Bad vibes after lift install - Solved? Solved!

[thezentree]

7/16/21 - one last shot at driveshaft straighten and balance fixed it.

4/3/18 - Driveshaft and pinion angle.

3/23/18 - I think it’s the CVs, driveshaft, and pinion angle. See last post.

1/27/18 - it's gotta be the CV axles. see last post

12/4 - Vibrations are tolerable, but still present. Heavy 285s seem to exacerbate it. See page 3 post.

11/13 - vibrations went away for like 30 miles after ECGS bushing install and new OEM CV axles, then came back after 10-15 miles of interstate driving.

10/30 - vibrations are back, now with steering wheel shake. See update page 3

10/23 - I swapped the front coilovers for a set of BOSS coilovers with 550lb/in springs set to 2.75" (down from around 4") and that appears to have almost entirely eliminated the vibrations. It also rides waaay better. There's still a slight rumble/resonance at highway speeds, but I can't really feel it, just hear it a little, if I'm really looking for it.

After installing my lift (3"toytec/eibach) last weekend, I took my 4R on the highway earlier today and realized I've got some pretty significant vibration at highway speeds. It feels like a bad washboard road. Vibrations vary with wheelspeed, but it's noticeable at around 50mph, then bad at 58-62mph, and then again around 70mph. Throttle on or off doesn't seem to make much difference in 2WD, but throttle makes the vibrations significantly worse in AWD. It's pretty high frequency and I can feel it more through the steering wheel and floorboard than I can the t-case shifter, but that may not mean much. I did inner and outer TREs and LBJs a month or two ago, and the SPC UCAs come with new UBJs. Steering rack bushings are OEM but look ok.

Anyone run into vibrations like this? I'm about $3k deep into this with the lift, front UCAs, panhard, wheel spacers, tires, Tom Woods driveshaft, and new CV axles so I don't want to start throwing more parts at it without narrowing it down to a few culprits (although I don't know what other parts I COULD throw at it at this point..). I've got about 40 miles every day on the interstate with my commute, so I've GOT to fix this.

Things I have done as of 1/27 that have not worked:

- Rotate and road force balance tires at two different shops
- New rear Tom Woods driveshaft
- New NAPA reman CV axles
- Removed Spidertrax spacers
- Removed diff drop
- Reduced rear pinion angle to 3°
- Replaced all 4 tires
- Removed front driveshaft
- Replaced steering rack bushings
- Swapped to BOSS coilovers up front at 2.75" lift to reduce CV angle
- Bought 245s on OEM wheels
- ECGS front diff bushing install
- New OEM reman CV axles
- Swapped Toytec rear springs for OME 890s (dropped rear ~1/2" to 3/4")
- Reinstalled OEM panhard bar (rubber bushings vs heims)
- Replaced all 4 tires with SL265/75R16 AT3Ws
- Metal Tech 4x4 adjustable rear upper links (+3/16" from OEM)

 

[96RedRunner]

Steering wheel vibes usually mean front end, seat bottom vibes rear.
When doing in depth work like a lift, Big question to ask is did I torque everything.
When did vibes start?
Soon as it hit the ground, after alignment they don't always torque stuff, few miles down the road?
Diff drop, if you did one, doesn't change angle enough too cause a problem.
3" OME on 01 Feb 3k miles didn't create any driveline problems.
Break the work you did into sections, eyeball it, snatch, jerk, check torque, grease drive shafts for the hell of it..

 

[nc-grayson]

After installing my lift (3"toytec/eibach) last weekend, I took my 4R on the highway earlier today and realized I've got some pretty significant vibration at highway speeds. I've changed a lot of things over the past week, so it'll be hard to pinpoint it but my best guess right now is the driveshaft u-joint angle.

Vibrations vary with wheelspeed, but it's noticeable at around 50mph, then bad at 58-62mph, and then again around 70mph. Throttle on or off doesn't seem to make much difference. It's pretty high frequency and I can feel it more through the steering wheel and floorboard than I can the t-case shifter, but that may not mean much.

Anyone run into vibrations like this? I'm about $3k deep into this with the lift, front UCAs, panhard, wheel spacers, and tires, so I don't want to start throwing parts at it without narrowing it down to a few culprits. I've got about 40 miles every day on the interstate with my commute, so I've GOT to fix this.

