BFG All-Terrain T/A KO2 went on sale today

[Nostrathomas]

After reading almost the entire thread I'm still confused on the C/D/E issue.

My 4RTEP is 48hrs old with 30m. I'm about to go DT for KO LT275 /70 R17 121R E1 RWL for about $975 before haggling over credit for old tires.

I drive in the city, fish and hunt in the mountains, What's to right load?

 

[ToyoDriver]

After reading almost the entire thread I'm still confused on the C/D/E issue.

My 4RTEP is 48hrs old with 30m. I'm about to go DT for KO LT275 /70 R17 121R E1 RWL for about $975 before haggling over credit for old tires.

I drive in the city, fish and hunt in the mountains, What's to right load?

See my posts from yesterday about the E load tires in the WHAT did you do to your 5th gen today.

I returned my 275 E tires to DT for 265 C load the next day because the Es made my 4 runner ride like an empty dump truck. We measured with a tape measure and it was 0.5" difference in diameter.

The issue I'm having now is, of course, the steering wheel shimmy is back because DT used a cone instead of a haweka.

 

[e60ral]

They are load ratings, but more relevant to why people want E is 1) more sidewall ply makes it more resistant to cuts and punctures and 2) E is only option in some sizes. You are looking at E, it's technically more tire than you need based on load ratings but that's not a problem. Ride will be a little firmer because tires will be harder and expect to lose 1mpg (mpg loss will be more with E than C due to higher weight, but not much different). In the size you want I think E is only option. I'm running C and are happy with them, when I start doing more trips off-road I'll probably get E rated in larger size.

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk

 

[Friggin Idiot]

Then, 5500 mile review

21kmi Update
4Runner mileage 51,340 (29,990 at install)
275/70R17 E Load, 13/32 Tread Remaining (15/32 New)

Conditions (estimated):
50% Rural Interstate (70+mph)
20% Urban Interstate (<70mph)
15% US & State Routes
14+% Surface/suburban Roads
<1% Light Offroad - gravel/dirt, washed out/overgrown formerly graded

Driving Style: Mostly Sedate, Occasionally Spirited

Inflation: 37psi
Rare driving at 35psi. Ride feels smoother at 35psi, but acceleration is more sluggish, turns feel slower, high speed cornering mushy with sway

MPG: 16.5 mixed, 16.8-17.0 if all highway
BP or Shell 10% ethanol blend, no ethanol-free gas available locally (I miss Oklahoma)

Traction/Handling:
I've noticed more slipping on wet asphalt than in the first review. Handled snow very well initially, almost like it was just rain. Handling on ice was great, although I've never had a dedicated winter tire on this truck for comparison. I'm sure now that's some of the tread has worn off they won't be quite as nice. I already have concerns about them in the rain as a sudden stop in the wet work parking lot the other day triggered ABS, when I'm not sure it would have previously.

Towing 1500-2500lb trailers: ~800 miles
Truck just feels planted when towing on paved roads, no sway or extra bounce. Very little squash on tire with trailer, mostly suspension sag (not yet towed with Air Lift installed). Tire has no problems with grip on concrete boat ramps, even steep ones.
Only complaint here was moving dad's 3600lb boat & trailer around his driveway. Driveway is hard packed dirt with 7-8% grade, tandem trailer has surge brakes on rear axle only. The KO2's slipped more than expected braking downhill and reversing uphill.

Ride:
Sadly hasn't smoothed out at all with the additional mileage. I feel like the ride has actually gotten rougher. I can only think this is due to more potholes on the road, and struts/shocks wearing more with the additional weight. Installed an Air Lift 1000 kit about 1 month and 1000 miles ago which smoothed out the rear ride a little bit, but did nothing for the front end.

Conclusion:
I like the appearance and traction of the tire, but think the E load is just too stiff for a daily driver unless you're in a much higher weight class than the 4Runner would ever be in. I've been debating about selling my set of KO2's and picking up the Discoverer AT/3 275's in C load instead.
(PM me if in Columbus OH area and interested in a good deal)

EDIT: 29Oct16 51,550 mi
Had a set of the Discoverer AT/3's in C load installed instead.

 

[wild_turkey]

After reading almost the entire thread I'm still confused on the C/D/E issue.

My 4RTEP is 48hrs old with 30m. I'm about to go DT for KO LT275 /70 R17 121R E1 RWL for about $975 before haggling over credit for old tires.

I drive in the city, fish and hunt in the mountains, What's to right load?

Did you already get your tires? If not, have DT price match the 4wheelparts.com deal. I got 4 KO2's, LT275/70R17 for $700 after rebate. Install was another $100 at Firestone. Good luck.

 

[415T4R]

Great review. We just got rain here in Nor Cal and I was hoping it wasn't just me that noticed the slipping in the rain. Thank you for the snow and ice notes, planning on getting to Tahoe this winter and makes me feel much more comfortable about those conditions.

