Bad engine mounts?

M

Mean Kitty

Junior Member
A few months back I replaced both my engine mounts and transmission mount because the driver side engine mount had separated. Everything seemed good for a few thousand miles, and then I got a crack in the pipe going to the catalytic converter, I figured this was probably from the broken mount and the engine moving around more than it should be. So I just welded it up, and all was good. I recently just did a cross country trip in the 4runner, and a couple thousand miles in, the pipe before the cat cracked again, but in a different spot. While in route to a shop that could take a look at this the pipe completely broke off, and I ended up getting a new cat and pipe installed. Figured the pipe was probably fatigued from so many hot/cold cycles, and then the bad motor mount etc... 3000 miles later, I took a look under the truck, and noticed some hair line cracks forming in the new pipe, so I am thinking there must be to much play in the engine mounts. I took a video tonight of the standard put it in drive while holding down the brake and rev the engine to look for movement. And then the same while in reverse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1airk3ygus&feature=youtu.be

What do you guys think, does this look like to much movement? Is it possible, I just got some bad mounts where the rubber is to soft? I purchased these from McGeorge Toyota, so they should be the real deal. Anyways, looking for idea what to check next. The engine mounts still looked good, and I could not see any separation or tears while doing the above test. Looking for any input, thanks so much!

Oh, this is a 2002 4runner, 345k miles, original motor/transmission regular SR5 4wd model. It is lifted with a toytec/bilstein lift on 33's KO2s. None of that probably matters, but you never know :)
 
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That is not a lot of engine movement. Could it be the pipe that cracked is just original and was micro cracked before and now just opened up?
 
Mean Kitty said:
Actually the new piece of pipe that the muffler shop welded in to attach the new cat is cracking.
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In the cat areas, the pipe is still attached to the engine after the last cat is where the rubber mount goes to frame. Interesting. I run northern stainless from cats back for costs reasons, I haven't seen anything crack unless it rusted super thin across many 3rd gens running v6. Now the flanges do rot away. :-(
 
Probably not it but the only thing that comes to mind, is the support bracket between the bell housing and down pipe in place? I know with the older 22R/RE trucks people wouldn't bother reinstalling them and eventually the exhaust manifold studs would start pulling out of the head. Repeatedly cracking exhaust pipe is strange.

The exhaust should freely move with the engine. Are the stock rubber exhaust mounts in placed? I cant imagine someone would hard mount the exhaust but you never know.
 
NachesPass4x4 said:
Probably not it but the only thing that comes to mind, is the support bracket between the bell housing and down pipe in place? I know with the older 22R/RE trucks people wouldn't bother reinstalling them and eventually the exhaust manifold studs would start pulling out of the head. Repeatedly cracking exhaust pipe is strange.

The exhaust should freely move with the engine. Are the stock rubber exhaust mounts in placed? I cant imagine someone would hard mount the exhaust but you never know.
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I could be wrong, but I think they did away with that bolt in the 01 and 02 as they have dual cats. I think the 1996 -1998 had that bolt. Not sure if the 1999 -2000 still have that bracket.
 
brillo_76 said:
I could be wrong, but I think they did away with that bolt in the 01 and 02 as they have dual cats. I think the 1996 -1998 had that bolt. Not sure if the 1999 -2000 still have that bracket.
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I can confirm 2000 SR5 5speed has the bracket. I don't know about the others. I don't know why they would eliminate it.
 
brillo_76 said:
In the cat areas, the pipe is still attached to the engine after the last cat is where the rubber mount goes to frame. Interesting. I run northern stainless from cats back for costs reasons, I haven't seen anything crack unless it rusted super thin across many 3rd gens running v6. Now the flanges do rot away. :-(
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So I have the model with the two cats, the first hanger that is mounted to the frame is right after where the first cat ends, then goes into the second cat.

After crawling around under there checking to make sure all mounts seem to be in good shape, I noticed that the horseshoe shaped dampener attached to the transfer case the rubber has let go of the weight and its just hanging there. I wonder if this could be possibly causing things to vibrate more than they should or if that weight is flopping around while driving. Wish I still had a go pro to mount under there to see what is going on while driving.

Thanks for the input on the engine, and stating that it doesn't seem to be moving abnormally or more than normal.

Another possible idea, but just probably an unlikely guess, when I am trying to get up to speed on some steeper grade highways in the mountains, I will notice once in a while when climbing and trying to accelerate and the transmission downshifts the engine will kinda jar while shifting. I have not gotten any misfire codes or shift solenoid codes. Not sure if the engine misfired if that could cause abnormal movement that could crack the exhaust. Also not sure if you had a couple misfires if the ecu would throw a code?
 
