Bad Shocks or Bad springs?

[shahsmerdis]

Hey Everyone,
So I can't seem to get clear answer. And at this point I might just change everything one by one until I find the issue.

So I had all my shocks and struts replaced with OEM.

When I go over a speed bump, the front is rock solid. Absorbs the bump. When I go over the rear, the car jumps up. It doesn't oscillate. Just a solid jump and a squeak.

there is about 1-2 inches between bump stop and axle. Is this normal?

I Really don't trust who ever install the rear shocks, but I had to get an inspection pass and couldn't drive it far since the rear shock broke off. Is there anything that cause a rear shock install to go bad? its a simple connection, but these guys were pretty stupid.

At this point I might change both just for the sake of changing it because I'm so fed up.

Edit: I guess I can change the rear shocks again, if they are bad toyota will warranty them. if its not then I found out it is not the issue...? I really don't want to just throw parts at this car given its age.
Thanks!

 

[Bijan]

Hey Everyone,
So I can't seem to get clear answer. And at this point I might just change everything one by one until I find the issue.

So I had all my shocks and struts replaced with OEM.

When I go over a speed bump, the front is rock solid. Absorbs the bump. When I go over the rear, the car jumps up. It doesn't oscillate. Just a solid jump and a squeak.

there is about 1-2 inches between bump stop and axle. Is this normal?

I Really don't trust who ever install the rear shocks, but I had to get an inspection pass and couldn't drive it far since the rear shock broke off. Is there anything that cause a rear shock install to go bad? its a simple connection, but these guys were pretty stupid.

At this point I might change both just for the sake of changing it because I'm so fed up.

Edit: I guess I can change the rear shocks again, if they are bad toyota will warranty them. if its not then I found out it is not the issue...? I really don't want to just throw parts at this car given its age.
Thanks!

What's your tire pressure?

 

[3bears]

rear shock broke off ?

poor install...or ...well ......you live in the rust belt...anything goes in the rust belt

 

[shahsmerdis]

What's your tire pressure?

they were at 46 before when I was like WTF, put it down to 32. Its probably now 30 with the cold weather. that helpped improve tire balancing but still jumpy rear end.

rear shock broke off ?

poor install...or ...well ......you live in the rust belt...anything goes in the rust belt

Yeah its pretty common for the top nut to rust off or fall off, i think its torqued to 14 foot pounds. This was the old shocks. new shocks havent fall apart yet as far as I know. Maybe it was flexed on install and never seated right.

 

[alumarine]

These trucks are light in the back end.
I think the back will always feel like it's hopping over speed bumps more than the front.
Pretty hard to screw up a shock replacement.

 

[shahsmerdis]

These trucks are light in the back end.
I think the back will always feel like it's hopping over speed bumps more than the front.
Pretty hard to screw up a shock replacement.

well it feels like its being pushed up, hence why i think its hitting the bump stops.
Don't under estimate stupidity, they over torqued our lug nuts till they snapped.

 

[mckennar]

there is about 1-2 inches between bump stop and axle. Is this normal?

For reference, my '98 4x4 with ~5,000 mile old 99 "tall" rear springs, when unloaded, is almost exactly 2.5" from lower spring perch to the bump stop (I just went out and measured). My '98 with sagging original '98 springs has less than 1". It's so close I couldn't get the tape measure in there.

The truck with the '99 talls doesn't exhibit what you're referencing, the truck with the sagging '98 springs does exactly what you describe over speed bumps.

I'd measure it, but if you have 2" that sounds about right to me.

Might be odd but have you tried greasing the slip yoke on your rear driveshaft? Sometimes when mine gets dry it feels like a bump or thud.

You might want to check their work - stick a camera phone up and over the top shock mounts on each side to make sure they didn't screw it up. Make sure the springs are properly seated in their perches top and bottom.

Or get under it and have a friend jump on your trailer hitch while you listen for noises. See if you can isolate it.

Good luck!

 

[csp]

The job of the shocks is to dampen rebound. If it isn't bouncing after going over bumps or potholes the shocks are doing what they are intended to do.