Also, I have load range C and it drives, and gets me pretty much the same mileage as you did below.

Then, 5500 mile review

21kmi Update
4Runner mileage 51,340 (29,990 at install)
275/70R17 E Load, 13/32 Tread Remaining (15/32 New)

Conditions (estimated):
50% Rural Interstate (70+mph)
20% Urban Interstate (<70mph)
15% US & State Routes
14+% Surface/suburban Roads
<1% Light Offroad - gravel/dirt, washed out/overgrown formerly graded

Driving Style: Mostly Sedate, Occasionally Spirited

Inflation: 37psi
Rare driving at 35psi. Ride feels smoother at 35psi, but acceleration is more sluggish, turns feel slower, high speed cornering mushy with sway

MPG: 16.5 mixed, 16.8-17.0 if all highway
BP or Shell 10% ethanol blend, no ethanol-free gas available locally (I miss Oklahoma)

Traction/Handling:
I've noticed more slipping on wet asphalt than in the first review. Handles snow very well, almost like it was just rain. Handling on ice is some of the best I've ever experienced.

Towing 1500-2500lb trailers: ~800 miles
Truck just feels planted when towing on paved roads, no sway or extra bounce. Very little squash on tire with trailer, mostly suspension sag (not yet towed with Air Lift installed). Tire has no problems with grip on concrete boat ramps, even steep ones.
Only complaint here was moving dad's 3600lb boat & trailer around his driveway. Driveway is hard packed dirt with 7-8% grade, tandem trailer has surge brakes on rear axle only. The KO2's slipped more than expected braking downhill and reversing uphill.

Ride:
Sadly hasn't smoothed out at all with the additional mileage. I feel like the ride has actually gotten rougher. I can only think this is due to more potholes on the road, and struts/shocks wearing more with the additional weight. Installed an Air Lift 1000 kit about 1 month and 1000 miles ago which smoothed out the rear ride a little bit, but did nothing for the front end.

Conclusion:
I like the appearance and traction of the tire, but think the E load is just too stiff for a daily driver unless you're in a much higher weight class than the 4Runner would ever be in. I've been debating about selling my set of KO2's and picking up the Discoverer AT/3 275's in C load instead.
(PM me if in Columbus OH area and interested in a good deal)

 

[TrailCO]

The Costco in Eagle CO in the mountains told me if I wanted a larger size on my TRD Pro they would do it, I haven't purchased tires yet but have been told when I'm ready they will do 275/70/17 KO2's when I'm ready


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm in Eagle! Although I had the shop in Frisco install mine...

 

[Nostrathomas]

Done and dusted, no rub, looks great.

 

[Throwback]

I've been nerding out on tires so thought I'd share some info I just came across.

The issues people seem to have with the KO2s are harsh ride and poor wet traction. I have a hypothesis that those issues are related to either running a Load Range E tire, or running too high of air pressure.

I've studied the http://www.toyota-4runner.org/engines-suspension-wheels-tires-audio-accessories/40803-lt-vs-p-inflation-article.html and the charts show that a stock P-metric tire holds appx 2200lbs at 32psi. A stock size LT: C tire would then need to be 44psi to hold appx 2200lbs.

In my '14 TE 44psi rides very harsh and I can see 1.5" of daylight under either side of the tread at rest. I figured that could be one of the factors leading to poor wet traction and obviously it causes the bumpy ride.


Anyway, I found the Discount Tire Load Inflation Table document which I have attached. Following the instructions I came to the following data points.

Stock P265/70/17 Dunlop Grandtrek: 113 Service Description, 32psi per door placard
Load Inflation Chart says 113 @ 32psi = 2299lbs

BFG LT265/70/17 Load Range:C KO2: 112 Service Description, "X" psi
Load Inflation Chart says 112 @ 2336lbs = 34psi


So, using this chart I am at the same tire load rating at 34psi in the LR:C KO2 in 265/70/17 as I am on the stock Dunlops at 32psi.

Can anyone confirm if this is accurate or not, since it does not jive with the data in that other thread?

 

[brian0128]

I've been nerding out on tires so thought I'd share some info I just came across.

The issues people seem to have with the KO2s are harsh ride and poor wet traction. I have a hypothesis that those issues are related to either running a Load Range E tire, or running too high of air pressure.

I've studied the http://www.toyota-4runner.org/engines-suspension-wheels-tires-audio-accessories/40803-lt-vs-p-inflation-article.html and the charts show that a stock P-metric tire holds appx 2200lbs at 32psi. A stock size LT: C tire would then need to be 44psi to hold appx 2200lbs.

In my '14 TE 44psi rides very harsh and I can see 1.5" of daylight under either side of the tread at rest. I figured that could be one of the factors leading to poor wet traction and obviously it causes the bumpy ride.


