't sleep well the first night - there's a bit of a learning curve especially if you're a side sleeper.

I'm sure there's bunches that I'm forgetting. I've ended up teaching myself very little, most of what I've picked up has come from Youtube and web crawling.

^^^^ What he said. I use 550 cord. It is good for everything man! Light weight beaners are your friend also. Youtube is a good source for hanging idea. Practice as much as you can in the yard and also have the gear prepped so all you have to do is tie it up and you are done. That is what I did.


Blue

Wow, thanks for all the information. I'll check out the site you posted for sure. The next question is in regards to sizing. I know there are double hammocks out there, but they don't seem like two could sleep comfortably in them. I'm wondering about getting two single hammocks and maybe a larger fly to cover the two. I'm sure this has been done before, but I'm not finding anything on it. I also assume a fly that large would be better off make to cut down on the weight.

 

[KidVermicious]

I've never shared a double hammock, I'm skeptical about that too. Have ENO send you guys one, and give it a shot. If it doesn't work, have them send you another and then you both can sleep in doubles .

To run two hammocks under a single fly without them leaning against eachother would require three trees in an acute triangle at exactly the right distance - it would cut down a little bit on your ability to find the perfect camp, but certainly not undoable, and it would definitely make for a tighter and lower-impact presence.

I suppose you could stack them, but that might make getting into the upper hammock problematic.

 

[aha2988]

Wow, thanks for all the information. I'll check out the site you posted for sure. The next question is in regards to sizing. I know there are double hammocks out there, but they don't seem like two could sleep comfortably in them. I'm wondering about getting two single hammocks and maybe a larger fly to cover the two. I'm sure this has been done before, but I'm not finding anything on it. I also assume a fly that large would be better off make to cut down on the weight.

I've never shared a double hammock, I'm skeptical about that too. Have ENO send you guys one, and give it a shot. If it doesn't work, have them send you another and then you both can sleep in doubles .

To run two hammocks under a single fly without them leaning against eachother would require three trees in an acute triangle at exactly the right distance - it would cut down a little bit on your ability to find the perfect camp, but certainly not undoable, and it would definitely make for a tighter and lower-impact presence.

I suppose you could stack them, but that might make getting into the upper hammock problematic.

I've bunked hammocks before had one about 3 feet off the ground an the other about 1 foot off the ground it wasn't a rainy weekend though so the tarp was just to keep the morning due from soaking everything. I was on the bottom and stayed warmer lol. Also as the straps stretch we wound up basicly spooning that morning haha and it's difficult for the person on top to get up without waking the person on the bottom.

For sizing of the hammocks the doublenest is perfect for one person. you can wrap up in it like a cacoon so you don't have to worry so much about swallowing the flying insects. I've slept two people in a doublenest or dualnest whatever it's called and although we slept through the night you get sore on one side and have to shift so your going to wake each other up from time to time through the night but you'll get sleep. If I were going to plan on sleeping two people go for the biggest they have, they ENo double delux hammock the more room the better.

ENO makes air pad wings that are supposed to help keep the pad under you better at night. The pads like to slide out of under you and wind up on top of you in the morning if you shift around a lot. Eno also makes a hammock that has a pocket for your airpad to keep it in place but I'm not sure if they off that option in all sizes. They also offer "drip strips" to prevent rain running down your straps into your sleeping area.

as far as my setup I just run the doublenest with the dry fly rain fly and the eno slap straps I try to find tree's close enough together so that the straps don't have a far run in between the tree and the hammock to help prevent as much rain run off as possible. I also try to keep the setup as low to the ground as possible. It makes sitting with your feet on the ground easier in the morn as well as getting up in the middle of the night to pee (which in the hammock is awesome you really don't even have to get up just unzip your bag flop the hammock flap over and let it hang out lol) Just make sure your pack isn't down stream haha.

If eno is sponsoring you grab up there thermal hammock setups their website show's two different under quilt options. I can't say that the weight will be much different than carrying a tent but it may allow you to drop the zero bag and carry a lighter 20 deg bag. The rain flys they have are really nice to have on the trail as well not just for sleeping but if its just a rainy day stopping for lunch isn't so bad you can just through up the rain fly and have a dry spot to hang for a bit.

all in all I'm a huge fan of the hammocks and if i can find a practical way to keep warm with one in the winter months I'd never use a tent again. The only time i use a tent now is when my wife comes along because A, it's not practical to double up in these things, and B our dogs come along with us so it's easier to keep up with them at night to just zip them in the tent with us.



The down side to the hammock.. If it is raining really bad one day or one night you don't have the roomy tent to hang out in out of the weather. you both become confined to the space provide by the rain fly. If your toating a large tarp like an 8 by 12 you can just string up a canopy but there again more weight.

 

[MtnT4R]

+1 on the lightweight carabiners and 550 cord. Black Diamond Neutrinos are 15% off on Backcountry.com right now.

I've found that tent/tarp stakes are a waste of time and weight. just find some sticks at each campsite and use a rock to pound em in. If you would be interested in some ultralight options and great ideas, check out www.hikelight.com

 

[larrylegend]

I have a warbonnet blackbird and a eno double nest. My opinion is the eno hammocks aren't the best for backpacking. They could use a ridge line and are heavier than most brands.

If you use the eno with their slap straps, bug net and tarp you are looking at nearly as much weight as a 2 person tent. The blackbird hammock and tarp is much lighter.

I would recommend not using slap straps if you are going to use the eno and trying to set up your own suspension and ridge line.

If you are hammocking in the cold you will want a pad under you, as well as, a sleeping bag.