Finally got to test drive a new tundra

[Jetboy]

I finally got a chance to go drive a new tundra yesterday. Toyota should have waited another year. It was surprising how bad fit and finish was in a number of places. Very un Toyota like. The paint quality was not good. Heavy orange peel throughout the body panels. The panel fitments around wasn't Tesla bad, but there are a lot of little gaps in errors that is something you don't expect from a new $70,000 truck. Just misalignments, stuff like that. And what really threw me was seeing poorly fit seat covers. They weren't tight and they were wrinkles in places that aren't supposed to be wrinkles. Places like the multi panel joints in the fabric we're poorly assembled and loose fitting over top of the foam. So it just looked sloppy. The rear seat was pretty bad honestly. Some aftermarket seat covers fit better. This truck was one that a customer ordered and then declined to purchase. Maybe that was why.

The driving experience was pretty good generally. Handling was good. The lane keep assist worked well. The one I drove had the air suspension. Power was fantastic. As you'd expect. It felt unlimited in an empty truck. It was not as quiet as I expected from reading reviews.

The other things I noticed were that in a double cab or whatever they call the short crew cab, that's what I test drove because that's the first one the dealer has that hasn't been sold already so I could test drive it, the rear room is very small. The rear seat is unusable for people. It was actually very similar I think to the rear seat in our Lexus IS. Smaller than the Tacoma, smaller than a 4Runner. I'm about 6'3" and with the driver's seat in a comfortable position for me, there was less than 3 inches between the seat back and the front of the rear seat. It would not be physically possible I don't think for me to fit in the front and a similar sized person to sit behind me. I don't think I could put the front seat far enough forward without my knees being into the dash and also be able to fit in the backseat. So the only way you could fit an adult in the back would be in the center with their knees coming up over the center console area. It would for sure not be possible to put two kids seats back there and two adults in the front seats. The CrewMax is a must-have if you plan to have passengers in the back. They did not have any unsold crewmax that I could get inside. They also told me that any of the models with a 6.5 bed had been sitting on order for at least 6 months and they were not getting any deliveries. So it's possible that Toyota is not currently producing the six and a half foot bed for some reason.

And I'm a huge fan of the roll down rear window on the old tundra. The new one they should have skipped it. The rear window is tiny from the inside. It feels like sitting in a slammed hot rod or something. The amount of the rear window that's accessible above that back seat it's probably 10 inches tall. And then you have the headrests across it. So there's very little window to actually open. It's nothing at all like the old big rear window. It's more like a large vent now functionally. So that's a pretty big disappointment to me.

My take overall was that I was expecting to put in an order for one. That was the main reason I went there was to chat with the sales folks about the trade in on my forerunner when I put in the order. I usually buy for my friends dealership but they are almost 8 months back ordered right now. So I was going to order from a local dealer. After I got to check it out and test drive it - I'm now looking for a second gen. I love the turbo 6 and 10 speed. The 1794 interior is so so much better as far as the leather color and the interior materials. But they need to get the manufacturing cleaned up. Because it was not up to typical Toyota standards. The misfits seat covers and body panel misalignments would always bother me. So maybe a second or third year if you're picky about it like I would be is worth waiting.

Final thought is that the V35A would be ridiculously fun in a Tacoma or a 4Runner. Toyota has got to put it in. I really hope Toyota does a better job with the new 4runner than they did with the tundra. Most of the issues with the tundra can be fixed. The cab design sucks. But I guess I could accept that. The rest is just quality control.

 

[TexasFunRunner]

I finally got a chance to go drive a new tundra yesterday. Toyota should have waited another year. It was surprising how bad fit and finish was in a number of places. Very un Toyota like. The paint quality was not good. Heavy orange peel throughout the body panels. The panel fitments around wasn't Tesla bad, but there are a lot of little gaps in errors that is something you don't expect from a new $70,000 truck. Just misalignments, stuff like that. And what really threw me was seeing poorly fit seat covers.