Anyway, I found the Discount Tire Load Inflation Table document which I have attached. Following the instructions I came to the following data points.

Stock P265/70/17 Dunlop Grandtrek: 113 Service Description, 32psi per door placard
Load Inflation Chart says 113 @ 32psi = 2299lbs

BFG LT265/70/17 Load Range:C KO2: 112 Service Description, "X" psi
Load Inflation Chart says 112 @ 2336lbs = 34psi


So, using this chart I am at the same tire load rating at 34psi in the LR:C KO2 in 265/70/17 as I am on the stock Dunlops at 32psi.

Can anyone confirm if this is accurate or not, since it does not jive with the data in that other thread?

I just purchased BFG LT265/70/17 Load Range:C KO2 and called BFG at their 800#. They told me stock tires at 32psi were @ 2425lbs.

 

[Friggin Idiot]

I've been nerding out on tires so thought I'd share some info I just came across.

The issues people seem to have with the KO2s are harsh ride and poor wet traction. I have a hypothesis that those issues are related to either running a Load Range E tire, or running too high of air pressure.

I've studied the http://www.toyota-4runner.org/engines-suspension-wheels-tires-audio-accessories/40803-lt-vs-p-inflation-article.html and the charts show that a stock P-metric tire holds appx 2200lbs at 32psi. A stock size LT: C tire would then need to be 44psi to hold appx 2200lbs.

In my '14 TE 44psi rides very harsh and I can see 1.5" of daylight under either side of the tread at rest. I figured that could be one of the factors leading to poor wet traction and obviously it causes the bumpy ride.


Anyway, I found the Discount Tire Load Inflation Table document which I have attached.

Nice find on the chart!
For reference the MaxGVWR for the truck is 6450lbs, split 3000/3450 front/rear (inside driver door jamb). Split that between one tire for each side and you're looking at a load of 1500/1725lbs static load for each front/rear tire at MaxGVWR.
A 2200lb capacity would be the dynamic load ability of the tire, the ability to absorb the static weight plus momentum of impact at about 125% of the static load. The higher the capacity of the tire to carry over the static load, the more impact it can absorb. Hence when you air down tires for off-road, you tend not to go running baja style over the rocks least you end up unseating your tire bead on the trail. This can be mitigated by bead lockers, but I have yet to see someone run a real set of those things on a street legal vehicle.

As for the BFG KO2 wet traction issues, I believe it has more to do with the harder natural rubber compound used over the air pressure. Although an air pressure too high would certainly have a smaller contact patch and hence less area to grip with as well. Although everything has a trade off, so your mileage would improve slightly with the higher pressure (less friction from smaller contact patch).

Ride was too rough for me, but I was on the LT/E instead of stock LT/C size.

 

[00Sebby]

I've been nerding out on tires so thought I'd share some info I just came across.

The issues people seem to have with the KO2s are harsh ride and poor wet traction. I have a hypothesis that those issues are related to either running a Load Range E tire, or running too high of air pressure.

I've studied the http://www.toyota-4runner.org/engines-suspension-wheels-tires-audio-accessories/40803-lt-vs-p-inflation-article.html and the charts show that a stock P-metric tire holds appx 2200lbs at 32psi. A stock size LT: C tire would then need to be 44psi to hold appx 2200lbs.

In my '14 TE 44psi rides very harsh and I can see 1.5" of daylight under either side of the tread at rest. I figured that could be one of the factors leading to poor wet traction and obviously it causes the bumpy ride.


Anyway, I found the Discount Tire Load Inflation Table document which I have attached. Following the instructions I came to the following data points.

Stock P265/70/17 Dunlop Grandtrek: 113 Service Description, 32psi per door placard
Load Inflation Chart says 113 @ 32psi = 2299lbs

BFG LT265/70/17 Load Range:C KO2: 112 Service Description, "X" psi
Load Inflation Chart says 112 @ 2336lbs = 34psi


So, using this chart I am at the same tire load rating at 34psi in the LR:C KO2 in 265/70/17 as I am on the stock Dunlops at 32psi.

Can anyone confirm if this is accurate or not, since it does not jive with the data in that other thread?

In step #2 of their charts it says "Select correct inflation table". If you scroll on down to the 3rd page you will see the C Load Range Chart. It puts you back up to 45 psi to hit the load you are referencing.

 

[Throwback]

Good catch. Looks like I can't read a simple document. :ybrick:

I'm curious about the comment made by [MENTION=114796]brian0128[/MENTION] that BFG customer service said the LR:C tires are 2425lbs at 32psi. That doesn't jive with anything else I've seen.

Does anyone have any feedback on running the KO2s at 40-45psi for 50,000+ miles? I wonder how the wear is running them higher.