I couldn't have started a more identical post myself, other than the fact that I'm on a SS 1.2 lift, but exactly the same symptoms.

I do not have a solution to offer, I'm still dealing with it myself.

First thought was the steering rack.....had some play in it to begin with and I'm sure the lift just only amplified that. I also feel like it could be a drive shaft balance issue.

Steering rack is first on my list.....I'm thinking that'll be a huge improvement.

Seriously no joke, everything about your post is identical to my current experience.

edit: the steering rack would definitely be noticeable as something new if lifting in fact "amplifies" the worn rack faster. The drive shaft could be, and could have been, out of balance for a while.....it's just not every day that you get up to over 70mph to experience those new vibs

 

[Scramble]

Most likely it's the double cardan joint in your driveshaft. They wear out over time & vibrations occur with the increased pinion angle. There're plenty of threads on this so read up on the different solutions.

 

[thezentree]

Steering wheel vibes usually mean front end, seat bottom vibes rear.
When doing in depth work like a lift, Big question to ask is did I torque everything.
When did vibes start?
Soon as it hit the ground, after alignment they don't always torque stuff, few miles down the road?
Diff drop, if you did one, doesn't change angle enough too cause a problem.
3" OME on 01 Feb 3k miles didn't create any driveline problems.
Break the work you did into sections, eyeball it, snatch, jerk, check torque, grease drive shafts for the hell of it..

I double checked torque on everything when I finished and all the joints the alignment shop would have touched after it came back from the alignment, so I don't think that's the issue.

I've been driving it around town for almost a week and today is the first I've noticed it, but as soon as I got under 50mph, it goes away. I'm going to go triple check everything and grease the driveshaft just to be sure.

I couldn't have started a more identical post myself, other than the fact that I'm on a SS 1.2 lift, but exactly the same symptoms.

I do not have a solution to offer, I'm still dealing with it myself.

First thought was the steering rack.....had some play in it to begin with and I'm sure the lift just only amplified that. I also feel like it could be a drive shaft balance issue.

Steering rack is first on my list.....I'm thinking that'll be a huge improvement.

Seriously no joke, everything about your post is identical to my current experience.

edit: the steering rack would definitely be noticeable as something new if lifting in fact "amplifies" the worn rack faster. The drive shaft could be, and could have been, out of balance for a while.....it's just not every day that you get up to over 70mph to experience those new vibs

Weird. Same speed ranges even? That makes me think even more it's a driveshaft angle issue.

I've been DD'ing this for a few months, and that includes 75-80mph twice a day on the interstate, so I don't think it's a DS balance issue or I feel like I'd have noticed it.

BTW, I grew up in Wilmington and am down there a few times a year. I'll give you a shout next time I'm down that way, maybe we can meet up.

Most likely it's the double cardan joint in your driveshaft. They wear out over time & vibrations occur with the increased pinion angle. There're plenty of threads on this so read up on the different solutions.

I'm afraid you're going to be right.

 

[nc-grayson]

I double checked torque on everything when I finished and all the joints the alignment shop would have touched after it came back from the alignment, so I don't think that's the issue.

I've been driving it around town for almost a week and today is the first I've noticed it, but as soon as I got under 50mph, it goes away. I'm going to go triple check everything and grease the driveshaft just to be sure.




Weird. Same speed ranges even? That makes me think even more it's a driveshaft angle issue.

I've been DD'ing this for a few months, and that includes 75-80mph twice a day on the interstate, so I don't think it's a DS balance issue or I feel like I'd have noticed it.

BTW, I grew up in Wilmington and am down there a few times a year. I'll give you a shout next time I'm down that way, maybe we can meet up.

Pretty much the EXACT same speeds. nothing at 50mph, but 58-62 is wobbly. 69-72 wobbly, and 77 by itself is wobbly.

That's about as fast as I go lol.

Hit me up!

 

[thezentree]

I greased the driveshaft and broke some traffic laws on the beltline, and the vibration is still there. It might have been a little bit less harsh, but I was on a different road surface than this morning too.

I yanked on the driveshaft pretty hard while I was under the car and it didn't budge at all, so I don't think worn out parts are to blame.

Has anyone heard of wheel spacers causing a vibration like that? As was mentioned earlier in the thread, a lot of vibration is coming through the steering wheel, which indicates a front end problem, but everything up there is tight.