 

[shahsmerdis]

For reference, my '98 4x4 with ~5,000 mile old 99 "tall" rear springs, when unloaded, is almost exactly 2.5" from lower spring perch to the bump stop (I just went out and measured). My '98 with sagging original '98 springs has less than 1". It's so close I couldn't get the tape measure in there.

The truck with the '99 talls doesn't exhibit what you're referencing, the truck with the sagging '98 springs does exactly what you describe over speed bumps.

I'd measure it, but if you have 2" that sounds about right to me.

Might be odd but have you tried greasing the slip yoke on your rear driveshaft? Sometimes when mine gets dry it feels like a bump or thud.

You might want to check their work - stick a camera phone up and over the top shock mounts on each side to make sure they didn't screw it up. Make sure the springs are properly seated in their perches top and bottom.

Or get under it and have a friend jump on your trailer hitch while you listen for noises. See if you can isolate it.

Good luck!

thank you so much for getting your hands dirty for me! I truly apprciiate this. This is exactly the number I was looking for. I am not exactly sure what the distance is on mine but its somewhere between an inch or two.

Drive shaft was lubed ~8 months ago. Maybe it needs more?

I know the 01 and 02 were different than the 99's just not sure what was different. I'll have to go check. I assume you went with oem 99's?

any examples you could give me of how your car behaved before and after I'd greatly appreciate. What made you choose to do the springs? Did you do shocks first, then struts or together?

Thank you !!

 

[shahsmerdis]

picture of my rear spring, of course spring got in the way, not exactly sure if its 2 inches. I'll go in with tape measure when its light outside.

 

[RunnerRnd2]

Can't give much insight to the broken shock but I've owned 5 toyotas, 3 tacoma and 2 4runners some lifted and some not but honestly all of them felt pretty rough on the back end going over speed bumps. I think its kind of just the nature of the beast.

 

[98Fizzy]

Wow.. You got a pic of the whole trucks side to see how she's sitting?
That's low in the back if you ask me.

 

[shahsmerdis]

The ride is ajaring, and i don't want to blindly spend money. My guess its a combo of this and tires.

Oh rear shocks are not broken, they were broken, but fixed with OEM shocks, just I thought it would ride like new shocks, but still ride like crap. Front rides very well though.

 

[shahsmerdis]

Wow.. You got a pic of the whole trucks side to see how she's sitting?
That's low in the back if you ask me.

let me see if i have one. it doesn't seem to be sitting low . ive seen picture of sagging 4runners, nothing like that. but it is pretty darn close.

 

[mckennar]

let me see if i have one. it doesn't seem to be sitting low . ive seen picture of sagging 4runners, nothing like that. but it is pretty darn close.

That's what my sagging '98 w/344k mile OEM springs looks like. I bet you won't even be able to fit your fingers between the bump stop and the lower perch. From the looks of it I'd say it's less than 1". You have to measure from the bottom of the bump stop to where the bump stop would hit the metal stopper vs. bump stop to bottom coil.

Ref: how the truck rode before and after the '99 talls. I would lube my slip yoke every 3 months with each oil change, and it would still "stick" whenever I'd stop at stoplights. Felt like someone was kicking the back of my driver's seat.

I chose the 99 talls because at the time I didn't tow or haul much and wanted to get rid of the sag without getting too much rake. I did not change the shocks at the time, they had about 60k on them. Restoring the ride height in the back made the truck ride like normal again. No more bottoming out on the bump stops when hitting speed bumps or accelerating from stoplights, and the slip yoke didn't thud like it had previously. It even felt snappier on acceleration because it didn't squat so much.

Here's a picture of what my truck looked like before the '99 talls: http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah307/mckennar/4Runner/1c_zpslpnikrip.jpg

And here's a picture of what it looked like after: http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah307/mckennar/4Runner/20140927_130021_zps9ugedoku.jpg

Both are really far off but just look at the wheel clearance in the rear wheel well for reference there's almost a 2" difference.