But they need to get the manufacturing cleaned up. Because it was not up to typical Toyota standards. The misfits seat covers and body panel misalignments would always bother me. So maybe a second or third year if you're picky about it like I would be is worth waiting.

Final thought is that the V35A would be ridiculously fun in a Tacoma or a 4Runner. Toyota has got to put it in. I really hope Toyota does a better job with the new 4runner than they did with the tundra. Most of the issues with the tundra can be fixed. The cab design sucks. But I guess I could accept that. The rest is just quality control.

Thanks for the test drive report, sad to hear that Toyota has now hit reversion to the mean. I guess they figure, their competition is Ford, Chevy, Jeep, Dodge and Nissan so why bother trying to be better quality then their "competitors" since they can sell all they produce.

It is unfortunate but it seems Toyota America is now more interested in profits to show Japan corporate they are earning their keep, instead of maintaining or improving quality products. So the reality is, unfortunately, I guess we all just have to go back to hoping warranty will take care of the issues, regardless of the brand we buy, instead of buying a vehicle you can keep for 5 - 10 years and not worry about much going wrong on it, it seems that is fast becoming a distant memory.

 

[Jetboy]

Thanks for the test drive report, sad to hear that Toyota has now hit reversion to the mean. I guess they figure, their competition is Ford, Chevy, Jeep, Dodge and Nissan so why bother trying to be better quality then their "competitors" since they can sell all they produce.

It is unfortunate but it seems Toyota America is now more interested in profits to show Japan corporate they are earning their keep, instead of maintaining or improving quality products. So the reality is, unfortunately, I guess we all just have to go back to hoping warranty will take care of the issues instead of buying a vehicle you can keep for 5 - 10 years and not worry about much going wrong on it, it seems that is fast becoming a distant memory.

Yeah, pretty disappointing. The same factory that built the old tundra did a pretty good job. So that maybe just a first run production /supply chain/??? Issue. At least as far as the quality control issues.

The deeper problems with the cab design sacrificing functionality for style is something that I think is more attributable to being Americanized. It was comfortable. The general layout was fine. But the rear visibility was terrible. And the solution that they came up with was a whole bunch of cameras. I suppose in some sense the 4runner is also that way. Since it will be presumably another 15 years before it's updated again, this is probably the last tundra generation. Or at least the last generation that's a body on frame truck with the internal combustion engine. I still don't totally understand how it's possible that an LX 600 with that ridiculous big grill still has tow hooks, but they couldn't figure out how to put them on the tundra. I think that goes back to the design people not being truck people.

If they clean up the quality control, I think it would be a fine truck. It's just not up to the standard you would expect from Toyota. Not at the price point they're at. I'll probably take a look again in a couple years and see if they've got it sorted out. The common argument that it takes Toyota a long time to develop a new product because they're spending so much time testing it and getting all of the manufacturing kinks worked out for year one certainly isn't holding true as far as I can tell. Maybe I just saw a bad one? Not sure. It'll take some time to see if the truck is as reliable as I hope. TBH I can overlook all the cosmetics if it's a 500k mile truck.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Was the one you drove an SR5 or Limited? Apparently the Limiteds have a different windshield and front window glass to dampen outside noise? I haven't looked into it yet, but it wouldn't surprise me if it did.

The double cab does seem really short, I don't know if it's because they increased the front cab space to fit bigger people by sacrificing the rear or what, but it just looks off the moment you look at it. The crew cabs feel much much better overall. As for the fit and finish... I have to agree it's all over the place, though it seems to be steadily improving with each new batch, so I think they were in a rush to get it out this year rather than delaying it another year?

They drive surprisingly well, the new electric steering and suspension really brings confidence when you're whipping one around a roundabout or just powering around a curve. It feels fairly well planted for a big truck, even with the bed empty. The biggest issue I have with the new powertrain is the shift logic, the first couple batches we got were almost all SR5's and from a dead stop it seemed like there was a 4 second "lag" before you felt the engine really working. I wouldn't attribute all of that to turbo lag because you could feel the transmission downshifting (yes, downshifting from a dead stop with full throttle acceleration) before you felt the turbos spool up. Was really disappointing and rather annoying.