 

[Tyler James Inc]

Has anyone heard of wheel spacers causing a vibration like that?

Yes; absolutely.
But, I remember you saying you got Soidertrax spacers, right? Those are hub-centric, and shouldn't be CAUSING the vibration. If your wheel/tire combo is out of balance, the wheel spacers will magnify the vibe, due to the lever effect on the balljoints.
More times than not, vibrations are from wheel/tire combos. People find loose/worn parts in their search for the cause, but the worn parts are rarely the root cause. Albeit frustrating it didn't fix the vibe, it's never a bad thing to be replacing worn parts!
If your spacers are NOT Spidertrax/hub-centric, they definitely COULD be the root cause of your vibration.
Although replacing the sway bar bushings and steering rack bushings definitely tightened up my front end, and made the vibe on my '97 much less "loose" feeling, it didnt have an actual affect on the vibe itself, only how it was transferred to me.

Unfortunately, it might be an issue with your wheels. I've had two sets of those wheels, and my buddy is currently running a third set. Three sets of 5-stars on three different rigs- they all had vibration issues that I was unable to solve. Had a tire shop rebalance both sets I had, and even spun one of the tires on a wheel, and never fixed the vibe.
I had one set with 285/75R16 KM2
Another set with stock 265/70R16 highway coopers with excellent tread
And my buddy has 265/75R16 Duratracs currently.
Hopefully it isn't an issue with the wheels, but due to the headache they caused me- I'll never own another set. Which sucks, cause I love the wheel.
For the record- without changing ANYTHING else- when I got new wheels and tires, my vibration went away 100%.

 

[thezentree]

Yes; absolutely.
But, I remember you saying you got Soidertrax spacers, right? Those are hub-centric, and shouldn't be CAUSING the vibration. If your wheel/tire combo is out of balance, the wheel spacers will magnify the vibe, due to the lever effect on the balljoints.
More times than not, vibrations are from wheel/tire combos. People find loose/worn parts in their search for the cause, but the worn parts are rarely the root cause. Albeit frustrating it didn't fix the vibe, it's never a bad thing to be replacing worn parts!
If your spacers are NOT Spidertrax/hub-centric, they definitely COULD be the root cause of your vibration.
Although replacing the sway bar bushings and steering rack bushings definitely tightened up my front end, and made the vibe on my '97 much less "loose" feeling, it didnt have an actual affect on the vibe itself, only how it was transferred to me.

Unfortunately, it might be an issue with your wheels. I've had two sets of those wheels, and my buddy is currently running a third set. Three sets of 5-stars on three different rigs- they all had vibration issues that I was unable to solve. Had a tire shop rebalance both sets I had, and even spun one of the tires on a wheel, and never fixed the vibe.
I had one set with 285/75R16 KM2
Another set with stock 265/70R16 highway coopers with excellent tread
And my buddy has 265/75R16 Duratracs currently.
Hopefully it isn't an issue with the wheels, but due to the headache they caused me- I'll never own another set. Which sucks, cause I love the wheel.
For the record- without changing ANYTHING else- when I got new wheels and tires, my vibration went away 100%.

Yep, they are Spidertrax.

I guess I'll drop it off at another tire shop and ask them to rebalance the wheels and tires. I don't THINK it's a wheel issue because I never noticed any vibrations like this before the lift and tires but I can see what you're saying about the spacers amplifying it.

 

[Scramble]

I greased the driveshaft and broke some traffic laws on the beltline, and the vibration is still there. It might have been a little bit less harsh, but I was on a different road surface than this morning too.

I yanked on the driveshaft pretty hard while I was under the car and it didn't budge at all, so I don't think worn out parts are to blame.

Has anyone heard of wheel spacers causing a vibration like that? As was mentioned earlier in the thread, a lot of vibration is coming through the steering wheel, which indicates a front end problem, but everything up there is tight.

My DC joint showed no play until I took the DS off the truck. My vibration started around 50mph & went away above 65. The vibration was coming through the floor.

My steering wheel vibration when away after I replaced my steering rack bushings.

 

[theesotericone]

For the record- without changing ANYTHING else- when I got new wheels and tires, my vibration went away 100%.