Mean Kitty said:
So I have the model with the two cats, the first hanger that is mounted to the frame is right after where the first cat ends, then goes into the second cat.

After crawling around under there checking to make sure all mounts seem to be in good shape, I noticed that the horseshoe shaped dampener attached to the transfer case the rubber has let go of the weight and its just hanging there. I wonder if this could be possibly causing things to vibrate more than they should or if that weight is flopping around while driving. Wish I still had a go pro to mount under there to see what is going on while driving.

Thanks for the input on the engine, and stating that it doesn't seem to be moving abnormally or more than normal.

Another possible idea, but just probably an unlikely guess, when I am trying to get up to speed on some steeper grade highways in the mountains, I will notice once in a while when climbing and trying to accelerate and the transmission downshifts the engine will kinda jar while shifting. I have not gotten any misfire codes or shift solenoid codes. Not sure if the engine misfired if that could cause abnormal movement that could crack the exhaust. Also not sure if you had a couple misfires if the ecu would throw a code?
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That weight helps remove vibration. If the rubber is gone. I replace it. :-)

Also check the transmission mount that sits on the crossmember. They are known as they age to come apart and vibrate more.
 
Transmission mount is good, I replaced it with the engine mounts. Checking around for the dampener, I think they must of a little bit of gold in them or something, they are crazy expensive! $300+. Its almost cheaper to buy a used transfer case that has one still attached. Of course with it being that old, its probably close to its end of life as well.

As goofy as it sounds, I might try using some zip ties to snug the dampener back together and see if that changes anything vibration wise.

Thanks for the feedback too :)
 
I removed the transfer case dampener YEARS ago because it interfered with my skid plates... no noticeable difference in vibrations. I'm sure it does SOMETHING, but it isn't major - it is a few lbs vs. hundreds in the engine/transmission assembly.

-Charlie
 
Thanks guys, I think I will just unbolt it and see if there is any noticeable difference. Not that I'll probably notice, since its probably been dangling around for a while now by the looks of it. I am going to email the ToJo center too and see if they can ship to the US, that looks like a much better option then everything else I've see so far. It sure would be cool if someone like Energy Suspension could make a replacement dampner repair kit like that, I bet it would be a popular item.
 
I think I have one of those off a 1st Gen Taco somewhere. IIRC, removing it didn't make any difference vibration wise.
 
I wonder why Toyota left those on the transfers if they don't seem to make much of a difference. I haven't seen one of those go bad.. Mostly only the transmission mount. Interesting.
 
brillo_76 said:
I wonder why Toyota left those on the transfers if they don't seem to make much of a difference. I haven't seen one of those go bad.. Mostly only the transmission mount. Interesting.
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You'll see stuff like that on a ton of Toyotas... It'll be for some vibration at a certain RPM/load or road speed, etc. Now that we have all different things on our vehicles (tires, gearing, prop shafts, shocks, mounts, etc.) those dampeners probably have no effect on the 'new' vibration frequencies.

-Charlie
 
Thanks for all the input guys. Yesterday I took the mount off, and checked the rear drive shaft to see if maybe there was an issue with the u-joints. Found out that the plate that attaches the rear driveshaft to the transfer case had quite a bit of movement in it. So unbolted the driveshaft figuring maybe a bearing might be going bad, and it looks like the nut that was staked well enough on the output shaft. Took it off and pulled the plate off just to check on the output shaft, it seemed nice and solid. So put the plate back on, and re-torqued the stake nut. And everything seems much more solid. I am thinking possibly my issue may have happened from the play in the driveshaft. Will drive it around for a bit and see what happens.
 
Mean Kitty said:
Thanks for all the input guys. Yesterday I took the mount off, and checked the rear drive shaft to see if maybe there was an issue with the u-joints. Found out that the plate that attaches the rear driveshaft to the transfer case had quite a bit of movement in it. So unbolted the driveshaft figuring maybe a bearing might be going bad, and it looks like the nut that was staked well enough on the output shaft. Took it off and pulled the plate off just to check on the output shaft, it seemed nice and solid. So put the plate back on, and re-torqued the stake nut. And everything seems much more solid. I am thinking possibly my issue may have happened from the play in the driveshaft. Will drive it around for a bit and see what happens.
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Just wanted to post an update on my situation. Got everything back together probably a month back. I ended up removing the dampener, that did seem to make a notable difference, so the fact that the rubber had detached, I think was allowing excess vibrations at certain times on the highway at certain speeds. Removing it made the 4 hi/low stick have alot less vibrations. I just got back from a 3500mile trip, and no issues with the exaust system. So I am guessing that the combination of the dampener, or the adapter plate for the rear drive shaft was probably what was causing all my issues. Pretty excited to hopefully have this issue resolved. Fingers crossed :)
 
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