But, now that we're getting more TRDs and Limiteds I've noticed that almost 4 second lag is closer to 2? I don't know if they're updating transmission logic as they go or if they are tuning lower grade trims differently than higher grade trims? But whatever the change is, it makes the truck feel so much better and more like it should. I think Once they iron out the first model year bugs it'll be a solid workhorse.

 

[Flyer]

I have not driven the new one yet but the older model (21) was really loud. I could not tell about wind/road noise but the exhaust drone was surprising and annoying. Did this one also have the same loud exhaust sound permeating the cabin?

 

[Jetboy]

Was the one you drove an SR5 or Limited? Apparently the Limiteds have a different windshield and front window glass to dampen outside noise? I haven't looked into it yet, but it wouldn't surprise me if it did.

The double cab does seem really short, I don't know if it's because they increased the front cab space to fit bigger people by sacrificing the rear or what, but it just looks off the moment you look at it. The crew cabs feel much much better overall. As for the fit and finish... I have to agree it's all over the place, though it seems to be steadily improving with each new batch, so I think they were in a rush to get it out this year rather than delaying it another year?

They drive surprisingly well, the new electric steering and suspension really brings confidence when you're whipping one around a roundabout or just powering around a curve. It feels fairly well planted for a big truck, even with the bed empty. The biggest issue I have with the new powertrain is the shift logic, the first couple batches we got were almost all SR5's and from a dead stop it seemed like there was a 4 second "lag" before you felt the engine really working. I wouldn't attribute all of that to turbo lag because you could feel the transmission downshifting (yes, downshifting from a dead stop with full throttle acceleration) before you felt the turbos spool up. Was really disappointing and rather annoying.

But, now that we're getting more TRDs and Limiteds I've noticed that almost 4 second lag is closer to 2? I don't know if they're updating transmission logic as they go or if they are tuning lower grade trims differently than higher grade trims? But whatever the change is, it makes the truck feel so much better and more like it should. I think Once they iron out the first model year bugs it'll be a solid workhorse.

It was a loaded SR5 if that's a thing. It was an sr5 with the softex, the big screen and the surround camera system and the air suspension. Visually I couldn't tell the difference between that one and the limited. Interior. There's probably some stuff different but I can't tell. I'm not sure why you'd choose to order this truck vs a limited. I think window sticker was $53k.

It would make sense that higher trims have better sound deadening. I wasn't impressed with this one. It wasn't bad but had enough wind noise that I tried to roll up all the windows because I thought one was maybe down. I think overall it was quieter than my 4runner but more wind noise.

I didn't get to really push it at all. So I'm not sure how it really handles other than a casual trip down the highway and back. Power steering was good. I'm not sure I could tell the difference with the old one. But the lane keep was nice and unobtrusive. Way better than the GM version I drove a few years ago that was really clunky.

I didn't notice any lag. Seemed pretty responsive. The only thing that stood out was about it was that when I put it in drive it didn't move. No creep or anything. Like hill start assist sort of thing. I actually double checked that it was in drive. It didn't have any vibration at all like it was in neutral. It wasn't bad. Just different. So I had to actually push the gas pedal to start moving at all.

 

[DAW89446]

I strongly dislike the styling of the new Tundra. The other day a very clean, well kept 1st generation Tundra 4x4 showed up in an empty lot in town that people use to park vehicles they’re selling. It really appealed to me. It sold quickly.

 

[mnofpeace]

thanks for the info...it sounds like your test drive experience matches up with my dislike of the styling.

if i were in the market, i'd surely go find a previous gen Off-Rd version, and stip the 2022. V8 power in a motor that could last 500k or more...its a pick up truck, so i dont need any or any of the bells, whistles, and 'tech'

hopefully this doesnt trickle down to the next gen 4Runners...because that will piss a lot of folks off.