Same here. Not even a slight shake since getting new rims and tires. I chased that dragon for about 9 months before I could afford the new rim/tire combo. It had to be something else right? All 4 tires where balanced correctly and verified on a number of occasions. Alignment was spot on perfect. I pulled the driveshafts and had them tested. Both where balanced and in good shape. I changed bushings all around. I still had that damn shimmy at 65MPH. Then one day I got my new tires and rims balanced. I came home and mounted them. I went for a drive. WTF? No shimmy at all.

It's been that way ever since. I've increased my front lift height by 3/4". I've gone to 861's which bought the rear up about 1.5". I've beaten it hard and fast on the trails. Still shimmy free.

 

[Cree]

Check your front axles, make sure they're seated properly.

 

[thezentree]

Cree I will check that this morning.

On the subject of driveshafts, if that's the problem is it the angle that is causing the vibration or is it just making worn components more apparent? From the reading I've done on this, it sounds like when the driveshaft is the culprit a new/rebuilt driveshaft will alleviate the vibration, but is that the cure or a bandaid? In other words, is the increased angle going to prematurely wear a new driveshaft?

 

[96RedRunner]

Cree I will check that this morning.
In other words, is the increased angle going to prematurely wear a new driveshaft?

Cree made good point. As for lift causing premature wear, in my case 100k mi on LC 8 wraps no problems, had Daystar lift prior to that for 200k mi. The rear dif Ujoint did give out last year, my fault, neglect during 10-15 thru 3-16 hunting season, lot of washing without greasing, was original ujoint so thats a lot of miles with lift.

 

[Badmotorfinger]

Had to get my new tires balanced 4 times before they got it right.

If you have new tires I would focus on that before anything.

 

[96RedRunner]

Had to get my new tires balanced 4 times before they got it right.
If you have new tires I would focus on that before anything.

Been there! Have had to go as far as deflating tire, bust bead lose, rotate tire on rim 90' at a time, rebalance, try it. Really only applies if you have a rim/tire using a lot of weight to get balanced. Going to a shop using the road force capable machines could make a difference also.

 

[thezentree]

Well, front axles are fully seated.

I had the tires rebalanced this morning with a road force balancer, with no change in vibration. The tech said they were already pretty much good to go.

Taking the wheel spacers off the front made no difference in vibrations.

I dropped the tire pressure from 40psi (really tire shop?) to 30psi and drove around for a few minutes and the vibration seems a little bit less harsh and it seems to start at a slightly lower speed, but that's completely subjective.

I'm leaning towards the wheels and tires being out of whack, but I'm going to go pull the rear driveshaft and see if there's any play in the DC joint with it out of the truck.

 

[96RedRunner]

I'm leaning towards the wheels and tires being out of whack.

Looks like you have a direction to go I'd say.
Point A: Rim surface to spacer, spacer to disc.
Point B: CV axle shaft locked.
Ends of the spectum, between those two points are two true surfaces both sides, that rust can interfere with.
Rotor to Hub: Could fit cause problems?
Kentuc snow/rust belt??
What condition were surfaces in?
Did you remove rotors during job? Rust?
Mine required deep clean wire brush on die grinder, hub a mess. Don't live in rust belt far from it.

 

[thezentree]

Looks like you have a direction to go I'd say.
Point A: Rim surface to spacer, spacer to disc.
Point B: CV axle shaft locked.
Ends of the spectum, between those two points are two true surfaces both sides, that rust can interfere with.
Rotor to Hub: Could fit cause problems?
Kentuc snow/rust belt??
What condition were surfaces in?
Did you remove rotors during job? Rust?
Mine required deep clean wire brush on die grinder, hub a mess. Don't live in rust belt far from it.

There was some slight surface rust, but no buildup by any means. Certainly less than my Sierra. This 4Runner came from Charleston, SC in April so it's not been exposed to road salt ...yet :/

Once again I'm starting to lean towards the driveshaft being the culprit. I pulled the driveshaft earlier and while there wasn't any slop in the double cardan joint, it wasn't tight at all and was bone dry. I must have missed the grease zerk when I greased the driveshaft last time. I read that if you can see the bearing surface in the cardan ball, the joint is shot - and I can see it plain as day.

Greasing the driveshaft and the DC joint in particular seemed to soften the vibration for a few highway miles but it's back again and I've noticed it's there very subtly at around 45mph and it comes and goes based on throttle.

 

[thezentree]

By the way, I want to say that I appreciate everyone's input. It's all been super helpful.