 

[brian0128]

Good catch. Looks like I can't read a simple document. :ybrick:



I'm curious about the comment made by [MENTION=114796]brian0128[/MENTION] that BFG customer service said the LR:C tires are 2425lbs at 32psi. That doesn't jive with anything else I've seen.



Does anyone have any feedback on running the KO2s at 40-45psi for 50,000+ miles? I wonder how the wear is running them higher.

The 2425lbs was for the factory Dunlops at 32psi according to the rep. She wouldn't email me anything but gave me the following load inflation numbers for 265/70-17 Load Range C KO2's.

40psi 2075lbs
45psi 2255lbs
50psi 2470lbs
55psi 2595lbs
60psi 2760lbs.

Her recommended psi was 45psi and she wouldn't give me numbers any lower because she said it wouldn't support the weight of the vehicle safely.

Curb weight is 4750 and GVWR is 6300. Using 6300/4=1575lbs per tire. This tells me I could go as low as 38psi safely.

 

[Rhino11]

Current BFG promo

Anyone looking to purchase KO2s, they are running a promotion through the 11/27. $70 Mastercard Reward Card with purchase of 4 BFG Light Truck Tires from participating dealer or $50 card with purchase of 4 passenger tires. Must go online to submit receipt.

 

[Throwback]

The 2425lbs was for the factory Dunlops at 32psi according to the rep. She wouldn't email me anything but gave me the following load inflation numbers for 265/70-17 Load Range C KO2's.

40psi 2075lbs
45psi 2255lbs
50psi 2470lbs
55psi 2595lbs
60psi 2760lbs.

Her recommended psi was 45psi and she wouldn't give me numbers any lower because she said it wouldn't support the weight of the vehicle safely.

Curb weight is 4750 and GVWR is 6300. Using 6300/4=1575lbs per tire. This tells me I could go as low as 38psi safely.

Ok, that makes more sense. I misunderstood you.

I filled up to 46psi daytime temps (my gauge ticks are on even numbers and I'm OCD like that). For curiosity I left the truck outside last night and just checked the psi this morning at 40F ambient. The tires were all at 42psi.

It rides fine to me and from what I've read the BFGs don't tend to balloon across the tread face causing premature center wear at those pressures.

It is amazing to me how many guys are running around with their LR:C LT tires at 32-34psi. Does anyone know of an actual blowout caused by low tire pressure in a newish tire? I read all the time about guys airing down their BFGs on Jeeps and Toyotas to run trails and then running those low pressures on the highway all the way home.

 

[engineeer]

Traction/Handling:
I've noticed more slipping on wet asphalt than in the first review. Handled snow very well initially, almost like it was just rain. Handling on ice was great, although I've never had a dedicated winter tire on this truck for comparison. I'm sure now that's some of the tread has worn off they won't be quite as nice. I already have concerns about them in the rain as a sudden stop in the wet work parking lot the other day triggered ABS, when I'm not sure it would have previously.

Does anyone else feel the same way?

I have the KO2s in 275/55/20 (albeit on a RRS not a 4R) w/ ~8k miles and they've been amazing in the rain, snow, and ok on ice (just this past weekend in the mountains). I'm a little surprised that yours are having issues--wonder if it might be an inflation/suspension thing.

 

[Friggin Idiot]

Does anyone else feel the same way?

I have the KO2s in 275/55/20 (albeit on a RRS not a 4R) w/ ~8k miles and they've been amazing in the rain, snow, and ok on ice (just this past weekend in the mountains). I'm a little surprised that yours are having issues--wonder if it might be an inflation/suspension thing.

They were great, until that first 2/32 of tread wore away. After that the traction wasn't as impressive. It was most noticeable on sealed asphalt that had no standing water but was still wet. It became concerning when I realized just how much of that I drive on a regular basis. I've since switched to the Cooper Discoverer AT3's in 275 C load and been impressed. The switch was as much for the rough ride from E tires lightly loaded as it was the damp traction. Tires were inflated at 37psi as I was running pretty much me and my lunch as a daily driver. The issues were certainly lessened under more weight, like 500lbs of guns, ammo, and gear in the back for a week in the woods. Suspension was stock except for the air lift bags in the rear, which smoothed out the rear axle nicely.

 

[jamesq]

BFG TA/KO2 1500miles feeling

Installed 4 new ko2 oem size from discount tire last December, $160 each. After 1500 miles driving, my several feelings:

1. Noise- slightly higher low pitch noise both low and high speeds. But totally acceptable. This is my biggest concern before buying my first AT tires..
2. MPG- 80% city, 20% highway. Combine MPG from 19.1 dropped to 18.0
3. Acceleration- I didn't feel any difference compared to oem dunlop
4. Looks- No need to say anything...

Still waiting for the 1st real trip to justify BFG's real capability..

 

[Vinsil]

I've put 2000 miles on my 275's.....very similar results however, they rock in the snow! I'm super happy.