 

[Jetboy]

The big benefit that the new one has is the fuel efficiency and a lot more power. I think it'll be fantastic as a towing machine as long as the engine is reliable. I spend a lot of my miles on the highway and some new tech making it better for long highway trips would be nice. I wish they had updated the old body with the new interior and engine in 2014 when it should have had a major overhaul. That would be a pretty great truck.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I think the new Tundras are very much like the new Tacomas... they're rather porky and ugly stock. But take off the stupid Crimson Chin spoiler, slap some nice beefy tires, and a mild lift and the Tacomas look rather nice.

Same thing with the new Tundras, the first couple ones we lifted with some beefy tires actually looked way better. I wonder how they'll look with a good bumper and some accessories?

 

[gm350reratliff]

Looks like I’m keeping my 2017 TRD Pro Tundra double cab ( in that lovely cement grey color) for a long time.

I’ve seen several new tundras driving around this area and I’m not really a fan of the new style, especially the rear of the truck. I have yet to drive one. I’ll admit that the front of the new tundra looks much better with an aftermarket bumper. I do mostly like the interior.

However, with all the reports of bad fit and finish, mirror cameras falling off, wind noise, infotainment issues, electrical issues, turbo waste gate issues and other random issues, I’m really disappointed with Toyota. I feel one of the main reasons we buy Toyota is the perceived, often achieved, reliability and this new tundra doesn’t seem to be living up to that. It feels not only rushed but rushed during a pandemic. If I have to choose between a group of possibly unreliable trucks, I’d rather drive a ford or (gasp) ram. I feel they have the style and available features nailed down and really offer what truck buyers and enthusiasts want. Unfortunately, I don’t feel either brand overall is nearly as reliable as Toyota (was).

I’m a little worried the 4runner is going to follow this path with some of the rumors I’ve been reading. I wouldn’t be totally against a turbo 4 cylinder if Toyota can figure out how to make it reliable. The worst rumor is that 4runner production will be moving to Mexico. I’m definitely not buying a Mexico built 4runner if that happens!

 

[LimeLED]

I finally got a chance to go drive a new tundra yesterday. Toyota should have waited another year. It was surprising how bad fit and finish was in a number of places. Very un Toyota like. The paint quality was not good. Heavy orange peel throughout the body panels. The panel fitments around wasn't Tesla bad, but there are a lot of little gaps in errors that is something you don't expect from a new $70,000 truck. Just misalignments, stuff like that. And what really threw me was seeing poorly fit seat covers. They weren't tight and they were wrinkles in places that aren't supposed to be wrinkles. Places like the multi panel joints in the fabric we're poorly assembled and loose fitting over top of the foam. So it just looked sloppy. The rear seat was pretty bad honestly. Some aftermarket seat covers fit better. This truck was one that a customer ordered and then declined to purchase. Maybe that was why.

The driving experience was pretty good generally. Handling was good. The lane keep assist worked well. The one I drove had the air suspension. Power was fantastic. As you'd expect. It felt unlimited in an empty truck. It was not as quiet as I expected from reading reviews.

The other things I noticed were that in a double cab or whatever they call the short crew cab, that's what I test drove because that's the first one the dealer has that hasn't been sold already so I could test drive it, the rear room is very small. The rear seat is unusable for people. It was actually very similar I think to the rear seat in our Lexus IS. Smaller than the Tacoma, smaller than a 4Runner. I'm about 6'3" and with the driver's seat in a comfortable position for me, there was less than 3 inches between the seat back and the front of the rear seat. It would not be physically possible I don't think for me to fit in the front and a similar sized person to sit behind me. I don't think I could put the front seat far enough forward without my knees being into the dash and also be able to fit in the backseat. So the only way you could fit an adult in the back would be in the center with their knees coming up over the center console area. It would for sure not be possible to put two kids seats back there and two adults in the front seats. The CrewMax is a must-have if you plan to have passengers in the back. They did not have any unsold crewmax that I could get inside. They also told me that any of the models with a 6.5 bed had been sitting on order for at least 6 months and they were not getting any deliveries. So it's possible that Toyota is not currently producing the six and a half foot bed for some reason.