 

[98Fizzy]

Okay. Let me know if you got my message with number. Didn't realize you had messaged me some days ago. I'm always around so if you want to to swing thru.. just let me know.

 

[shahsmerdis]

Have a similar issue. I have ordered new coil spring from Sterling spring manufacturer. I will replace them soon. We'll see if it makes any difference

Are they a custom fab? I see nothing specific in regards to toyota springs.

in any case im curious if this fixes your issues too. Please post back once you have them installed

 

[shahsmerdis]

That's what my sagging '98 w/344k mile OEM springs looks like. I bet you won't even be able to fit your fingers between the bump stop and the lower perch. From the looks of it I'd say it's less than 1". You have to measure from the bottom of the bump stop to where the bump stop would hit the metal stopper vs. bump stop to bottom coil.

Ref: how the truck rode before and after the '99 talls. I would lube my slip yoke every 3 months with each oil change, and it would still "stick" whenever I'd stop at stoplights. Felt like someone was kicking the back of my driver's seat.

I chose the 99 talls because at the time I didn't tow or haul much and wanted to get rid of the sag without getting too much rake. I did not change the shocks at the time, they had about 60k on them. Restoring the ride height in the back made the truck ride like normal again. No more bottoming out on the bump stops when hitting speed bumps or accelerating from stoplights, and the slip yoke didn't thud like it had previously. It even felt snappier on acceleration because it didn't squat so much.

Here's a picture of what my truck looked like before the '99 talls: http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah307/mckennar/4Runner/1c_zpslpnikrip.jpg

And here's a picture of what it looked like after: http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah307/mckennar/4Runner/20140927_130021_zps9ugedoku.jpg

Both are really far off but just look at the wheel clearance in the rear wheel well for reference there's almost a 2" difference.

wow because of this I am going to change them. And pretty confident this will fix the issue... thank you for sharing! I was hoping to get away with moog springs, but i hear that just doesn't work as well as oem. I'm debating if i should put 02 springs or 99 springs now. Not sure if it needs to be balanced with the front suspension or if that all makes a difference. Endlinks and bushings are shot so Ill do all of those in one go. but looks like that will be about 250-300 dollars + Labor. sounds like your springs were worse than mine, i only have problems when i drive under uneven roads. the only vibration i feel on freshly paved road is the imbalanced tires, but that is another issue.

Thank you for the pictures. I don't suppose I could trouble you to taking pictures of where your bump stop meets the springs next time you are under your car?

The car probably drove 6months to a year before my dad went a head and fixed the shock ( I Was college at the time or else I would have been on his case) I am wondering if that constant extra up and down put strain on the springs.

 

[mckennar]

Thank you for the pictures. I don't suppose I could trouble you to taking pictures of where your bump stop meets the springs next time you are under your car?

First is hub center to fender on the '98 with sagging springs. It's far from scientific but should be a good reference (ignore the badly cupped tire):
http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah307/mckennar/4Runner/20161005_203721_zpsutffmjk5.jpg

Second is hub center to fender on the '98 with '99 tall springs... again far from scientific but the best I can do with one hand holding the tape measure and the other a potato phone (ignore the completely bald tire - this is a parts truck):
http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah307/mckennar/4Runner/20161005_203721_zpsutffmjk5.jpg

Third is top of the spring where it meets the bump stop on '99 tall springs:
http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah307/mckennar/4Runner/20161005_203909_zpsx4zxenwe.jpg

Finally, bottom of spring where bump stop meets axle on '99 tall springs. I couldn't get a tape measure in there while trying to balance myself on my side under the truck and using the stupid camera phone I have, but it's north of 2":
http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah307/mckennar/4Runner/20161005_204009_zpskc7a0u21.jpg

Hope these help and good luck sorting the ride of your truck!

 

[shahsmerdis]

Wow ! look at all that extra space!!!!! you have at least 2x the space than I do.
Holy cow! Rear springs and rear shocks should go hand in hand no matter what...

Hats off to you for getting under your truck.

what am I looking for at the top of the spring? Just curious.

Thank you so much! (Don't worry my tires are worse, will be replaced soon)