And I'm a huge fan of the roll down rear window on the old tundra. The new one they should have skipped it. The rear window is tiny from the inside. It feels like sitting in a slammed hot rod or something. The amount of the rear window that's accessible above that back seat it's probably 10 inches tall. And then you have the headrests across it. So there's very little window to actually open. It's nothing at all like the old big rear window. It's more like a large vent now functionally. So that's a pretty big disappointment to me.

My take overall was that I was expecting to put in an order for one. That was the main reason I went there was to chat with the sales folks about the trade in on my forerunner when I put in the order. I usually buy for my friends dealership but they are almost 8 months back ordered right now. So I was going to order from a local dealer. After I got to check it out and test drive it - I'm now looking for a second gen. I love the turbo 6 and 10 speed. The 1794 interior is so so much better as far as the leather color and the interior materials. But they need to get the manufacturing cleaned up. Because it was not up to typical Toyota standards. The misfits seat covers and body panel misalignments would always bother me. So maybe a second or third year if you're picky about it like I would be is worth waiting.

Final thought is that the V35A would be ridiculously fun in a Tacoma or a 4Runner. Toyota has got to put it in. I really hope Toyota does a better job with the new 4runner than they did with the tundra. Most of the issues with the tundra can be fixed. The cab design sucks. But I guess I could accept that. The rest is just quality control.

Thanks for the test drive report. Hopefully Toyota is learning from all this before the Sequoia and 4Runner releases.

 

[TexasFunRunner]

Thanks for the test drive report. Hopefully Toyota is learning from all this before the Sequoia and 4Runner releases.

Hopefully, but don't hold your breath, if they have become like Ford and the rollout of the new Bronco, it shows they simply have 1 year of experience, 120 times over, not 120 years of experience. Or in Toyota's case, 1 year of experience, 85 times over, not 85 years of experience.

Auto manufactures inexperienced staff and tight budgets don't seem to allow them to wring out the problems before launch anymore.

 

[Thai]

Hopefully, but don't hold your breath, if they have become like Ford and the rollout of the new Bronco, it shows they simply have 1 year of experience, 120 times over, not 120 years of experience. Or in Toyota's case, 1 year of experience, 85 times over, not 85 years of experience.

Auto manufactures inexperienced staff and tight budgets don't seem to allow them to wring out the problems before launch anymore.

COVID constraints on workers also do not help OEMs.

 

[Jetboy]

Following up on this, I ended up buying a gen 2.5 instead. I hate the poor fuel efficiency of the old 5.7 already. After the first 400 mi or average is 15.5. totally stock truck. I definitely like the interior layout and size of the older truck better. Much better space in the rear seat. The turbo 6 is smoother than the V8, or better isolated. It feels a lot like the V6 getting my rx350. Meaning that you basically have to look at the tach to see what RPM you're at. You can't really hear it or feel it. With the 5.7 it's pretty smooth but you definitely know when it shifts and you can both hear and feel the vibration more. The 5.7 is much louder outside of the truck also. The 3.5 is pretty quiet. To me - quieter is better.

The truck I have has the OEM Bilstein TRD off-road shock setup. They are not very good. The rear end when empty is pretty unsettled over rough highway. Especially potholes. I probably won't lift this truck. But I do think rear shocks are coming soon. I already have a set of air helper springs on the way. My first trip coming up is towing my camper from Utah to Alaska. So towing comfort is a big goal and I'll be loaded pretty heavy. The new tundra was substantially better in that respect. It had air suspension. So that probably helps some too. The front end feels actually pretty comparable. The suspension design up front is similar so it makes sense.

I'd love to see somebody make a good turbo kit for the 5.7. I don't need more power. But it's nice to avoid the nvh of dropping a gear out two up every hill. My powerstroke was really nice in that respect. It rarely ever down shifted. The boost just goes up and it pulls harder. I'd guess the TTv6 is similar. The 5.7 drops down a gear or two pretty quick.

My other thought is that the paint quality on my gen 2.5 isn't very good either. I didn't realize how bad the paint was in the tundra's until I looked a little closer. It's more uniform than the new one on my old one. It has medium heavy orange peel everywhere. So I guess it looks the same everywhere. But it's not very smooth. My 4Runner was significantly flatter paint. It may just be the case that the paint operation at the Texas factory just isn't very good compared to what they do in Japan.

 

[gm350reratliff]

Following up on this, I ended up buying a gen 2.5 instead. I hate the poor fuel efficiency of the old 5.7 already. After the first 400 mi or average is 15.5. totally stock truck. I definitely like the interior layout and size of the older truck better. Much better space in the rear seat. The turbo 6 is smoother than the V8, or better isolated. It feels a lot like the V6 getting my rx350. Meaning that you basically have to look at the tach to see what RPM you're at. You can't really hear it or feel it. With the 5.7 it's pretty smooth but you definitely know when it shifts and you can both hear and feel the vibration more. The 5.7 is much louder outside of the truck also. The 3.5 is pretty quiet. To me - quieter is better.

The truck I have has the OEM Bilstein TRD off-road shock setup. They are not very good. The rear end when empty is pretty unsettled over rough highway. Especially potholes. I probably won't lift this truck. But I do think rear shocks are coming soon. I already have a set of air helper springs on the way. My first trip coming up is towing my camper from Utah to Alaska. So towing comfort is a big goal and I'll be loaded pretty heavy. The new tundra was substantially better in that respect. It had air suspension. So that probably helps some too. The front end feels actually pretty comparable. The suspension design up front is similar so it makes sense.

I'd love to see somebody make a good turbo kit for the 5.7. I don't need more power. But it's nice to avoid the nvh of dropping a gear out two up every hill. My powerstroke was really nice in that respect. It rarely ever down shifted. The boost just goes up and it pulls harder. I'd guess the TTv6 is similar. The 5.7 drops down a gear or two pretty quick.

My other thought is that the paint quality on my gen 2.5 isn't very good either. I didn't realize how bad the paint was in the tundra's until I looked a little closer. It's more uniform than the new one on my old one. It has medium heavy orange peel everywhere. So I guess it looks the same everywhere. But it's not very smooth. My 4Runner was significantly flatter paint. It may just be the case that the paint operation at the Texas factory just isn't very good compared to what they do in Japan.

Yeah, the mpg isn't very good but it's about par for the course. With my tundra, I get roughly 14.5 in the city with 34" tires. For comparison, my ecoboost f150 could only do 12 in the same conditions with roughly the same size tire. We took a trip to Scottsdale last month and the tundra got 16.5 on the way there and 17.5 on the way back. That's actually better than my ecoboost could do on the same trip. Before the ecoboost, I had a 5.3 Z71 chevy. While it was somewhat reliable and got better mpg, it was gutless.

The TRD off-road suspension kind of sucks. I've driven a few with it and I'm not impressed. I do like the TRD Pro Bilstein suspension on my 2017 Tundra. The harder you push it, the better it gets. It soaks up the bumps pretty good, better than my King/Bilstein setup on my 4th gen but not quite as good as the Accu-tuned Kings on my buddy's Taco. I would try to find some TRD Pro take-offs, either Bilstein or Fox and it'll be much better than you have now. I would also do some better rear shackles with greased poly bushings. I have the Coachbuilder +2 on my Tundra and they made a very nice difference to the ride.

I do feel the same about the paint quality. It's not quite as glossy as my 4runners. I have clay barred mine a few times along with a good polish and wax and I feel it is better, just not quite the same as the 4runners.

As for towing, the tundra is the best 1/2 ton tow vehicle out there. My ecoboost had more power (when it was running correctly) but didn't feel anywhere near as stable as the tundra does while pulling our 30' Grand Design camper. There's always ample power while towing and it never complains or gets hot. MPG can be pretty low while towing but I knew that going in. All that being said, you won't mistake the tundra for a 3/4 or 1-ton truck while towing but you won't mistake it for another 1/2 ton truck either. I'm hoping to install a super charger on mine at some point which really should wake it up.